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      08-19-2020, 08:35 PM   #1
solstice
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Will the S58 get upgraded with 48V for the G8x?

Did anyone happen to ask if the car had the 48V mild hybrid system from the M440i? I think most of us guessed that it isn’t there but maybe it is and that’s why the press drives didn’t mention the added lag vs the F8X and S55 that has been observed by some X3M drivers?
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      08-20-2020, 04:04 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Did anyone happen to ask if the car had the 48V mild hybrid system from the M440i? I think most of us guessed that it isn't there but maybe it is and that's why the press drives didn't mention the added lag vs the F8X and S55 that has been observed by some X3M drivers?
I was told there is no hybrid technology on the M4 that was at Monticello. I expect the added weight hurt performance for the limited horsepower add.
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      08-20-2020, 11:49 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by FLYIN' View Post
I was told there is no hybrid technology on the M4 that was at Monticello. I expect the added weight hurt performance for the limited horsepower add.
Thanks for the information.

I’m torn about this system myself. I’m not there yet when it comes to BEVs but the torque fill of a 48V mild hybrid could be really nice.

I suspect even the current low power BMW system can be implemented to really be felt at initial throttle application due to the instant TQ. The slightly soft tip-in of any FI car without electrical assistance could be replaced by an immediate more stout response.

If the power assistance of the system can be M tuned solely for this reason the added weight of 40lbs or so placed low could be worth it for a much improved throttle response. That weight is similar to a sunroof which is almost impossible to notice and that’s in the worst possible location vs the mild hybrid weight sitting low.

On the other hand the KERS system used in F1 was probably the least reliable and annoying part of the cars the first year so for track junkies it would take some convincing I’m sure.
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      08-20-2020, 08:13 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Did anyone happen to ask if the car had the 48V mild hybrid system from the M440i? I think most of us guessed that it isn't there but maybe it is and that's why the press drives didn't mention the added lag vs the F8X and S55 that has been observed by some X3M drivers?
No MHEV at launch; wouldn't be very pure. Probably shouldn't dismiss the likelihood some electronic wizardry is there however.
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      08-20-2020, 08:42 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by lemetier View Post
No MHEV at launch; wouldn't be very pure. Probably shouldn't dismiss the likelihood some electronic wizardry is there however.
Intriguing...so some electrification embryo could be there with more to potentially come. This generation is shaping up to evolve more during it’s lifetime than what we are used to (we already know that AWD is coming). I always thought that would be great,if you got more or improved stuff ready, bring it. I know others feel different and feel cheated if they buy early and some goodies are introduced later.
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      08-20-2020, 09:31 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Intriguing...so some electrification embryo could be there with more to potentially come. This generation is shaping up to evolve more during it's lifetime than what we are used to (we already know that AWD is coming). I always thought that would be great,if you got more or improved stuff ready, bring it. I know others feel different and feel cheated if they buy early and some goodies are introduced later.
On the right track, especially when 6MT and availability of the latest generation mXdrive of is factored in. There's another glaring clue "leaked" here a long time ago that suddenly fits into place when some basic arithmetic is applied.
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      08-20-2020, 10:58 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by lemetier View Post
On the right track, especially when 6MT and availability of the latest generation mXdrive of is factored in. There's another glaring clue "leaked" here a long time ago that suddenly fits into place when some basic arithmetic is applied.
I had assumed the 8AT ones would have a 48v mhev system. I wasn't sure about the 6MT though having that feature.
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      08-20-2020, 11:36 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by brad850csi View Post
I had assumed the 8AT ones would have a 48v mhev system. I wasn't sure about the 6MT though having that feature.
Neither was I, I was surprised to find that at least one company has been willing to invest in developing 6MT technology with 48V systems in mind. Maybe the MT isn’t dead just yet

It would be a major surprise if the M3 is the first BMW to get this but I you never know until you know...and now I’m not so sure.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/i...nual-gearboxes
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      08-20-2020, 11:38 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by brad850csi View Post
I had assumed the 8AT ones would have a 48v mhev system. I wasn't sure about the 6MT though having that feature.
Stepping stones. After Brake by wire, what would be the next logical system to go "by wire" prior to an MHEV integration?
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      08-20-2020, 11:46 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemetier View Post
Stepping stones. After Brake by wire, what would be the next logical system to go "by wire" prior to an MHEV integration?
Referring to a Clutch by wire? I suppose smg /dsg has been doing this for a while now so the raw tech would exists, making it feel real... that would be hard
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      08-21-2020, 12:22 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemetier View Post
Stepping stones. After Brake by wire, what would be the next logical system to go "by wire" prior to an MHEV integration?
Please don't tell me it is this

https://www.motorauthority.com/news/...a-clutch-pedal
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      08-21-2020, 12:24 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by xlover View Post
Referring to a Clutch by wire? I suppose smg /dsg has been doing this for a while now so the raw tech would exists, making it feel real... that would be hard
Saab had a 5 speed (if I recall correctly) manual without a clutch pedal in the 80s. It had sensors that activated clutch actuators when you pulled the shifter. This new version in the article I posted have a 3rd pedal thankfully.

Just like the throttle has been by wire the last generations.
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      08-21-2020, 07:43 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemetier View Post
Stepping stones. After Brake by wire, what would be the next logical system to go "by wire" prior to an MHEV integration?
Trying to follow/learn. Are you guys talking about something like this?
Name:  pkw_a_kupplungssysteme_2017.jpg
Views: 2109
Size:  200.7 KB

https://www.zf.com/products/en/cars/products_47296.html

Last edited by BMWGirlFL; 08-21-2020 at 07:59 AM..
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      08-21-2020, 08:51 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by BMWGirlFL View Post
Trying to follow/learn. Are you guys talking about something like this?
Attachment 2394189

https://www.zf.com/products/en/cars/products_47296.html
Indeed it is
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      08-21-2020, 09:35 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemetier View Post
Indeed it is
If the manual cars are already equip it would incredibly interesting that none of the press were able to pick up on it at the pre-prod test drive
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      08-21-2020, 09:55 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xlover View Post
If the manual cars are already equip it would incredibly interesting that none of the press were able to pick up on it at the pre-prod test drive
Embargo feature likely. And by wire systems are so seamless these days that most don’t notice or know the difference...

I actually suspected my F80 had it for almost a year since the MT seemed almost impossible to fault
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      08-21-2020, 10:08 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by xlover View Post
If the manual cars are already equip it would incredibly interesting that none of the press were able to pick up on it at the pre-prod test drive
Embargo feature likely. And by wire systems are so seamless these days that most don't notice or know the difference...

I actually suspected my F80 had it for almost a year since the MT seemed almost impossible to fault
Yes! But you know how the automotive press loves to shake their canes at any new tech coming their way. Lots of things that could have been said "abrupt take up, non linear feel, etc". If the Ms are so equip then I think it's impressive they made it seamless...

Actually this would hit on another earlier discussion I drove around driver assist tech and manual transmission cars, it would certainty make implementation more feasible in a manual if a computer could override the clutch
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      08-21-2020, 10:26 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xlover View Post
Yes! But you know how the automotive press loves to shake their canes at any new tech coming their way. Lots of things that could have been said "abrupt take up, non linear feel, etc". If the Ms are so equip then I think it's impressive they made it seamless...

Actually this would hit on another earlier discussion I drove around driver assist tech and manual transmission cars, it would certainty make implementation more feasible in a manual if a computer could override the clutch
True but there is another factor...hybris. They all want to think they really master the MT so when the shifting seams more perfect than it should be it doesn’t register as technology caused

Seriously though, I suspect embargo since I’m sure BMW suspected some will notice and some likely did and further according to one of lemetier’s replies here there is also visible clue.

Last edited by solstice; 08-21-2020 at 10:32 AM..
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      08-21-2020, 11:39 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemetier View Post
Indeed it is
To be clear, you are speaking theoretically, right? Or do actually mean to say that the G8x M3/M4 will have a clutch-by-wire system at launch?

Even future plans to adopt such technology would surprise me, to be honest. BMW doesn't seem to be committed to the manual transmission much longer. Only the M2, M3, and M4 will carry the torch once the F22/F23 end next year. It would not surprise me if the MT does not make it to the following generation of these products. Even mild hybrid technology would appear to have a short lifespan at BMW given what we know about their plans to prioritize PHEV/BEV drivetrains for the next generation of vehicles like the G70 7 Series, G60 5 Series, U11 X1, and the new X8.
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      08-21-2020, 01:07 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by brad850csi View Post
I’m sure I remember a G8X video here having 3 pedal foot work in it so it can’t be. That is what SAAB had in their Sensonic system from the 90s and it’s missing the main point with an MT, the 3rd pedal.
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      08-21-2020, 01:13 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemetier View Post
No MHEV at launch; wouldn't be very pure. Probably shouldn't dismiss the likelihood some electronic wizardry is there however.
The 992 911 has components that could accommodate a future change and it has come with a weight penalty that many are not happy about. It makes sense in overall design to pan for the future, but it does have an impact, no way around it.

As to this thread:
I am thinking the M3 pure is pure, but down the road there is a plan for change when needed? Would the plan include components similar to the 992 and therefor suffer a similar weight penalty?
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      08-21-2020, 01:19 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by seis-speed View Post
The 992 911 has components that could accommodate a future change and it has come with a weight penalty that many are not happy about. It makes sense in overall design to pan for the future, but it does have an impact, no way around it.

As to this thread:
I am thinking the M3 pure is pure, but down the road there is a plan for change when needed? Would the plan include components similar to the 992 and therefor suffer a similar weight penalty?
I read between the lines that clutch by wire is already there. What is your thoughts on that, if true? I’m not getting MT this time but would welcome it.

Some parts of the implementation by ZF I’m not sure I’d like in an M3 though. The part of shutting off the engine while sailing and then restart when giving throttle would bother me.
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