[akgambino]

I have been chasing this issue down for nearly a year and was finally able to capture the problem in a datalog so figured I would start a thread and try to get some help.

- 2013 f30 335i xdrive 6mt pwg (34,000km)
Catless dp, afe pro dry panel filter, ngk plugs gapped to 0.02
Bootmod3 stage 2/91 octane
Lpfp recall has been done

The problem is hit or miss and intermittent, what happens is in the lower rpm range (say 2500 to 3000) applying moderate to heavy throttle the car shudders/stumbles (feels like the front end of the car is tripping over its own feet). It has happened in 3/4/5/6 gear and has been hard to replicate.

Now that I have finally captured this problem in a datalog it appears that when I applied moderate throttle in 5th gear around 2500rpm the dme called for the maximum load target and maximum boost target followed my a massive overboost/throttle closure along with pulling timing of all cylinders to severely negative values where they stayed until I let off the throttle a couple seconds later.

I can understand that going wot in low rpm and high gears is not a good thing but note this was not wot. Also, say if you have cruise control on and slow down and hit resume and are in 6th gear on the highway this issue will arise (very infrequent but it has happened in the past). Please don't tell me that you can't use more than 10% of the throttle in this rpm range with this setup, I am looking for drivability and if my car hates having the throttle applied between 2500-3500rpm in 3/4/5/6 gear we have a major problem as that is where 99% of driving a car occurs.

I'm in no way saying this is solely a bm3 issue, I had this problem with jb4 on map 1 and map 5 as well. Why does my car not play nice in this rpm range? Further, I can almost sense when the car is going to do this if I apply some moderate throttle if I am just cruising in this lower rpm range it just feels like it is building itself up to sneeze and just feels a little rough while cruising, I can slowly give it some pedal and almost gear the car telling me "whoa man take it easy you know I'm bout to shit the bed here".

A couple odd things to note:
- when I first flashed to bm3 about a month ago it was v4 and the car immediately felt like the smoothest it ever felt and it never stumbled. It also never had throttle closures under wot. But... as the days went by it slowly seemed to relearn it's old ways and the stumble came back. That's when I installed the ngk plugs gapped to 0.02 and immediately again noticed wow this thing is driving amazing!!! No stumbles and no feeling like it was about to sneeze at lower rpm! Thought my problem was finally solved and chalked it up to the plugs... guess again fast forward one day and I could feel it had the urge to stumble so plugged in the laptop and that's when I got the log with the massive timing pull/throttle closure shudder/stumble
- very often if the car would not fill out shudder/stumble in the same lower rpm range it would vibrate briefly as if it is just a more mild example of this shudder issue caused by massive timing pulls and high dme load request.
- this issue does not happen on stock flash

Shudder/stumble log:
http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5acea661d10b4354218d2ad5

3/4 gear wot log (this log was with 91 octane + Liqui Moly octane booster):
http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5acebef9d10b4354218d2af8

Note there are no major timing pulls in the wot log likely because it started above 3000rpm.

Please if there are any experts out there who can chime in and help me troubleshoot this issue it would be greatly appreciated. The car is very jekyl and Hyde, don't get me wrong the bm3 tune is pretty amazing (sometimes) but I don't feel confident applying throttle in this rpm range and feel as though this car is more than capable of being used like a normal car and being able to give it some gas at 2500rpm on the highway should not be such a tall order (oh and it seems to do it just fine stock

I have submit a support ticket to bootmod3 but have not had much discussion or assistance thus far from them. I understand this overboost/throttle closure issue is widespread amongst all of the bm3 pwg n55 guys at the moment and I am sure they are working on a solution for that but what I want to know is if that is part of the problem that is also causing the massive timing pulls that appear to be leading to this shudder!

Thanks!

[Bimmertodd88]

Originally Posted by akgambino

I have been chasing this issue down for nearly a year and was finally able to capture the problem in a datalog so figured I would start a thread and try to get some help.

- 2013 f30 335i xdrive 6mt pwg (34,000km)
Catless dp, afe pro dry panel filter, ngk plugs gapped to 0.02
Bootmod3 stage 2/91 octane
Lpfp recall has been done

The problem is hit or miss and intermittent, what happens is in the lower rpm range (say 2500 to 3000) applying moderate to heavy throttle the car shudders/stumbles (feels like the front end of the car is tripping over its own feet). It has happened in 3/4/5/6 gear and has been hard to replicate.

Now that I have finally captured this problem in a datalog it appears that when I applied moderate throttle in 5th gear around 2500rpm the dme called for the maximum load target and maximum boost target followed my a massive overboost/throttle closure along with pulling timing of all cylinders to severely negative values where they stayed until I let off the throttle a couple seconds later.

I can understand that going wot in low rpm and high gears is not a good thing but note this was not wot. Also, say if you have cruise control on and slow down and hit resume and are in 6th gear on the highway this issue will arise (very infrequent but it has happened in the past). Please don't tell me that you can't use more than 10% of the throttle in this rpm range with this setup, I am looking for drivability and if my car hates having the throttle applied between 2500-3500rpm in 3/4/5/6 gear we have a major problem as that is where 99% of driving a car occurs.

I'm in no way saying this is solely a bm3 issue, I had this problem with jb4 on map 1 and map 5 as well. Why does my car not play nice in this rpm range? Further, I can almost sense when the car is going to do this if I apply some moderate throttle if I am just cruising in this lower rpm range it just feels like it is building itself up to sneeze and just feels a little rough while cruising, I can slowly give it some pedal and almost gear the car telling me "whoa man take it easy you know I'm bout to shit the bed here".

A couple odd things to note:
- when I first flashed to bm3 about a month ago it was v4 and the car immediately felt like the smoothest it ever felt and it never stumbled. It also never had throttle closures under wot. But... as the days went by it slowly seemed to relearn it's old ways and the stumble came back. That's when I installed the ngk plugs gapped to 0.02 and immediately again noticed wow this thing is driving amazing!!! No stumbles and no feeling like it was about to sneeze at lower rpm! Thought my problem was finally solved and chalked it up to the plugs... guess again fast forward one day and I could feel it had the urge to stumble so plugged in the laptop and that's when I got the log with the massive timing pull/throttle closure shudder/stumble
- very often if the car would not fill out shudder/stumble in the same lower rpm range it would vibrate briefly as if it is just a more mild example of this shudder issue caused by massive timing pulls and high dme load request.
- this issue does not happen on stock flash

Shudder/stumble log:
http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5acea661d10b4354218d2ad5

3/4 gear wot log (this log was with 91 octane + Liqui Moly octane booster):
http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5acebef9d10b4354218d2af8

Note there are no major timing pulls in the wot log likely because it started above 3000rpm.

Please if there are any experts out there who can chime in and help me troubleshoot this issue it would be greatly appreciated. The car is very jekyl and Hyde, don't get me wrong the bm3 tune is pretty amazing (sometimes) but I don't feel confident applying throttle in this rpm range and feel as though this car is more than capable of being used like a normal car and being able to give it some gas at 2500rpm on the highway should not be such a tall order (oh and it seems to do it just fine stock

I have submit a support ticket to bootmod3 but have not had much discussion or assistance thus far from them. I understand this overboost/throttle closure issue is widespread amongst all of the bm3 pwg n55 guys at the moment and I am sure they are working on a solution for that but what I want to know is if that is part of the problem that is also causing the massive timing pulls that appear to be leading to this shudder!

Thanks!

My car which has vrsf upgraded chargepipe and catless downpipe and hd core intercoole has been doing the same thing ever since I went stage 2 on bootmod3. Stage one was fine for me and car was driving good and now stage 2 I feel like my car drives like shit. My car really doesn't like me cruising at 80 mph and in stop and go traffic it shutters and stumbles so I know what you mean. My car is stage 2 93 octane ewg. My car also still has the cel with the dme saying my car is running too rich so I don't know what is going on but I said screw it and now going with a custom tune because yeah I'm not trusting this lol just waiting on the tuner but in the mean time I might flash back to stage one tonight and see if it continues

[the dope steez]

I know the last thing you probably want to do is throw more money at the problem - but I'm thinking a custom tune through one of BM3's tuners might help? Then you can work directly with an expert tuner to nail down the right tune for your car.
There doesn't seem to be anything inherently wrong with your motor since it runs fine stock...

I plan to go this route as well soon, I think it will end up being better for the longevity of the car, I'd like to own this car at least to 100,000 miles

[Bimmertodd88]

Originally Posted by the dope steez

I know the last thing you probably want to do is throw more money at the problem - but I'm thinking a custom tune through one of BM3's tuners might help? Then you can work directly with an expert tuner to nail down the right tune for your car.
There doesn't seem to be anything inherently wrong with your motor since it runs fine stock...

I plan to go this route as well soon, I think it will end up being better for the longevity of the car, I'd like to own this car at least to 100,000 miles

Yeah that's what I'm doing. I'm going through bimmer performance center because I have been following them for a while so I know their work

[ceedawg]

Wow sorry to hear. So pro tuners has not done anything about this yet/ Wow!

[F30-XP-DM]

I am actually experiencing the same shuddering after going BM3 stage 2. Stage 1 was significantly smoother overall for me. I haven't gotten the chance to log, so in the meantime I was also considering flashing back to stock. Flashing back to stock is purely based on longevity of the car for me.

[Bimmertodd88]

Originally Posted by akgambino

I have been chasing this issue down for nearly a year and was finally able to capture the problem in a datalog so figured I would start a thread and try to get some help.

- 2013 f30 335i xdrive 6mt pwg (34,000km)
Catless dp, afe pro dry panel filter, ngk plugs gapped to 0.02
Bootmod3 stage 2/91 octane
Lpfp recall has been done

The problem is hit or miss and intermittent, what happens is in the lower rpm range (say 2500 to 3000) applying moderate to heavy throttle the car shudders/stumbles (feels like the front end of the car is tripping over its own feet). It has happened in 3/4/5/6 gear and has been hard to replicate.

Now that I have finally captured this problem in a datalog it appears that when I applied moderate throttle in 5th gear around 2500rpm the dme called for the maximum load target and maximum boost target followed my a massive overboost/throttle closure along with pulling timing of all cylinders to severely negative values where they stayed until I let off the throttle a couple seconds later.

I can understand that going wot in low rpm and high gears is not a good thing but note this was not wot. Also, say if you have cruise control on and slow down and hit resume and are in 6th gear on the highway this issue will arise (very infrequent but it has happened in the past). Please don't tell me that you can't use more than 10% of the throttle in this rpm range with this setup, I am looking for drivability and if my car hates having the throttle applied between 2500-3500rpm in 3/4/5/6 gear we have a major problem as that is where 99% of driving a car occurs.

I'm in no way saying this is solely a bm3 issue, I had this problem with jb4 on map 1 and map 5 as well. Why does my car not play nice in this rpm range? Further, I can almost sense when the car is going to do this if I apply some moderate throttle if I am just cruising in this lower rpm range it just feels like it is building itself up to sneeze and just feels a little rough while cruising, I can slowly give it some pedal and almost gear the car telling me "whoa man take it easy you know I'm bout to shit the bed here".

A couple odd things to note:
- when I first flashed to bm3 about a month ago it was v4 and the car immediately felt like the smoothest it ever felt and it never stumbled. It also never had throttle closures under wot. But... as the days went by it slowly seemed to relearn it's old ways and the stumble came back. That's when I installed the ngk plugs gapped to 0.02 and immediately again noticed wow this thing is driving amazing!!! No stumbles and no feeling like it was about to sneeze at lower rpm! Thought my problem was finally solved and chalked it up to the plugs... guess again fast forward one day and I could feel it had the urge to stumble so plugged in the laptop and that's when I got the log with the massive timing pull/throttle closure shudder/stumble
- very often if the car would not fill out shudder/stumble in the same lower rpm range it would vibrate briefly as if it is just a more mild example of this shudder issue caused by massive timing pulls and high dme load request.
- this issue does not happen on stock flash

Shudder/stumble log:
http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5acea661d10b4354218d2ad5

3/4 gear wot log (this log was with 91 octane + Liqui Moly octane booster):
http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5acebef9d10b4354218d2af8

Note there are no major timing pulls in the wot log likely because it started above 3000rpm.

Please if there are any experts out there who can chime in and help me troubleshoot this issue it would be greatly appreciated. The car is very jekyl and Hyde, don't get me wrong the bm3 tune is pretty amazing (sometimes) but I don't feel confident applying throttle in this rpm range and feel as though this car is more than capable of being used like a normal car and being able to give it some gas at 2500rpm on the highway should not be such a tall order (oh and it seems to do it just fine stock

I have submit a support ticket to bootmod3 but have not had much discussion or assistance thus far from them. I understand this overboost/throttle closure issue is widespread amongst all of the bm3 pwg n55 guys at the moment and I am sure they are working on a solution for that but what I want to know is if that is part of the problem that is also causing the massive timing pulls that appear to be leading to this shudder!

Thanks!

Hey did so did you fix your problem? If not my problem wasn't the stage 2. I believe it to be my charge pipe that I upgraded to vrsf and had a bad installation. From what I know I installed my chargepipe and intercooler that day and after that that's when the problem started. I also staged 2 right after that so I thought it would be the time but I went back to stage 1 and it didn't change anything. I'm going to check the installation of the chargepipe and make sure the o rings were put on and everything is tight. That's what I been reading from another post who is having the same issue as us. Or me atleast if you fixed your issue.

[akgambino]

V7 just dropped today for us n55 pwg guys I flashed this morning and collected some datalogs.

Initial impression was that no matter how hard I tried to get the car to do the shudder/stumble in lower rpm to replicate my issue it just would not do it. I was watching the timing on laptop while doing so to see if I would get those nasty negative timing pulls and that didn't happen so... I believe that issue to be solved at the moment salute to our boy halim.

Before I get too excited about this I must say that the issue had always been somewhat hit/miss so we will see how it does moving forward.

Now the bad (or maybe it's not bad I dunno) the low rpm overboost and throttle closures are most definitely still in full effect. Dzenan reviewed my logs and basically said that's just how she blows bro, pwg. He also said a custom tune will likely help that out. For me I don't necessarily ride around wot everyday so this isn't the end of the world for me and is actually a part of how the car is designed so whatever.

Car feels pretty strong overall and smooth. V7 certainly has lost or displaced some of the torque down low but made its application a lot smoother so as to not cause the death shudder some of us have been experiencing, i would say that is just fine with me! I don't need my car demanding 500 wtq at 2500rpm and knocking the whole time and stumbling thank you very much. I am here for long term use of this car as a daily driver and not trying to drag race or anything.

Next steps for me will be to continue my search for actual 91 octane fuel in this shit hole of a province. I almost think some of my issues have been related to a bunk ass tank of gas or something as well. I am going to start supplementing with a touch of Boostane as well after I run through this tank of gas. Not looking to increase my octane to run the 93 tune but just make for damn sure I am at 91 minimum! Apparently boostane premium will increase 93 octane to 102 octane with the full can (16oz). I used a can of it last year on jb4 map 5 and it was a beast until it started misfiring like crazy and required way too much headache to tweak the jb4 settings and pid gain and whatever else to try to make it work better so I never tried it again but I assure u it is the real deal. Plan is to use 5oz at a time and stretch a bottle to last three fill ups (bottle costs me only $15 as I have the hookup here from someone with a big ass drum of it and he will just refill my can for me

[BunkerJ]

Good to hear they ironed out some of it. That's the key with PTF. People forget sometimes that OTS maps were just released, so they just need some time to get them all working. They are really overworked over there haha. Let us know how the custom tune works out for PWG.

[Bimmertodd88]

oh okay that is good your car is running better. My problem was the meth bung was loose as my installer didn't think to tighten it because he thought it already was. Mine definetly runs better but yeah i still feel the low end shutter and stuff but if thats how she blows then what ever. Just gotta last till my custom tune is done.

[akgambino]

Originally Posted by Bimmertodd88

oh okay that is good your car is running better. My problem was the meth bung was loose as my installer didn't think to tighten it because he thought it already was. Mine definetly runs better but yeah i still feel the low end shutter and stuff but if thats how she blows then what ever. Just gotta last till my custom tune is done.

Who are you getting a custom tune from? Did you explain these types of issues you wanted solved and were they confident they can fix?

[Bimmertodd88]

I'm getting my tune from bimmer performance center. It has been on pause because we were waiting for bootmod3 to send them my stock tune and now they are closed for the weekend so i will get back with them on monday and talk to them about what i want and stuff. He told me typically their stage 2 tune can get me 395w hp and 425w torque. Also said thats their tune keeping safety in mind and not pushing it to it's limits as i daily drive the car 30 miles each way to work so im fine with those numbers until i decide to go meth which is far down the line.

[akgambino]

Originally Posted by Bimmertodd88

I'm getting my tune from bimmer performance center. It has been on pause because we were waiting for bootmod3 to send them my stock tune and now they are closed for the weekend so i will get back with them on monday and talk to them about what i want and stuff. He told me typically their stage 2 tune can get me 395w hp and 425w torque. Also said thats their tune keeping safety in mind and not pushing it to it's limits as i daily drive the car 30 miles each way to work so im fine with those numbers until i decide to go meth which is far down the line.

Holay those are some bold numbers they are throwing out there for fbo pwg! I assume that is on 93 octane? Sorry read your previous post and you are ewg and 93!

[BunkerJ]

Originally Posted by akgambino

Holay those are some bold numbers they are throwing out there for fbo pwg! I assume that is on 93 octane? Sorry read your previous post and you are ewg and 93!

That's not too crazy I think. We are going to be pushing 350/350whp/wtq here soon on the N26.

[Bimmertodd88]

Originally Posted by akgambino

Holay those are some bold numbers they are throwing out there for fbo pwg! I assume that is on 93 octane? Sorry read your previous post and you are ewg and 93!

Yeah im ewg and 93 so it's not crazy and i cant wait. to be honest i dont feel the difference between stage 1 and 2. Even some of my coworkers who also have modified cars and are technicians do not notice the difference in power. So that bums me out a little but i know once i get the custom tune the car will be great until i get hungry again and go meth lol

[Wiz992]

Hi guys,

I know it's an old thread. But has anyone solved the shuddering issue ?. I'm running BM3 stage 91 Octane. The vibration at low throttle occurs only On stage 1 (91 Octane) and ACN91 - V7.1. When flashing to V6.4 or stock the issue is completely eliminated.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by Wiz992

Hi guys,

I know it's an old thread. But has anyone solved the shuddering issue ?. I'm running BM3 stage 91 Octane. The vibration at low throttle occurs only On stage 1 (91 Octane) and ACN91 - V7.1. When flashing to V6.4 or stock the issue is completely eliminated.

If you think its tune related take a video and email PTF support.

[Wiz992]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

If you think its tune related take a video and email PTF support.

Already did with logs. Still we're trying on different OTS maps but the issue is still present. Seems my car likes only V6.4

[akgambino]

Originally Posted by Wiz992

Hi guys,

I know it's an old thread. But has anyone solved the shuddering issue ?. I'm running BM3 stage 91 Octane. The vibration at low throttle occurs only On stage 1 (91 Octane) and ACN91 - V7.1. When flashing to V6.4 or stock the issue is completely eliminated.

7.1? Have you tried the most current 8.1 map?

[Wiz992]

Originally Posted by akgambino

7.1? Have you tried the most current 8.1 map?

V7.1 is the latest available OTS map for stage1/91 and ACN91(N55-EWG). However, they added an OTS map on my list which would be a part of the next update. But still the vibration is present

[akgambino]

Originally Posted by Wiz992

V7.1 is the latest available OTS map for stage1/91 and ACN91(N55-EWG). However, they added an OTS map on my list which would be a part of the next update. But still the vibration is present

Oh sorry I assumed you were pwg since this thread is regarding an issue on pwg.

[harkes]

Originally Posted by Wiz992

Hi guys,

I know it's an old thread. But has anyone solved the shuddering issue ?. I'm running BM3 stage 91 Octane. The vibration at low throttle occurs only On stage 1 (91 Octane) and ACN91 - V7.1. When flashing to V6.4 or stock the issue is completely eliminated.

Have you gapped your plugs? Try run stock gap