[tomtom]

This oil (RS200 10w60 synthetic, AUDI, BMW longlife 98, Porsche) was in my car before my last oil change and the oil level remain the same for 7000km.

My next oil change, my mechanic went with 5-40 synthetic and I went through 1/2 litres in 3 weeks, but did 4 1/4 mile runs. not sure if this would accelerate oil loss.

So, i am thinkin of going back to 10w60.

Does anyone think 10w60 is too thick for 335i running tune (maybe in summer only). I know the M3 uses 10w60.

Specs:
ACEA:A3/B3/B4-98=>01
API: SL/ SJ/CF
M.Bp 229.1/229.3, VW 502/505 VW 503.01
AUDI, BMW longlife 98, Porsche

HI-TEC 3000 Fully Synthetic
SAE 10W-60, 5W-50, 5W-40, 0W-40, 0W-30
It belongs to the latest technology synthetic lubricants for engines 100% synthetic compound with
special synthetic materials for stability and excellent behaviour under hard drive conditions granding
at the same time more longer oil change periods, supporting excellent protection to the engines
compatible or turbo type of high output engines under any condition. It secures the longest life of
the catalyst without diminution of its counter friction and counter oxidization properties.

[Robertbog]

stock 5w30 FTMFW!

[O-cha]

I hear 75w90 is pretty good.

[tomtom]

Almost forgot the review, here it is:

Good advice is hard to come by so, here's some more!

Surely the thicker the oil the better!

This isn't always true - even when using a petroleum oil. Although it is true that heavier viscosity oils (which are generally thought of as being thicker) will hold up better under heavy loads and high temperatures, this doesn't necessarily make them a better choice for all applications.

On many newer vehicles only 0w-40, 5w40 or 10w40 engine oils are recommended by the manufacturer. If you choose to use a higher viscosity oil than what is recommended, at the very least you are likely to reduce performance of the engine. Fuel economy will likely go down and engine performance will drop.

In the winter months it is highly recommended that you not use a heavier grade oil than what is recommended by the manufacturer. In cold start conditions you could very well be causing more engine wear than when using a lighter viscosity oil.

In the summer months, going to a heavier grade is less of an issue, but there are still some things to be aware of.

Moving one grade up from the recommended viscosity is not likely to cause any problems (say from a 10w40 to a 10w50 oil). The differences in pumping and flow resitance will be slight. Although, efficiency of the engine will decrease, the oil will likely still flow adequately through the engine to maintain proper protection. However, it will not likely protect any better than the lighter weight oil recommended by the manufacturer.

Moving two grades up from the recommended viscosity (say 10w40 to 10w-60) is a little more extreme and could cause long term engine damage if not short term. Although the oil will still probably flow ok through the engine, it is a heavier visocosity oil. As such it will be more difficult to pump the oil through the engine. More friction will be present than with a lighter viscosity oil. More friction will be present than with a lighter viscosity oil. More friction means more heat. In other words, by going to a thicker oil in the summer months, you may actually be causing more heat build-up within the engine. You'll still be providing adequate protection from metal to metal contact in the engine by going with a high viscosity, but the higher viscosity will raise engine temperatures.

In the short run, this is no big deal. However, over the long term, when engine components are run at higher temperatures, they WILL wear out more quickly. As such, if you intend on keeping the vehicle for awhile, keep this in mind if you're considering using a heavier weight oil than the manufacturer recommends.

The best advice is to is to stay away from viscosity grades that are not mentioned in your owner's manual.

If you're not sure than we can always help with a professional recommendation.


If you are running a car above the stock BHP with higher engine temperatures or in competition then use "true" synthetic oils for the best protection.

SAE has a test called HT/HS (High Temperature/High Shear) ASTM D4683 at 150 degC.

The higher the HT/HS number the better because this indicates less shearing. Petroleum oils tend to have low HT/HS numbers which barely meet the standards set by SAE. Because petroleum oils are made with light weight basestocks to begin with, they tend to burn off easily in high temperature conditions which causes deposit formation and oil consumption.
As a result of excessive oil burning and susceptibility to shearing (as well as other factors) petroleum oils must be changed more frequently than synthetics.

Not all multi-viscosity oils shear back so easily. True synthetic oils (PAO’s and Esters) contain basically no waxy contamination to cause crystallization and oil thickening at cold temperatures. In addition, synthetic basestocks do not thin out very much as temperatures increase. So, pour point depressants are unnecessary and higher viscosity basestock fluids can be used which will still meet the "W" requirements for pumpability.

Hence, little or no VI improver additive would need to be used to meet the sae 30, 40 or 50 classification while still meeting 0W or 5W requirements.

The end result is that very little shearing occurs within true synthetic oils because they are not "propped up" with viscosity index improvers. There simply is no place to shear back to. In fact, this is easy to prove by just comparing synthetic and petroleum oils of the same grade.

Synthetics will generally have significantly higher HT/HS numbers. Of course, the obvious result is that your oil remains "in grade" for a much longer period of time for better engine protection and longer oil life.

What is VI Improver?

As a lubricant basestock is subjected to increasing temperatures it tends to lose its viscosity. In other words, it thins out. This leads to decreased engine protection and a higher likelihood of metal to metal contact. Therefore, if this viscosity loss can be minimized, the probability of unnecessary engine wear will be reduced.

VI improvers are polymers that expand and contract with changes in temperature. At low temperatures they are very compact and affect the viscosity of a lubricant very little. But, at high temperatures these polymers "expand" into much larger long-chain polymers which significantly increase the viscosity of their host lubricant.

So, as the basestock loses viscosity with increases in temperature, VI improvers “fight back”
against the viscosity drop by increasing their size. The higher the molecular weight of the polymers used, the better the power of "thickening" within the lubricant. Unfortunately, an increase in molecular weight also leads to an inherent instability of the polymers themselves. They become much more prone to shearing within an engine.

As these polymers are sheared back to lower molecular weight molecules, their effectiveness as a VI improver decreases. Unfortunately, because petroleum basestocks are so prone to viscosity loss at high temperatures, high molecular weight polymers must be used. Since these polymers are more prone to shearing than lower molecular weight polymers, petroleum oils tend to shear back very quickly. In other words, they lose
their ability to maintain their viscosity at high temperatures.

Synthetic basestocks, on the other hand, are much less prone to viscosity loss at high temperatures. Therefore, lower molecular weight polymers may be used as VI improvers.

These polymers are less prone to shearing, so they are effective for a much longer period of time than the VI improvers used in petroleum oils. In other words, synthetic oils do not quickly lose their ability to maintain viscosity at high temperatures as petroleum oils do.

In fact, some synthetic basestocks are so stable at high temperatures they need NO VI improvers at all. Obviously, these basestocks will maintain their high temperature viscosities for a very long time since there are no VI improvers to break down.

Email us for a price list: sales@opieoils.co.uk

Cheers

[tomtom]

i found this post:
Track Report - Infineon - Use of 10-60W to cool car down

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Participated in the Audi Driver Safety Seminar this weekend...actually taught both days...my students were one lady in the C Group in a Cayman S...and another newbie in the A group in his uncles E30 325i dedicated track car..with R compounds. But, back to the important stuff..how did my car do with 10-60W TWS BMW Motorsport oil?

Well, I am happy to say it did much better that the stock oil. The highest I had seen before using this new oil was a session at Thunderhill at 275 and one at 280 for oil temps. With this new oil...I was at about 255 on every session..except one where I was behind someone alot ..and it got up to 270. BTW it was about 58 - 72 degrees out...when I was on track. I had 5 20-35 minute sessions on Saturday..and four 20 minutes sessions on Sunday.

So, my impressions are that the 10-60W Castrol TWS Motorsport oil..which I guess the M cars come with..is a serious contender as a option for oil for those who track their cars more than occasionally. I still dont know how this oil affects other day to day driving..so I want to say that the jury is still..but preliminary data is showing that this has helped keep oil temps down.

I will leave it in my car until late december and reassess whether or not I need to go back to a lighter viscosity for those colder months. I am in California..so it doesnt get very cold...but I think if this oil has issues..it is when the ambient air temp is very low.

Also, another OP indicated that Dinan recommended 10w60 TWS for 335i in 2007 June Bimmer magazine. Anyone have this article?

[Driver72]

Sounds like Molasses.
Probably great for track use, but don't know if I'd run that thick of oil in daily driving, cutting into performance, gas mileage. But that's just my opinion.

[thekurgan]

I think this article is relevant.

http://forums.roadfly.com/forums/bmw...8757823-4.html

[tomtom]

Originally Posted by thekurgan

I think this article is relevant.

http://forums.roadfly.com/forums/bmw...8757823-4.html

Thanks for the link. So, it might only be beneficial for track and/or during hot summer weather. And definitely not during colder winter weather.

[alan93rsa]

Coming from the air cooled Porsche side this whole oil temp issue is interesting. The normal temperature in the 335 would have been an issue with me in the 993. The oil in an air cooled Porsche probably does as much to cool the engine as the air.

The comments about heat transfer with a higher viscosity may bear merit. If the lower viscosity oil flows better then it may well be able to transfer more heat from the engine. Better flow should yield more contact time. It would be interesting to see the delta across the oil cooler.

Just my opinion.