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      07-23-2008, 11:23 AM   #1
MMMazing07
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headers for Z4M

so i plan to run headers. still deciding between ebay and agency power. but the common problem going into this is the CEL. Since my car is a vert i dont want to run the headers with no cats (smells like ass) therefore i plan to run Random technology headers. my friend has them on his M3 and the're great. But im not too sure if the Random tech cats will fit my car. i wasnt sure if any Z4Ms here have had experience with headers. So please share your feelings and concerns.
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      07-23-2008, 12:15 PM   #2
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This thread delivers.
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      07-23-2008, 01:17 PM   #3
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lol i thought if i posted a topic i would get some feedback. but you have to wait a couple days to even get 1 response lmao. did u see my post in the looking for a man thread

*patiently waiting*

we even have the same avatar lol
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      07-23-2008, 01:25 PM   #4
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i would respond, but since i know nothing about the topic, i felt i would use some good old fashioned e46 fanatics off topic humor.

this thread is racist.
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      07-23-2008, 01:31 PM   #5
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this thread fails

did you see pics of my doggy (question mark key broken)
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      07-23-2008, 01:38 PM   #6
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Ouch, no replies but your own.

Well, I'm running a 3.0i and I have supersprint headers with magnaflow cats.

Try to get a cylindrical cat and you'll need O2 sensor bungs.

Once you put in the headers, have a shop weld in the cats post header, and weld in the O2 sensor bungs as well. You'll need to extend the O2 sensor wires in order to get them to reach their new home further down the exhaust tract.

Other then that, it should work just fine.

BTW, Magnaflow cats are a lot cheaper than the Random Tech ones, and they will pass emissions no problem.
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      07-23-2008, 01:54 PM   #7
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lol blackm replyed! but its looks like its me since we have the same avatar

not sure if magnaflow would fit. that would require some jigging. dont want to deal with that.

my understanding was that the aftermarket headers shorten the exhaust tract. once in the first 2 O2s plug in but the 2nd set has no place to go. then when i go to install the cats the second set of O2s would plug up in them.

i didnt know this would require some wielding of the pipes or extending of the O2s. damn this is going to be a lot of work
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      07-23-2008, 02:09 PM   #8
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i did see the pictures of your dog. very cute. god i love shepherds. make sure you play with her a LOT. they are smart dogs and need to be tested so that they are forever on top of things.
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      07-23-2008, 02:23 PM   #9
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I'm running Evosport E46 M3 headers on my Z4 M Coupe. I am getting a SES light, but don't really care since it looks nice next to the amber DSC OFF light. I am able to reset the light long enough for an inspection if I need to.
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      07-23-2008, 02:36 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MMMazing07 View Post
lol blackm replyed! but its looks like its me since we have the same avatar

not sure if magnaflow would fit. that would require some jigging. dont want to deal with that.

my understanding was that the aftermarket headers shorten the exhaust tract. once in the first 2 O2s plug in but the 2nd set has no place to go. then when i go to install the cats the second set of O2s would plug up in them.

i didnt know this would require some wielding of the pipes or extending of the O2s. damn this is going to be a lot of work
LoL, I had no idea you had other replies!

But anyways, everything you need can be ordered from vibrant performance from adapter pipes to cats to sensor bungs. But I'd rather stick to magnaflow cats.

Proven to pass. I've heard stories with Random Tech cats where the CEL light still comes on.

But the headers should be a direct swap with the stock ones and they shouldnt alter the position of the pipes.

The only welding that's needed is to fit new cats into the exhaust as the stock system has the cats integrated into the headers.

Give a good shop the better part of a day to get it done for you.
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      07-23-2008, 05:08 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MMMazing07 View Post
so i plan to run headers. still deciding between ebay and agency power. but the common problem going into this is the CEL. Since my car is a vert i dont want to run the headers with no cats (smells like ass) therefore i plan to run Random technology headers. my friend has them on his M3 and the're great. But im not too sure if the Random tech cats will fit my car. i wasnt sure if any Z4Ms here have had experience with headers. So please share your feelings and concerns.
Alright just a few things. First when going with headers on the z4 you will still have secondary cats in the 1st section so it won't "smell like ass".

Second take it from someone who as installed ebay headers, you do NOT want to be getting ebay headers. Period. They require modification to fit properly, which you'll be charged for. If they aren't modified and just installed half assed (which they most likely will be, half assed products get half assed installation, just how it works) you will run into trouble down the road with the 02 sensors. With the ebay headers, you can't even put the secondary O2s in place safely.

Putting new cats in place will be a VERY difficult process and sort of negate the whole reason for putting headers in in the first place.


I will be putting headers on my car in the near future I'll let you know how it turns out. May have a solution for the CEL as well, but won't know till later.


We sell headers so I'll PM you about that. We provide service and assistance for products we sell. So once they are on the car I'll give you the ins and outs of it.
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      07-23-2008, 05:11 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbdm4k View Post
LoL, I had no idea you had other replies!

But anyways, everything you need can be ordered from vibrant performance from adapter pipes to cats to sensor bungs. But I'd rather stick to magnaflow cats.

Proven to pass. I've heard stories with Random Tech cats where the CEL light still comes on.

But the headers should be a direct swap with the stock ones and they shouldnt alter the position of the pipes.

The only welding that's needed is to fit new cats into the exhaust as the stock system has the cats integrated into the headers.

Give a good shop the better part of a day to get it done for you.
It's not that easy, also there is a set of cats post headers as well. Screwing with the o2 wires is not something that should be done, it's better to just have them turned off.

Also all high flow cats will change the signal of the secondary O2s.
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      07-23-2008, 06:00 PM   #13
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Buy a set of OEM Euro headers $1,900 " they dont have the US cats " and get ESS software $795 to remove the SES if it bothers you. Or you can take your chances and rig something together.
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      07-23-2008, 09:37 PM   #14
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thanks for the info o-cha i was more inclined towards the agency power headers instead of ebay.

The CSL headers sound like a good idea. i like the piece of mind of having a OEM part. Wonder where i could find some.
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      07-23-2008, 10:00 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-cha View Post
It's not that easy, also there is a set of cats post headers as well. Screwing with the o2 wires is not something that should be done, it's better to just have them turned off.

Also all high flow cats will change the signal of the secondary O2s.
It's actually quite easy provided your installer is a good welder and is willing to drop the whole exhaust to weld it properly. Obviously headers are not the cheapest parts you could be choosing to install.

And who said anything about running high flows? Also, why would putting cats in negate having headers? The equal length headers are there primarily to smooth the exhaust pulses and get the exhaust out of the engine faster. Cast headers aren't the best for exhaust flow. It's one reason why lots of aftermarket turbo cars use equal length exhaust manifolds instead of cast units.

Besides, the secondary O2's have no use other then to ensure the cats are working, extending them isn't a problem, or you could just find ones with longer wires to meet your needs. Or as another alternative, I believe its possible to buy O2 wire extenders that are plug and play.
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      07-23-2008, 10:28 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbdm4k View Post
It's actually quite easy provided your installer is a good welder and is willing to drop the whole exhaust to weld it properly. Obviously headers are not the cheapest parts you could be choosing to install.

And who said anything about running high flows? Also, why would putting cats in negate having headers? The equal length headers are there primarily to smooth the exhaust pulses and get the exhaust out of the engine faster. Cast headers aren't the best for exhaust flow. It's one reason why lots of aftermarket turbo cars use equal length exhaust manifolds instead of cast units.

Besides, the secondary O2's have no use other then to ensure the cats are working, extending them isn't a problem, or you could just find ones with longer wires to meet your needs. Or as another alternative, I believe its possible to buy O2 wire extenders that are plug and play.

What are you even talking about? You just pulled a bunch of stuff out of your hat that I didnt even talk about. I said it was trouble because you dont want to be extending the o2 sensors, any idiot can weld a bung in, not any idiot can be trusted to be cutting up your o2 wires.

Removing the cats is the primary reason for headers, putting a set of regular cats right after the headers would negate the purpose, which is as you said. Smoothing out the exhaust flow into a wall isn't all that helpful.

Secondary O2s aren't needed correct, but good luck with a car that has them unplugged or in the same exhaust stream. S54 likes to dump fuel when it detects cat inefficiency.




Who said anything about cast headers again?





Like I said, have the secondaries turned off, rely on the scrubbers to help with the smell. Don't buy ebay headers.
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      07-23-2008, 11:00 PM   #17
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Some of the gains seen with ebay headers on the E46 M3 have been pretty impressive. Why couldn't you just install the headers and extend your O2 sensor down under the car inserting them after the secondary cats?
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      07-23-2008, 11:15 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kav View Post
Some of the gains seen with ebay headers on the E46 M3 have been pretty impressive. Why couldn't you just install the headers and extend your O2 sensor down under the car inserting them after the secondary cats?
Extending the sensors isn't easy, you would have to extend the wires cut holes in your exhaust and weld in bungs. Putting them after the secondary cats will likely still get an inefficiency code even if you do. Is all that trouble worth it?

The ebay headers don't suck on power, they suck on installation and have to be modified just to get them into an acceptable level of install. That's if you DONT want your secondary O2s in, to get your secondaries in they would need to be HEAVILY modified. The quality of them is also low in terms of material, doesn't mean less power, just means they sound crappy. They also are NOT equal length if you care.
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      07-24-2008, 06:01 AM   #19
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I see what you are saying. I did the same thing on my last car and the wire extension and putting the bung in after the secondary cats was very easy for an experienced shop. That being said that was a Nissan and I'm sure things are a little more complicated on this car.
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      07-24-2008, 10:31 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-cha View Post
What are you even talking about? You just pulled a bunch of stuff out of your hat that I didnt even talk about. I said it was trouble because you dont want to be extending the o2 sensors, any idiot can weld a bung in, not any idiot can be trusted to be cutting up your o2 wires.

Removing the cats is the primary reason for headers, putting a set of regular cats right after the headers would negate the purpose, which is as you said. Smoothing out the exhaust flow into a wall isn't all that helpful.

Secondary O2s aren't needed correct, but good luck with a car that has them unplugged or in the same exhaust stream. S54 likes to dump fuel when it detects cat inefficiency.

Who said anything about cast headers again?

Like I said, have the secondaries turned off, rely on the scrubbers to help with the smell. Don't buy ebay headers.
You were stating that it was pointless to put in headers if you were going to put cats back in post header.
I'm saying that's incorrect. The cats arent the end of the world nor do they rob you of significant power. With headers and cats you would still see a significant power gain.
In regards to cast headers or tubular headers, people go tubular because of the power gains, not because of the removal of cats as the primary reason.

As the car is a BMW and I'm sure you paid a pretty penny for yours, would you really bring it to an average joe schmoe shop to hack your exhaust? I wouldn't. I let a pro take care of mine, and he is quite skilled at fabricating exhausts. For him, extending O2 sensors and putting in new bungs or all the welding is a walk in the park for him.

Putting in the headers with or without cats will still see a big power gain over the stock headers. Just expect to pay a decent amount to get everything installed. Ball park $400 for the labour of this magnitude of installation to have the headers installed, and the entire exhaust dropped off the car to have the cats and o2 sensors relocated and welded in.

I guess "heavily" modified is really just perspective. To some people, it may seem like a lot of work, but to me, its just a day's work and fairly straightforward.

I will however agree that you get what you pay for. Ebay headers do not necessarily have the fit and finish of, for example, supersprint headers. YMMV, not everyone has trouble fitting them on the car.
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      07-25-2008, 12:35 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbdm4k View Post
You were stating that it was pointless to put in headers if you were going to put cats back in post header.
I'm saying that's incorrect. The cats arent the end of the world nor do they rob you of significant power. With headers and cats you would still see a significant power gain.
In regards to cast headers or tubular headers, people go tubular because of the power gains, not because of the removal of cats as the primary reason.

As the car is a BMW and I'm sure you paid a pretty penny for yours, would you really bring it to an average joe schmoe shop to hack your exhaust? I wouldn't. I let a pro take care of mine, and he is quite skilled at fabricating exhausts. For him, extending O2 sensors and putting in new bungs or all the welding is a walk in the park for him.

Putting in the headers with or without cats will still see a big power gain over the stock headers. Just expect to pay a decent amount to get everything installed. Ball park $400 for the labour of this magnitude of installation to have the headers installed, and the entire exhaust dropped off the car to have the cats and o2 sensors relocated and welded in.

I guess "heavily" modified is really just perspective. To some people, it may seem like a lot of work, but to me, its just a day's work and fairly straightforward.

I will however agree that you get what you pay for. Ebay headers do not necessarily have the fit and finish of, for example, supersprint headers. YMMV, not everyone has trouble fitting them on the car.

You have once again missed the point. You're also still talking about cast headers, and I'm still confused as to why as I never brought this up nor do the z4s come with them.


Also I would love to see the shop that would install and modify ebay headers, extend the O2 harnesses, install cats and weld in new bungs for 400 dollars. Then there is the cost of the cats themselves which would be a couple hundred.

If such a shop exists I have a feeling it's not the kind of shop a BMW belongs in or a owner would be comfortable with.
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