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      03-04-2019, 01:22 PM   #1
RichyT
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Ceramic coating??

Was thinking of getting my car ceramic coated with Gyeon Duraflex when I get it in the next few weeks

I’ve had my last 2 cars ceramic coated, and whilst I think it does make washing and waxing easier. After a few years I couldn’t really tell the difference if it was worth it or not. I’m in two minds whether to get it applied to this new car.

I’ll be keeping this car 3 years and it will be getting washed weekly regardless of ceramic coating or not. For £750 I’m not sure if it’s money well spent or not.

What’s the consensus?

Last edited by RichyT; 03-04-2019 at 01:38 PM..
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      03-04-2019, 01:57 PM   #2
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I tend to get all my car's done with it. Also a fan of Gyeon.

It certainly makes washing easier particularly if you top up the coating with the Bathe wash.

It's a decent expense but I suppose if you keep the car a few years it's worth it.

I'll be getting my M2C done when it arrives in May.
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      03-04-2019, 02:12 PM   #3
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On my RS I was using Adams shampoo which I found really good, never tried Bathe though.

I was thinking duraflex as it seems to give more of a slick/wet look compared with MOHS. But not sure if it’s worth it on the the HS as it’s quite light.

What colour are you going for Dazc?
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      03-04-2019, 02:39 PM   #4
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I am of two minds when it comes to coatings, on one hand I love them as they last 1-2 years or more with little maintenance, while a decent sealant/wax combo lasts 6 months at best with constant maintenance needed. But come the 2 year mark when a fresh coating is needed- there is no way to truly "scientifically" tell when an old coating is fully removed through machine polishing. It's a "feel it out" process, and that is not friendly to older cars with thin clear coat.

My rule of thumb is that a newer daily driver I don't want to mess around with too much gets the coating, while my "weekend" cars I plan to keep forever (M2) and older/classics with thin paint get the traditional sealant/wax combos.

Now that all being said, I will always ceramic coat wheels- just makes sense to me as I don't like cleaning them and BMW wheels attract brake dust like it's their prime directive and a coating makes it a TON easier to wash that stuff off.
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      03-05-2019, 12:19 PM   #5
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[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JL7ZwDu2z-k[/url]

Ok, here is my take on Coatings...

As an ex high end car detailer of 25 years, I was around when these started to hit the market and personally I am not a fan of permanent coating of anything. What makes me cringe even more is seeing high end detailers ceramic coat old Porsche's and Ferrari's for example. These cars were not painted like modern cars and you will simply destroy the paint. I was once asked to ceramic coat an F40, I refused, the paint on those is so thin you can see the weave through it!

Do not be fooled by all the BS hype surrounding these coatings. They will scratch and they will fail over time. Removing a ceramic coating is extremely difficult and uses either wet sanding or 'poly cracking' which is a very harsh chemical bathed by a towel and then left on the paint for a certain length of time. I saw a video of it recently that I will post and it will poss make you think twice (I hope).

I have personally seen white cars turn a cream colour due to UV damage, ceramic coatings wrongly applied and even cracking.

There is so much BS surrounding those things like they will stop stone chips, never need to polish again blah blah blah. People think that you just put some ceramic coating on and the rest is child's play. No one ever mentioned the amount of preparation that need to go in to the paint to make it as near flawless as possible. Some cars need 3 step correction, others not but it still needs massive prep.

Some call me old fashioned but I am a wax guy through and through. I love washing and waxing my car so much so I do it weekly even though I don't need to. Like the ceramic coating, you need to prep before the wax also but the result is the same, a flawless finish that you can remove any micro-scratches by simply polishing that area again and simply re-waxing, good luck doing that with a ceramic coat!

THIS IS A WAY FOR PEOPLE TO TAKE A HUGE AMOUNT OF CASH FROM YOU AND OVER PROMISE.

So, before you rush out and have your car ceramic coated, watch this.

This man speaks sense...



The wax he is referring to is for detailers, I personally use a wax I bought from the USA called Swissvax Trilogy u.S.a - The S is in a capital because I use the central formula version that was made for the climate of the central belt of the USA which is similar to our here in a a way.

Here is my M2 with nothing but wax on. It always looks like this but then again I'm a little anal when it comes to a clean car. I wax it weekly even though I know the specific wax i'm using will last 6-8 months with the right wash technique.

Granted there are many that swear by a coating - I would urge you to think twice!
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      03-05-2019, 12:29 PM   #6
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I have been toying with the idea of ceramic for a while. Thanks for that post DLT222, I’ve made the decision now 👍
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      03-05-2019, 12:42 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichyT View Post
On my RS I was using Adams shampoo which I found really good, never tried Bathe though.

I was thinking duraflex as it seems to give more of a slick/wet look compared with MOHS. But not sure if it’s worth it on the the HS as it’s quite light.

What colour are you going for Dazc?
I've went with Hockenheim Silver mate.

Went wild on the spec and added every option apart from Microsoft office, concierge service and the window shade band which you can have with the safety assist anyway.

I always just have 2 coats of the MOHS+ applied as I never keep cars long enough to warrant the Duraflex albeit it is the best for longevity I believe.
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      03-05-2019, 12:44 PM   #8
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I have been toying with the idea of ceramic for a while. Thanks for that post DLT222, I’ve made the decision now ��
I could type about the advantages and disadvantages for a long time but I won't.

What I will say is I am open to change, but when that change has so many possible implications that can come at a huge cost both in terms of having a ceramic coating applied and also a huge cost in having it all removed if there is an issue.

All i want is to go out, wash my car and wax it, stand back and look at the shine I've just achieved as well as staying out my wife's hair for a few hours! After all we are all car guys that enjoy looking after our pride and joy when we can.
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      03-05-2019, 01:07 PM   #9
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...subscribed!

Using Swissvax since over a decade and currently educating about ceramic coatings.

The more I read the more concerns I have...
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      03-05-2019, 01:13 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by ///M Houbi View Post
...subscribed!

Using Swissvax since over a decade and currently educating about ceramic coatings.

The more I read the more concerns I have...
AMEN!!

Here is another vid to look at...


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      03-05-2019, 01:29 PM   #11
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Nice video! One of the guys washing the car in it actually is a good friend of mine..
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      03-05-2019, 01:40 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLT222 View Post
Ok, here is my take on Coatings...

As an ex high end car detailer of 25 years, I was around when these started to hit the market and personally I am not a fan of permanent coating of anything. What makes me cringe even more is seeing high end detailers ceramic coat old Porsche's and Ferrari's for example. These cars were not painted like modern cars and you will simply destroy the paint. I was once asked to ceramic coat an F40, I refused, the paint on those is so thin you can see the weave through it!

Do not be fooled by all the BS hype surrounding these coatings. They will scratch and they will fail over time. Removing a ceramic coating is extremely difficult and uses either wet sanding or 'poly cracking' which is a very harsh chemical bathed by a towel and then left on the paint for a certain length of time. I saw a video of it recently that I will post and it will poss make you think twice (I hope).

I have personally seen white cars turn a cream colour due to UV damage, ceramic coatings wrongly applied and even cracking.

There is so much BS surrounding those things like they will stop stone chips, never need to polish again blah blah blah. People think that you just put some ceramic coating on and the rest is child's play. No one ever mentioned the amount of preparation that need to go in to the paint to make it as near flawless as possible. Some cars need 3 step correction, others not but it still needs massive prep.

Some call me old fashioned but I am a wax guy through and through. I love washing and waxing my car so much so I do it weekly even though I don't need to. Like the ceramic coating, you need to prep before the wax also but the result is the same, a flawless finish that you can remove any micro-scratches by simply polishing that area again and simply re-waxing, good luck doing that with a ceramic coat!

THIS IS A WAY FOR PEOPLE TO TAKE A HUGE AMOUNT OF CASH FROM YOU AND OVER PROMISE.

So, before you rush out and have your car ceramic coated, watch this.

This man speaks sense...



The wax he is referring to is for detailers, I personally use a wax I bought from the USA called Swissvax Trilogy u.S.a - The S is in a capital because I use the central formula version that was made for the climate of the central belt of the USA which is similar to our here in a a way.

Here is my M2 with nothing but wax on. It always looks like this but then again I'm a little anal when it comes to a clean car. I wax it weekly even though I know the specific wax i'm using will last 6-8 months with the right wash technique.

Granted there are many that swear by a coating - I would urge you to think twice!
Good Lord, that looks insane. Damn I wish you were here locally bc I would love for you to wax my car. Damn, I'm in shock looking at those photos.
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      03-05-2019, 01:50 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gk09 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DLT222 View Post
Ok, here is my take on Coatings...

As an ex high end car detailer of 25 years, I was around when these started to hit the market and personally I am not a fan of permanent coating of anything. What makes me cringe even more is seeing high end detailers ceramic coat old Porsche's and Ferrari's for example. These cars were not painted like modern cars and you will simply destroy the paint. I was once asked to ceramic coat an F40, I refused, the paint on those is so thin you can see the weave through it!

Do not be fooled by all the BS hype surrounding these coatings. They will scratch and they will fail over time. Removing a ceramic coating is extremely difficult and uses either wet sanding or 'poly cracking' which is a very harsh chemical bathed by a towel and then left on the paint for a certain length of time. I saw a video of it recently that I will post and it will poss make you think twice (I hope).

I have personally seen white cars turn a cream colour due to UV damage, ceramic coatings wrongly applied and even cracking.

There is so much BS surrounding those things like they will stop stone chips, never need to polish again blah blah blah. People think that you just put some ceramic coating on and the rest is child's play. No one ever mentioned the amount of preparation that need to go in to the paint to make it as near flawless as possible. Some cars need 3 step correction, others not but it still needs massive prep.

Some call me old fashioned but I am a wax guy through and through. I love washing and waxing my car so much so I do it weekly even though I don't need to. Like the ceramic coating, you need to prep before the wax also but the result is the same, a flawless finish that you can remove any micro-scratches by simply polishing that area again and simply re-waxing, good luck doing that with a ceramic coat!

THIS IS A WAY FOR PEOPLE TO TAKE A HUGE AMOUNT OF CASH FROM YOU AND OVER PROMISE.

So, before you rush out and have your car ceramic coated, watch this.

This man speaks sense...



The wax he is referring to is for detailers, I personally use a wax I bought from the USA called Swissvax Trilogy u.S.a - The S is in a capital because I use the central formula version that was made for the climate of the central belt of the USA which is similar to our here in a a way.

Here is my M2 with nothing but wax on. It always looks like this but then again I'm a little anal when it comes to a clean car. I wax it weekly even though I know the specific wax i'm using will last 6-8 months with the right wash technique.

Granted there are many that swear by a coating - I would urge you to think twice!
Good Lord, that looks insane. Damn I wish you were here locally bc I would love for you to wax my car. Damn, I'm in shock looking at those photos.
Thanks! It's just knowing how to use a machine to remove the small micro scratches etc.


Took this the other day when the sun was out....
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      03-05-2019, 02:04 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLT222 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by gk09 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DLT222 View Post
Ok, here is my take on Coatings...

As an ex high end car detailer of 25 years, I was around when these started to hit the market and personally I am not a fan of permanent coating of anything. What makes me cringe even more is seeing high end detailers ceramic coat old Porsche's and Ferrari's for example. These cars were not painted like modern cars and you will simply destroy the paint. I was once asked to ceramic coat an F40, I refused, the paint on those is so thin you can see the weave through it!

Do not be fooled by all the BS hype surrounding these coatings. They will scratch and they will fail over time. Removing a ceramic coating is extremely difficult and uses either wet sanding or 'poly cracking' which is a very harsh chemical bathed by a towel and then left on the paint for a certain length of time. I saw a video of it recently that I will post and it will poss make you think twice (I hope).

I have personally seen white cars turn a cream colour due to UV damage, ceramic coatings wrongly applied and even cracking.

There is so much BS surrounding those things like they will stop stone chips, never need to polish again blah blah blah. People think that you just put some ceramic coating on and the rest is child's play. No one ever mentioned the amount of preparation that need to go in to the paint to make it as near flawless as possible. Some cars need 3 step correction, others not but it still needs massive prep.

Some call me old fashioned but I am a wax guy through and through. I love washing and waxing my car so much so I do it weekly even though I don't need to. Like the ceramic coating, you need to prep before the wax also but the result is the same, a flawless finish that you can remove any micro-scratches by simply polishing that area again and simply re-waxing, good luck doing that with a ceramic coat!

THIS IS A WAY FOR PEOPLE TO TAKE A HUGE AMOUNT OF CASH FROM YOU AND OVER PROMISE.

So, before you rush out and have your car ceramic coated, watch this.

This man speaks sense...



The wax he is referring to is for detailers, I personally use a wax I bought from the USA called Swissvax Trilogy u.S.a - The S is in a capital because I use the central formula version that was made for the climate of the central belt of the USA which is similar to our here in a a way.

Here is my M2 with nothing but wax on. It always looks like this but then again I'm a little anal when it comes to a clean car. I wax it weekly even though I know the specific wax i'm using will last 6-8 months with the right wash technique.

Granted there are many that swear by a coating - I would urge you to think twice!
Good Lord, that looks insane. Damn I wish you were here locally bc I would love for you to wax my car. Damn, I'm in shock looking at those photos.
Thanks! It's just knowing how to use a machine to remove the small micro scratches etc.


Took this the other day when the sun was out....
I don't have the words to describe your work. Beautiful
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      03-05-2019, 04:22 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gk09 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DLT222 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by gk09 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DLT222 View Post
Ok, here is my take on Coatings...

As an ex high end car detailer of 25 years, I was around when these started to hit the market and personally I am not a fan of permanent coating of anything. What makes me cringe even more is seeing high end detailers ceramic coat old Porsche's and Ferrari's for example. These cars were not painted like modern cars and you will simply destroy the paint. I was once asked to ceramic coat an F40, I refused, the paint on those is so thin you can see the weave through it!

Do not be fooled by all the BS hype surrounding these coatings. They will scratch and they will fail over time. Removing a ceramic coating is extremely difficult and uses either wet sanding or 'poly cracking' which is a very harsh chemical bathed by a towel and then left on the paint for a certain length of time. I saw a video of it recently that I will post and it will poss make you think twice (I hope).

I have personally seen white cars turn a cream colour due to UV damage, ceramic coatings wrongly applied and even cracking.

There is so much BS surrounding those things like they will stop stone chips, never need to polish again blah blah blah. People think that you just put some ceramic coating on and the rest is child's play. No one ever mentioned the amount of preparation that need to go in to the paint to make it as near flawless as possible. Some cars need 3 step correction, others not but it still needs massive prep.

Some call me old fashioned but I am a wax guy through and through. I love washing and waxing my car so much so I do it weekly even though I don't need to. Like the ceramic coating, you need to prep before the wax also but the result is the same, a flawless finish that you can remove any micro-scratches by simply polishing that area again and simply re-waxing, good luck doing that with a ceramic coat!

THIS IS A WAY FOR PEOPLE TO TAKE A HUGE AMOUNT OF CASH FROM YOU AND OVER PROMISE.

So, before you rush out and have your car ceramic coated, watch this.

This man speaks sense...



The wax he is referring to is for detailers, I personally use a wax I bought from the USA called Swissvax Trilogy u.S.a - The S is in a capital because I use the central formula version that was made for the climate of the central belt of the USA which is similar to our here in a a way.

Here is my M2 with nothing but wax on. It always looks like this but then again I'm a little anal when it comes to a clean car. I wax it weekly even though I know the specific wax i'm using will last 6-8 months with the right wash technique.

Granted there are many that swear by a coating - I would urge you to think twice!
Good Lord, that looks insane. Damn I wish you were here locally bc I would love for you to wax my car. Damn, I'm in shock looking at those photos.
Thanks! It's just knowing how to use a machine to remove the small micro scratches etc.


Took this the other day when the sun was out....
I don't have the words to describe your work. Beautiful
Thanks!

Years of machine polishing experience coupled with a desire for ultimate gloss with a dash of OCD.

Seriously though, that finish is achievable by watching you tube, buying a decent machine polisher RUPES BIGFOOT), correct pads and products. In my detailing career I only used Swissvax or Swissol as it used to be known.

They are not the cheapest but they are fantastic!
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      03-05-2019, 04:29 PM   #16
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I'm dubious of these coatings too and have been pretty much an old fashioned wax user for the last 15 years or so. I suppose if you get it done right, the car probably isn't a keeper and you're not in the mindset of looking after your own car to a high level then it may be a good call. I just don't know for sure.
One thing with my BMW though, I obviously turned down life shine etc, but from picking it up I have managed to maintain excellent sheeting and beading on it (even the wheels) just from using good washing technique and QD. I'm not sure what is used in the finishing processes from BMW as standard, but I'm actually that impressed by it, that week after week, 6 months later, I haven't even reached for any wax. I'm almost convinced someone had some prep done on it before delivery and then pulled out of a deal before I ended up buying it.
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      03-05-2019, 05:46 PM   #17
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Now and again I’ve been using a meguiars DA polisher with auto finesse products on my wife’s car which doesn’t have a coating, and the results are usually pretty awesome! If I could do that with my own car every week I would be happy.

On the flipside though I work offshore/abroad some times for weeks on end, so getting long days to clean my car isn’t always easy!

I’ll need to have a think about it over the next few days and decide what to do, as I say I never really thought about it with my 2 previous cars and got them coated. But this time I’m in two minds.

Cheers everyone for the feedback btw
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      03-05-2019, 06:03 PM   #18
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I install Ceramic Coatings - currently have a couple cars in my shop in for Ceramic Coatings.

As @DLT222 said, be wary of installers over promising. Ceramic coatings won't prevent swirls, rock chips or other physical damage. They tend to be harder than your typical clear coat which means that it's a bit easier to avoid swirl marks with proper care but it's not scratch proof. I sell coatings on ease of cleaning, ease of maintenance and protection against UV and chemical damage.

Also most coatings are permanent in that the only way that they can be removed is through abrasion - typically a cutting compound and microfiber pad will strip the coating off the surface. If you have to wet sand the paint then something is seriously wrong.

Over the counter coatings tend to yellow but I haven't seen this happen with professional grade products.

Personally i think they ceramic coatings are great - they outperform wax and if you get swirling or marring you can polish the coating off of that panel and recoat it without digging into the clear coat. With proper maintenance they will perform for years where I can't really say the same for a traditional wax/sealant.
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      03-06-2019, 01:45 AM   #19
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I install Ceramic Coatings - currently have a couple cars in my shop in for Ceramic Coatings.

As @DLT222 said, be wary of installers over promising. Ceramic coatings won't prevent swirls, rock chips or other physical damage. They tend to be harder than your typical clear coat which means that it's a bit easier to avoid swirl marks with proper care but it's not scratch proof. I sell coatings on ease of cleaning, ease of maintenance and protection against UV and chemical damage.

Also most coatings are permanent in that the only way that they can be removed is through abrasion - typically a cutting compound and microfiber pad will strip the coating off the surface. If you have to wet sand the paint then something is seriously wrong.

Over the counter coatings tend to yellow but I haven't seen this happen with professional grade products.

Personally i think they ceramic coatings are great - they outperform wax and if you get swirling or marring you can polish the coating off of that panel and recoat it without digging into the clear coat. With proper maintenance they will perform for years where I can't really say the same for a traditional wax/sealant.

Of course they will perform for years. But I'm sorry to say you missed the point with your comment slightly.

Sure ceramic coat your rep mobile, but to slap coatings on practically anything that comes through the door is near mindless all because an owner has read the BS online and thinks great... My supercar could do with a ceramic coat is just stupid. The car is just going to sit in a beautiful garage not needing much looking after and that is where a wax comes in.

It's all over hyped I'm afraid, promises made that can't be upheld. You have just said above that is you get marring in the coating have it removed and re-coated, that means you have to take your car to be re-coated regular as they all get marring, so that brings me to the point of 'why bother'? If it's going to need to be re-coated because you have marring, that means a trip to the pro. Instead with a wax you can do it on your driveway, no pro fees.

Like I said, I was around when these were introduced in to the world from the Far East, they are made from chemicals that are hazardous to health so much so some coatings they recommend breathing equipment.

These companies write a book of BS, unfortunately most people read it and think that coatings are the shit.

Last edited by DLT222; 03-06-2019 at 01:58 AM..
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      03-06-2019, 02:54 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichyT View Post
Now and again I’ve been using a meguiars DA polisher with auto finesse products on my wife’s car which doesn’t have a coating, and the results are usually pretty awesome! If I could do that with my own car every week I would be happy.

On the flipside though I work offshore/abroad some times for weeks on end, so getting long days to clean my car isn’t always easy!

I’ll need to have a think about it over the next few days and decide what to do, as I say I never really thought about it with my 2 previous cars and got them coated. But this time I’m in two minds.

Cheers everyone for the feedback btw
A DA is a great machine to start with. Porter cable is another great machine.

I leaned with a rotary polished which has way more chance of damaging paintwork due to the heat that can be generated by it.

I would recommend anyone to have a go with a DA (Dual Action) polisher. It easier than you think.

There are some great videos online as tutorials. I started with a scrap bonnet from a car, paid £20 for it. That way you can practice to your hearts content!
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      03-06-2019, 07:52 AM   #21
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Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Kent

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Good to see some fellow M2 owners on this thread!

I’ve done the GTechniq Crystal Serum & EXO to my last few cars. Basically it allows me to be lazy and IMHO lasts longer than wax. Will it stop any real damage, no although it claims to prevent bird poo marks but I wipe that off quickly anyway!

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      03-06-2019, 11:12 AM   #22
///M Houbi
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Drives: M2 Competition
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Switzerland

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What a coincidence!?!?

The friend from those videos called me this morning. Swissvax wants to make a new wax application video for on of their waxes and they need a sick car to do so.... now guess what..

Will drop my car of next friday and have it back the tuesday after. They'll make the video for their BMW specific wax and as a little thank you they will fully detail my car with the wax of my choice...
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