[Dave-ncl]

Am I right in thinking that there is no way to tell if a car has been mapped and then rolled back to stock? Would the stealers sell a car they knew had been mapped?

When I find the right 330d/335d, I want to avoid buying something that been tampered with in the past. My only strategy is an assumption, meaning, don't show an interest in cars with physical mods. People that map a car usually won't stop there. I know this isn't ideal as in the past i've read about people stripping cars before trading them in.

No sure what else I can do to ensure I buy a car with no skeletons in the closet.

Thank you

[Soul_Glo]

My indy once used his autologic diagnostic kit and told me the audi s3 I had bought had 7 flashes before my time. He said they were all failed flashes. I met him on the 7th one. The car was cheap but didn’t run right. Then he told me the 7th ecu write was some generic map. Put it back to stock and no problems after that.

My E92 ecu was sent to Germany when it required replacement. Data was read to ensure I don’t have a remap and the warranty claim put through. I was told any sign of a remap would mean a hefty bill. So BMW do have ways of checking.

[Tengocity]

You'll never be sure, as plenty folk use tuning boxes too, which you're never going to find evidence of.

I just wouldn't worry about it too much. My own car has been remapped from about 20k on the clock to the 110k on the clock now, and I've not had any issues, so if you're buying an approved used with low mileage I can't really see what the issue would be, as if there is an issue you'll have a warranty.

Only way to get full peace of mind is to buy new.

[MarkG_M5Comp]

I believe there is a difference between good and bad 'tuning'.

The car above with a 'generic map' is an example of bad which produced poor results and was therefore investigated. Unless there is an obvious problem the dealer won't look.

There is another example on the M3 forums right now where a guy bought an approved used M3/M4 and took it in complaining that the car was harsh and underivable. The dealer updated the vehicle software and handed it back without reporting any issues.

The owner then complained 'my car is now slower and less walk side than before - what happened'.

Dealer took it back in, connected the car to the German diagnostic system which ran a detailed analysis, spotting a mismatch with original configuration due to a remap; immediately the owner was informed his warranty is now 'compromised'.

So they won't notice when having a quick look but deeper diagnostics will pick it up.

(The M3/M4 owner got a full refund on the car BTW!)

[Watsey]

As above really, but there's also an important difference in the approach of the owner/driver.

Some drivers with a PCP will stick a tuning box on the car, turn it up to 11, slap on some cheap non-OEM addenda, and take the approach of fuck it it's on a 2 year deal, I couldn't care less.

Others will pay more for a decent remap with custom parameters to ensure that major components dents aren't over-stressed, and will pay top Dollar for other mods i.e. suspension and brakes, and may well include intermediate oil changes in their care of the car which they own.

I'd probably try and avoid the first category, but it can be hard/impossible to tell which they are. But I would say that, as I'm in the second camp.

Buying new is the only guarantee of a 'clean' car (unless you personally know the owner/driver of a 2nd hand car).

[Dr Forinor]

Originally Posted by Watsey

Others will pay more for a decent remap with custom parameters to ensure that major components dents aren't over-stressed, and will pay top Dollar for other mods i.e. suspension and brakes, and may well include intermediate oil changes in their care of the car which they own.

This.

For my first remap of my current car I went to a reputable company, even though they were much more expensive than it's competitors in the understanding that my remap would not overstress my car. This remap didn't work so I had removed and went to another garage which I had good experience with, again with the thought in mind that they will look after my car - even though I could have got the remap cheaper elsewhere.

I got suspension changes done, again using expensive components to ensure good quality.

Brake upgrades, good quality.

I don't think it's necessarily true to say that if it's been remapped the owner will have abused the car. A remap releases the potential of the car and is much more enjoyable to drive, doesn't mean it's forever thrashed around.

I will never really go very hard in the car until I know the temperatures are good, and will cool the car down afterwards. And in fact I am fairly gentle with my car most of the time, only hard when I want to have a little play.

[teaston]

You should be able to tell by looking at the ECU as up until very recently the ECU had to be cracked open to remap it.

[MarkG_M5Comp]

Originally Posted by teaston

You should be able to tell by looking at the ECU as up until very recently the ECU had to be cracked open to remap it.

I don't know where the ECU is on an F30 but on the M3 it's mounted underneath the inlet manifold and I think the dealer may have an issue with you pulling apart the car for an inspection

[Watsey]

Originally Posted by MarkG_M3CP

I don't know where the ECU is on an F30 but on the M3 it's mounted underneath the inlet manifold and I think the dealer may have an issue with you pulling apart the car for an inspection

Very easy in the F3X : an enclosure on the near-side of the engine bay.

[Nobby Clark]

Why not ask the seller. They must tell you if you ask.

[Watsey]

Originally Posted by Nobby Clark

Why not ask the seller. They must tell you if you ask.

Not possible if it's UAC for example. Data protection.

[Nobby Clark]

Originally Posted by Watsey

Not possible if it's UAC for example. Data protection.

Data protection only applies to personal identifying data. For approved used, the responsibility would be on BMW to disclose material facts. The cam answer, “We day by know”, in which case, buyer beware. No difference to validating the car’s mileage.

[Watsey]

Originally Posted by Nobby Clark

Data protection only applies to personal identifying data. For approved used, the responsibility would be on BMW to disclose material facts. The cam answer, “We day by know”, in which case, buyer beware. No difference to validating the car’s mileage.

Agreed, but BMW is unlikely to know a UAC car's full history. Only the prior owner/driver will know that.

[JLR1969]

Originally Posted by Nobby Clark

Why not ask the seller. They must tell you if you ask.

Naïve to think everyone is as honest as you are.

[Nobby Clark]

Originally Posted by JLR1969

Naïve to think everyone is as honest as you are.

Naive not to get their answer in writing.

[DexGC]

Originally Posted by Nobby Clark

Naive not to get their answer in writing.

Answer in writing is worthless unless you can prove when the car was remapped.

[Nobby Clark]

Originally Posted by DexGC

Answer in writing is worthless unless you can prove when the car was remapped.

But priceless if you find the car was remapped.

The OP has asked how he can tell if a car has been remapped or not.
Assuming the ECU has not been replaced or opened, (in which case a visual inspection would confirm) Joe Public probaly can't tell.
If buying privately the only safety net you have is to ask the seller and trust his answer. Buyer beware.
If you buy from BMW, you might (naively) have more trust in his answer with the proviso BMW can tell if a car has been mapped.

Assume for moment, either party answer "no" and they are lying. The OP still wouldn't be any wiser unless something went wrong.
If something went wrong, the buyer would have to prove it was due to a remap. With BMW this could be straight forward - "What caused this problem?", "your car has been remaped mate"... happy days, your piece of paper is gold. With a private seller...buyer beware.


It depends why the OP wants to know. As others have said a remap is pretty risk free these days. If he wants to know to gauge if the car has been treated well, personally, I'd me more concerned about running in, if it was a lease car, etc etc.

[DexGC]

Originally Posted by Nobby Clark

But priceless if you find the car was remapped.

The OP has asked how he can tell if a car has been remapped or not.
Assuming the ECU has not been replaced or opened, (in which case a visual inspection would confirm) Joe Public probaly can't tell.
If buying privately the only safety net you have is to ask the seller and trust his answer. Buyer beware.
If you buy from BMW, you might (naively) have more trust in his answer with the proviso BMW can tell if a car has been mapped.

Assume for moment, either party answer "no" and they are lying. The OP still wouldn't be any wiser unless something went wrong.
If something went wrong, the buyer would have to prove it was due to a remap. With BMW this could be straight forward - "What caused this problem?", "your car has been remaped mate"... happy days, your piece of paper is gold. With a private seller...buyer beware.


It depends why the OP wants to know. As others have said a remap is pretty risk free these days. If he wants to know to gauge if the car has been treated well, personally, I'd me more concerned about running in, if it was a lease car, etc etc.

Your bit of paper isn't worth gold unless you can prove exactly when the car was remapped. Unless you can prove it was mapped before you took ownership the previous owner could claim you got it mapped and are trying to blame them now something has gone wrong.

[teaston]

Originally Posted by Watsey

Very easy in the F3X : an enclosure on the near-side of the engine bay.

That's what I thought!

[Dave-ncl]

Thanks Guys.

I think the car i'm looking for is a 16/66 so will fall into the 2 year lease category. The benefit for me of this car is firstly the price (top of my budget) and will allow me to buy from any garage as there will be the balance of the manufacturer warranty remaining (hopefully still 12 months) and usually low miles.

I know people wouldn't thrash one of these for the sake of it but I'd prefer to know the car I buy has been kept within the original parameters set by the manufacturer. I'm not knowledgeable/smart enough to start looking in engines or settings.

I guess i'll have to be trusting, use my gut instinct and failing that, rely on the warranty.

Today, I've put a deposit on a 16 plate 330d sdrive. However, I think this will fall through as the rate has came back a fair bit higher than they said it would be. Now I'm wondering if the lower rate was ever available.

fingers crossed x

[Nobby Clark]

Originally Posted by DexGC

Your bit of paper isn't worth gold unless you can prove exactly when the car was remapped. Unless you can prove it was mapped before you took ownership the previous owner could claim you got it mapped and are trying to blame them now something has gone wrong.

Fair enough, but if you could.
Personally, I’d be more concerned how many time launch control had been used.

[teaston]

Originally Posted by Dave-ncl

Thanks Guys.

I think the car i'm looking for is a 16/66 so will fall into the 2 year lease category. The benefit for me of this car is firstly the price (top of my budget) and will allow me to buy from any garage as there will be the balance of the manufacturer warranty remaining (hopefully still 12 months) and usually low miles.

I know people wouldn't thrash one of these for the sake of it but I'd prefer to know the car I buy has been kept within the original parameters set by the manufacturer. I'm not knowledgeable/smart enough to start looking in engines or settings.

I guess i'll have to be trusting, use my gut instinct and failing that, rely on the warranty.

Today, I've put a deposit on a 16 plate 330d sdrive. However, I think this will fall through as the rate has came back a fair bit higher than they said it would be. Now I'm wondering if the lower rate was ever available.

fingers crossed x

Come back to them saying the rate you're willing to pay is a fair bit lower!