08-19-2020, 10:57 PM | #1 |
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Brake upgrade suggestions needed!
Howdy,
I've run PFC08 pads for a while on the stock calipers and they've held up well but performance drops off noticeably after about 5 laps I'm looking for more stopping power and more endurance than the OEM units can provide. What are you running on track? Stoptech's? AP's? Let me know what you think I should run. Thanks! Update: For an OG M2. And yes I accidentally posted this in Track section rather than Brakes, oops. |
08-19-2020, 11:44 PM | #3 | |
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BUT if you are upgrading the caliper what are you going with? |
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08-20-2020, 05:01 AM | #5 | |
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Did you go front and rear or just fronts?
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08-20-2020, 07:21 AM | #6 | |
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Waiting for my rear calipers to die before I get rear AP’s. If I had to do it all over again, the blue brakes would have come off on Day 1 and AP’s would have gone on all four corners. |
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08-20-2020, 09:25 AM | #7 |
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Just curious, when you say the performance drops off significantly do you mean pedal feel or deceleration?
I ask because I also have stock blue brakes with PFC08 and Castrol SRF fluid, and I do notice the pedal getting longer after 10min or so, but the stopping performance is still very good. I'd go as far as saying that stopping distance when just warm to 20min into the session is still the same. Pedal definitely feels more spongy and has to travel more, but I compensate by stomping on it like there is a tarantula on the floor.
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08-20-2020, 09:49 AM | #8 |
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PFC 08s should be sufficient and shouldn't really "drop off" although I'm not sure exactly how they are dropping off for you. If they are, likely cooling ducts are the way to go. There are a number of threads on here where people have done that and it can be done very inexpensively.
I did go with the AP 9660's though. They will allow you to fit 18" wheels, don't change color, and don't tire out. Their customer service is also awesome. If you want to go aftermarket, go straight to AP. I do wish PFC made their compounds in the shape for the APs because I am a huge fan of their pads. Nothing wrong with Ferodo though. |
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08-20-2020, 10:55 AM | #9 | |
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Then again, maybe i just need to do as you do and STOMP on that thing harder. |
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08-20-2020, 10:58 AM | #10 | |
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08-20-2020, 11:48 AM | #11 | |
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I hear you, the pedal feel is not confidence inspiring, and I think I just programmed it in my brain that once hot the first 1.5-2" of pedal travel don't do anything. But my brake points get progressively later. I aim to brake when I see God. And it takes me time to work up the courage to do so. Because at some point you just hope the brakes are still there
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08-20-2020, 12:18 PM | #12 |
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The PFC 08 doesn’t have much bite to begin with and looses some when the pad gets hot. Couple that with the fluid getting toasty and you experience exactly what you guys are describing.
Changing to PFC 11’s and adding the Porsche GT3 air deflectors with allow you to run hard and not get the same feeling until 20min into a session. Last edited by ZM2; 08-20-2020 at 12:24 PM.. |
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08-20-2020, 01:04 PM | #13 | |
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I think it's both of these pieces: https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...99733148702kt/ https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...99734148392kt/ |
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08-20-2020, 09:50 PM | #14 | |
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08-20-2020, 10:02 PM | #15 | |
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Maybe he can chime in if that's the wrong one. |
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08-21-2020, 04:08 AM | #16 | |
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I did the cooling mod and it improves the brakes a lot. I did this after ordering an AP set and im kinda doubting whether I need the AP set or not. I used backing plates from 55parts.de (not on their site now for some reason) and 3D printed scoops I made myself. I think the scoop/hose combo is better than the diverter scoops. The diverter scoops dont blow air straight onto/into the disk and therefore are less efficient. BTW here is my solution for the rear (proto at this stage)
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08-21-2020, 04:22 AM | #17 |
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You’re not supposed to blow air straight onto the disc. It leads to large temp differences and premature cracking and pad wear. This is the main reason I haven’t done any of the backing solutions for the M2, that and I’ve seen carbon backing plates catch on fire.
My deflectors direct air into the hat. I think the some cooling on the M2 is good whether you have APs or not, since the airflow is so bad on our cars. The M2C at least has some air flowing into the wheel well, which helps. If I was pushing really hard in a 30-45min session I’d get a little fade in the front AP’s, but it was pad fade from the DS1.11, which kind of reminds me of a PFC 08 (which I never cared for much). Once the DS3.12 came out, no fade ever and super consistent and similar feel to a PFC 11. Also getting rear APs maybe would have negated me needing the GT3 deflectors, but again, the air flow on the OG M2 is terrible, so it cant hurt. They also don’t overcool the disc surface in winter time, which many of the hose/backing plate kits do making it an issue in cold weather daily driving. Last edited by ZM2; 08-21-2020 at 04:41 AM.. |
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08-21-2020, 04:53 AM | #18 | |
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I also think the differential cooling is not as big an issue as ppl seem to think it is. A GT2 RS comes with rear under arm funnels that blow straight onto the disk face, I think Porsche know what they are doing. Is it more efficient to blow in the center? probably, but without empirical data we are just comparing educated guesses. There are also so many variables to account for that annecdotal evidence should be taken with a large pinch of salt. Overcooling is such a minor issue in my opinion. Removing the rear scoops is as easy as cutting 3 zipties and takes 5min. The front intake scoops can be covered with duct tape in minutes and then they dont flow or cool the brakes. I did this at my last trackday in order to be able to bed in my new pads. EDIT: seem Porsche has been doing this for quite a while http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...ing-ducts.html
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Last edited by Megator; 08-21-2020 at 05:07 AM.. |
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08-21-2020, 05:16 AM | #19 |
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Blowing on the rear disc is fine. The front is where we see big temps.
It’s prob not a big deal bc most guys aren’t pushing their cars hard enough to create big temp differential issues, and why most guys here don’t have problems with hose setups. But if you look at proper backing plate setups on race cars, they’re funneled to the hat, not the disc. And I’d never put them on my street car bc of the fire hazard. If you keep your car between the lines on track like you do on the street, no big deal. If you explore track limits with them, you’re asking for trouble. Last edited by ZM2; 08-21-2020 at 05:24 AM.. |
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08-21-2020, 05:44 AM | #20 | |
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Sadly none of the metal ones fit the bill of blowing into the "hat". Even this one is only like 70-80% OK. I was going to make my own CF ones but the space into the hat iis so tight this is almost impossible. Maybe with the AP disks this is less of an issue as the hat seems bigger. This time next week I should have some temp data and I like to color outside the lines
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08-26-2020, 01:40 AM | #21 | |
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I can't really figure this one out, so usually I test the brakes just a bit before I really stomp on them. |
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08-26-2020, 04:17 AM | #22 | |
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I notice it on my brakes from time to time. https://nasaspeed.news/tech/brakes/p...o-do-about-it/
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