[lowrydr310]

I know this is a very open ended question subject to a lot of opinions, but I'm looking to get an idea of what I would be getting myself into if I bought a 335i.

I love my 325i (2006 E90 in the US market it was called the 325i only for 2006 but it's nearly identical to a 07-08 328i) but it has very high mileage and it's an automatic, and my kid will be driving it soon (bought the car for a *very* low price to teach him how to repair cars, to do maintenance, and learn to drive on it). I love the car so much I want one just for me, but cleaner with less mileage and a manual transmission.

The N52 is plenty of enjoyment for me and I appreaciate the simplicity, but I have seen many 335s in the same price range I'm looking at for similarly equipped 328s. I'm leaning towards sticking with the N52, but what would I be getting myself into with a N54? Assuming it's been maintained well with oil changes done properly, just how much extra work are these to keep going?

I'm aware of the charge pipe issues, high pressure fuel pump problems, injector issues, wastegate rattle, seals in the turbo (not really unique to BMW), and the required walnut blasting. Other than these items, are they really that much less reliable than the N52? Is it guaranteed that the turbos will need to be replaced when they start to see very high mileage, or is it possible for them to actually not fail for the life of the car? Can the N54 make it over 300K miles like the N52?

I'm leaning towards keeping it simple and sticking with natural aspiration, but for the same price I am tempted by the idea of having some serious power available, even by today's standards.

[type-dRew]

If you don't mind wrenching and don't mind investing in quality replacement parts, i'd say its more about preventative maintenance. If you put stuff off you'll be 'repairing' it a lot.

If you don't mind updating half the engine bay when you get the car to take benefit from what it can offer, then go for it. But if you're more the repair rather than prevent kind of guy, you're probably not going to enjoy the experience.

That said, I bought the cheapest and highest mileage 335(148k miles, $5800) within 500 miles of me and after some spark plugs, coil packs, walnut blast and some mods you cannot tell me there is a better deal for performance/dollar available on the market. This thing is an absolute blast, i'm just ready to fix whatever I haven't had time to touch yet and am willing to do so for the access to power the car affords me.

[tisdrew]

The 335i is a "value" car. It is performance per dollar. Cheap, Fast, Reliable: Choose two. It depends on your budget and what you want overall. You can pick one up for under $10k or get a low mileage 335is for $20k.

The peripherals on the n54 are notoriously unreliable. Be prepared to spend around $2500 in maintenance in the first year if it doesn't have some updated items. It will not be reliable like your n52. Good news is the higher mileage ones probably have already had some stuff done for them (turbos, water pump, injectors) but it's worth checking. The car doesn't chew through bushings or sensors or rod bearings like some other german cars which is nice; it will eat up spark plugs and tires though. What is good news compared to other BMWs is that these interiors are holding up very well.

If the modding bug bites you, it can become very expensive.

[tova86]

very unreliable around 70000 and up

[RayLivingston]

I bought my '07 335i almost 5 years ago, for about $12.5K, with 83K miles on it. It had just had the HPFP replaced, and appears to also have a new water pump and thermostat. So far, we've replaced both VANOS solenoids (~$60 each), the oil filter housing gasket (~$15), the valve cover and gasket (~$99), the serpentine belt, idlers and tensioner (~$150?), and a couple of dodgy looking coolant hoses and pipes. In ~30K miles, it has never failed to get us where we were going. No regrets here, though I still prefer my '01 325i overall. Waaaaaaay too much cheap plastic in the 335 engine bay. And the 5-speed slush-box on the 325 is head and shoulders better than the 6-speed slush-box on the 335.

Regards,
Ray L.

[lowrydr310]

Originally Posted by kens

I've had mine 2 years, turbos had wastegate rattle about 8 months after buying it. I got them completely replaced for free by BMW under the extended warranty, also replaced valve cover gasket+housing and oil filter housing gasket ($$ since I can't do it myself, NOT at BMW), shortly after fixing those my rear main seal went (ugh, 2k+ for this one alone! tons of labor, cheap seal).

I have done coils, coil packs, transmission pan and fluid change, dual cone intake, charge pipe, stepped intercooler, MHD tune, I have walnut blasted and installed bavsound stage 1. I am under 100k miles.

Would I do it again? Yep. My car is solid (minus upgrading suspension) for another 70-80k miles now. For me, this is 8ish years of driving.

If you're really considering this vehicle, just budget in the cost for up front maintenance.
(2-4k at least in the first 2 years)

Really? 2-4K for maintenance? I'm assuming that's having the work done by a shop and not DIY.

Aside from the turbos (and the goodies you added like intercooler, MHD, charge pipe) I made all the same repairs on my N52. Parts were relatively cheap and it didn't take too much of my time.

Originally Posted by RayLivingston

I bought my '07 335i almost 5 years ago, for about $12.5K, with 83K miles on it. It had just had the HPFP replaced, and appears to also have a new water pump and thermostat. So far, we've replaced both VANOS solenoids (~$60 each), the oil filter housing gasket (~$15), the valve cover and gasket (~$99), the serpentine belt, idlers and tensioner (~$150?), and a couple of dodgy looking coolant hoses and pipes. In ~30K miles, it has never failed to get us where we were going. No regrets here, though I still prefer my '01 325i overall. Waaaaaaay too much cheap plastic in the 335 engine bay. And the 5-speed slush-box on the 325 is head and shoulders better than the 6-speed slush-box on the 335.

Regards,
Ray L.

Like I replied to the post above, I replaced/repaired most of those same items on my N52 E90, for similar prices to what you quoted, which are relatively inexpensive.

It still sounds like the only real difference in common failure items between the N54 and N52 were those items I mentioned in my original post. HPFP, wastegate rattle, injectors, possible turbo seals. Everything else discussed affects the N52 as well, and they're things that I'd likely need to end up replacing regardless of which engine I decided to get.

Basically if I get a 335, I should either try and confirm those items were already replaced or just be prepared to replace them if they fail. From what I'm reading elsewhere, it sounds like injectors, HPFP, water pumps, and thermostats are pretty reliable and will last long after they have been replaced. Most of the 335s that I've been looking at (around 120K miles) already had those items replaced.

Now I'm just looking for more info about the turbochargers and their reliability. For those who had them replaced under warranty for wastegate rattle, is it an upgraded design that is more reliable and less susceptible to rattle? Or is it the same design which will end up failing again after a specific amount of time/usage?

[RayLivingston]

I was initially concerned about the turbos and associated hardware, but don't really worry about it anymore. I've owned several other turbo'd cars, going back to a Mazda MX-6 Turbo we put over 200K miles on with zero turbo problems. I think if you take care of them (mostly keep up with oil changes), and don't really flog the he11 out of the engine, you'll be fine. If not new turbos are no really all THAT expensive (I'm told by a family member who is a BMW dealer mechanic) that I can get new turbos for ~$700. Replacing them is not a fun job, but also not all that bad. I recently had to rebuild the head on my '01 325i, and even that was really not a bad job, nor was it terribly expensive (about $1K all-in).

Regards,
Ray L.

[Biginboca]

Where there’s smoke there’s fire and these cars have earned their reputation.

If you can’t or (won’t) DIY maintenance don’t even consider buying a 335. You’ll pay far more than the purchase price in repair labor. If you enjoy spending time in the garage and don’t mind paying $500-$1k now and then on parts then the 335 is a great value for its power potential.

That’s my advice. I bought a n52 btw because for me reliability and low operating costs > power. I also hate direct injection (Any new tech that requires pulling the intake manifold every couple years for walnut blasting is a big step backwards in my opinion.)

If you are looking at keeping stock power levels on the 335 you might want to consider that a 328 with less than $2k in mods can give ~50 added horsepower and the driving experience pretty much equals a stock 335. That $2k is usually the price difference in similar condition cars (328i vs 335i), so for about same out of pocket you can have the driving experience of the 335 and lower maintenance of the 328.

[mecheng77]

Originally Posted by RayLivingston

I bought my '07 335i almost 5 years ago, for about $12.5K, with 83K miles on it. It had just had the HPFP replaced, and appears to also have a new water pump and thermostat. So far, we've replaced both VANOS solenoids (~$60 each), the oil filter housing gasket (~$15), the valve cover and gasket (~$99), the serpentine belt, idlers and tensioner (~$150?), and a couple of dodgy looking coolant hoses and pipes. In ~30K miles, it has never failed to get us where we were going. No regrets here, though I still prefer my '01 325i overall. Waaaaaaay too much cheap plastic in the 335 engine bay. And the 5-speed slush-box on the 325 is head and shoulders better than the 6-speed slush-box on the 335.

Regards,
Ray L.

Originally Posted by RayLivingston

I bought my '07 335i almost 5 years ago, for about $12.5K, with 83K miles on it. It had just had the HPFP replaced, and appears to also have a new water pump and thermostat. So far, we've replaced both VANOS solenoids (~$60 each), the oil filter housing gasket (~$15), the valve cover and gasket (~$99), the serpentine belt, idlers and tensioner (~$150?), and a couple of dodgy looking coolant hoses and pipes. In ~30K miles, it has never failed to get us where we were going. No regrets here, though I still prefer my '01 325i overall. Waaaaaaay too much cheap plastic in the 335 engine bay. And the 5-speed slush-box on the 325 is head and shoulders better than the 6-speed slush-box on the 335.

Regards,
Ray L.

I'm Surprised the older slushbox is better

[hassmaschine]

You guys can say the N52 needs all the same stuff, but it's just not true. There's a laundry list of things that are maintenance on an N54 or that fail that just don't exist on the N52. For example, MOSFETs on MSD80 are garbage. Walnut blasting. Plastic water pump housing. PS pulley hitting the subframe. There's much more than just turbos, wastegates and the HPFP.

And the 'same things' that you have to do on an N52, tend to have much longer intervals of failure. It's unlikely you would need to replace coil packs inside of 100k miles. Waterpumps last 2-3x as long. Etc. etc.

[tlow98]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

You guys can say the N52 needs all the same stuff, but it's just not true. There's a laundry list of things that are maintenance on an N54 or that fail that just don't exist on the N52. For example, MOSFETs on MSD80 are garbage. Walnut blasting. Plastic water pump housing. PS pulley hitting the subframe. There's much more than just turbos, wastegates and the HPFP.

And the 'same things' that you have to do on an N52, tend to have much longer intervals of failure. It's unlikely you would need to replace coil packs inside of 100k miles. Waterpumps last 2-3x as long. Etc. etc.

Yeah, plus the N52 maintenance is almost always easier. Less to remove- no oil cooler connected, no intake manifold coming off to do the OFHG ( I *think* you guys have to do that?), more room on both sides of the engine, I/C hoses, etc..

However, if you’re handy, enjoy wrenching and want a beast... those turbos are a bargain!

[RayLivingston]

Originally Posted by tlow98

Yeah, plus the N52 maintenance is almost always easier. Less to remove- no oil cooler connected, no intake manifold coming off to do the OFHG ( I *think* you guys have to do that?), more room on both sides of the engine, I/C hoses, etc..

However, if you’re handy, enjoy wrenching and want a beast... those turbos are a bargain!

Removing the intake on an N54 adds perhaps 15 minutes to the job. It is MUCH easier than, for example, an M54, since there is almost nothing connected to it.

Regards,
Ray L.

[Gamb1t]

Reliability is only for the feeble and toyota-heads. Are you ballsy?

[Riceball777]

It’s very very unreliable.

I love my n54. Makes over 500whp with crazy low end power. Super comfy to drive and very luxurious. All for under $10,000. But yeah you need to be able to wrench yourself it make this car possible. If you can’t do your own turbo swap, clutch job, oil pan gasket jobs your self. You will spend more on labor and maintaining the car than the car is worth.

[hassmaschine]

Originally Posted by tlow98

However, if you’re handy, enjoy wrenching and want a beast... those turbos are a bargain!

I agree with that, but I think it's true of any used BMW. I think you're insane to drive anything 10+ years old, even an N52 - if you have to take it to a shop for every little thing.

That said, I can wrench (and I do on all our cars) - an N54 doesn't scare me, but I just don't give a crap about the extra 1 second 0-60 time (if that, in reality) to deal with all that bullshit.

I always thought it would be fun to pick up a real cheap beater 335i to play with, but then I realize I already have no time for the other 10,000 projects I have going. I'd rather just drive my damn car..

[6ixSpd]

Originally Posted by mecheng77

I'm Surprised the older slushbox is better

It's not.

[Ozzie335i]

Forget N54, how reliable is any BMW?

Directly proportional to how thick your wallet is.

[hassmaschine]

Originally Posted by Ozzie335i

Forget N54, how reliable is any BMW?

Directly proportional to how thick your wallet is.

I'm not as anal as some people (I don't track gas fillups, etc). But I'm at around $100 a year in "parts" maintenance on my E90 (things that aren't gas, oil, and tires). My wallet is pretty damn sad too, lol.

[DS3IAM]

sounds like to me you already know your answer. Stay with N52 and enjoy the ride without the worries as you mentioned on your post! My suggestion find yourself a nice 328 6MT M/Msport package. It's rare to find one too!

[litxus]

If you want more reliable stay with N52.

[tlow98]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

I'm not as anal as some people (I don't track gas fillups, etc). But I'm at around $100 a year in "parts" maintenance on my E90 (things that aren't gas, oil, and tires). My wallet is pretty damn sad too, lol.

$100/year about exactly where I am with, as well, with non maintenance items.

[lowrydr310]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

That said, I can wrench (and I do on all our cars) - an N54 doesn't scare me, but I just don't give a crap about the extra 1 second 0-60 time (if that, in reality) to deal with all that bullshit.

I always thought it would be fun to pick up a real cheap beater 335i to play with, but then I realize I already have no time for the other 10,000 projects I have going. I'd rather just drive my damn car..

You sound just like me. I do *all* my own maintenance and repairs on my cars. In the 20+ years I've been driving, the only time I've ever taken any car to a mechanic/dealer was for warranty repairs. I'm not afraid of replacing turbos, clutches, or anything else (been there, done that, Mitsubishi 4G63 days). I love the idea of having a great fast platform to work with (335) but realistically I have absolutely no need for any additional power. It's a fun idea but totally not necessary, and yes I'd rather just be driving or focused on other higher priority projects. My N52 is plenty of fun to drive, but would be even more so with a manual transmission.

Thanks for all the insight from all the replies. It sounds like I'll stick with the N52. I just got tempted when I was looking at used cars and saw many examples of used 335s priced similarly to the 328s. After further thought, I am just going to be content with the E90 325i auto that I have now and share it with my kid. We don't even need an extra car (walking distance from his high school) so I can just save the extra cash.