[TouringPleb]

Looks interesting...

I was wondering how they'd fill the gap between 118i and M135i. Now we know!

I'm assuming they've called it the 128ti to keep a marketing gap between this and the M135i.


https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/n...28ti-prototype

[DaveA]

Very interesting... and bang on the Golf GTI competitor sort of spec... However, I hope they make it look more M135i than 118i in the styling, as VW do with the Golf...

The previous 1-er had the 125i which was a similar sort of proposition..

[dopper99]

So basically a Golf GTI, Focus ST, Renault Megane RS and Civic Type R rival.

It was all reading so promising, until I read what the kerb weight was ...... 1520kg!!!!

Thats about the same as my Golf R which is pretty poor for a FWD car. Most of the rivals are lighter. eg Civic and Golf is around 100kg lighter

[225]

Hmm makes sense for them to chase the "normal" hot hatch market I suppose as opposed to the mega or super hatches.
Manufacturers must love it these days, especially the VAG boys. Make one 2.0 4 pot turbo and sell it in various states of tune for every model going!

[Watsey]

So it's a (mostly) FWD warm hatch with a 4-pot motor and a very modest power output. Just like all the other warm hatches.

So why buy one ?

If I was in the market for a properly sorted (handling) Golf-sized hatch I'd be heading to Hyundai for an i30 N.

[TouringPleb]

Originally Posted by Watsey

So it's a (mostly) FWD warm hatch with a 4-pot motor and a very modest power output. Just like all the other warm hatches.

So why buy one ?

If I was in the market for a properly sorted (handling) Golf-sized hatch I'd be heading to Hyundai for an i30 N.

When did 261bhp through the front axle become 'very modest' output?

From the way I read the article it seems BMW are positioning it to handle well and be exciting, rather than the 300bhp 4 wheel drive hot hatches which all seem to be about grip and how quickly they can do the 0-60 sprint, rather in the same way as VW did with the Golf Club Sport. From what I remember at the time, reviews were more positive and enthusiastic than the R even though it had less power.

[Watsey]

Originally Posted by TouringPleb

When did 261bhp through the front axle become 'very modest' output?

From the way I read the article it seems BMW are positioning it to handle well and be exciting, rather than the 300bhp 4 wheel drive hot hatches which all seem to be about grip and how quickly they can do the 0-60 sprint, rather in the same way as VW did with the Golf Club Sport. From what I remember at the time, reviews were more positive and enthusiastic than the R even though it had less power.

Well 261bhp isn't remarkable - plenty of current offerings from other marques at around that level. Ford, Merc, Hyundai, VW, Audi, Seat and Renault all have very capable hot hatches in that sector.

I agree that BMW doesn't appear to be winning the numbers game, but if the outputs and the performance aren't class-leading (and they're really not), and some of the current offerings from its competitiors are very focussed for those drivers that are looking for a sharp-handling hatch, then the 128ti has an interesting badge but in reality is a vanilla product.

The 128ti doesn't need to compete with the M135i, it needs to compete with the competition (and there's a lot of it to compete with).

[225]

still can't get my head round when a 260bhp hot hatch is just boggo golf gti power!

Yes thats more down to my age than anything but in my day half that was the top rung of power!

[DaveA]

Originally Posted by Watsey

So it's a (mostly) FWD warm hatch with a 4-pot motor and a very modest power output. Just like all the other warm hatches.

So why buy one ?

1) You may be looking for a BMW (as opposed to the other manufacturers)
2) You might be looking for one with lots of kit that comes under the 40k RFL trigger.
3) 265hp/FWD may be a better proposition for you than 300hp/4WD...
4) You may prefer the interior/exterior styling of the BMW
5) Starting price supposedly £5.5k less than M135i
6) etc

All warm/hot/chilli/vindallo strength hatches are compromises, aren't they, and which one you go for (if you want one) depends upon the combo that best fits your needs... The lighter weight cars often feel less refined and are not all that much faster... The mechanical engineering on the 128ti may be more robust than the electronic engineering (diffs etc) on some other cars...

Originally Posted by Watsey

If I was in the market for a properly sorted (handling) Golf-sized hatch I'd be heading to Hyundai for an i30 N.

Just a question, have you ever driven the i30 N Performance...?

I have and whilst I think it is dynamically probably better ultimately than my GTI, this is moot for 99% of the time and I would not have liked one long term... Mainly this was due to lack of DSG/Auto and some other creature comforts and, also, the interior does not feel as up to date as the BMW (infotainment etc)... then there are things like the strut brace in the boot reduces space and restricts the usability of the through loading... and its performance capabilities over and above the GTI are only ever really going to be in driving circumstances that you are unlikely to get into day-to-day, nor too often in that 10% of time you spend playing in the car...

As for warm...

I would hazard a guess than hardly any warm/hot hatches are bought simply on performance grounds... They all have to do the day-to-day most of the time and then be a fun car the 10% of times you get to play... That was what VW got so right in the Mk1 GTI...

I suspect that my Mk7.5 GTI would safely "see off" any of the 3 series cars I owned in the past over the North York Moors roads that are on my doorstep.... and that is at legal speed limits... and it does all of the rest of the stuff I need it do do as well as the 3-ers did... whilst being cheaper to buy, own, run...

My only "complaint" is that it does not feel as refined inside as the BMW's, and so that's why I will be very interested in 128Ti

[Cootie]

Originally Posted by DaveA

My only "complaint" is that it does not feel as refined inside as the BMW's, and so that's why I will be very interested in 128Ti

Wouldn’t disagree with your view (I’ve got an R estate and my Dad has a GTi like yourself) - what I have found though is that ditching the bridgestones and getting the SoundAktor turned off makes a worthwhile improvement.

[Watsey]

Originally Posted by DaveA

1) You may be looking for a BMW (as opposed to the other manufacturers)
2) You might be looking for one with lots of kit that comes under the 40k RFL trigger.
3) 265hp/FWD may be a better proposition for you than 300hp/4WD...
4) You may prefer the interior/exterior styling of the BMW
5) Starting price supposedly £5.5k less than M135i
6) etc

All warm/hot/chilli/vindallo strength hatches are compromises, aren't they, and which one you go for (if you want one) depends upon the combo that best fits your needs... The lighter weight cars often feel less refined and are not all that much faster... The mechanical engineering on the 128ti may be more robust than the electronic engineering (diffs etc) on some other cars...



Just a question, have you ever driven the i30 N Performance...?

I have and whilst I think it is dynamically probably better ultimately than my GTI, this is moot for 99% of the time and I would not have liked one long term... Mainly this was due to lack of DSG/Auto and some other creature comforts and, also, the interior does not feel as up to date as the BMW (infotainment etc)... then there are things like the strut brace in the boot reduces space and restricts the usability of the through loading... and its performance capabilities over and above the GTI are only ever really going to be in driving circumstances that you are unlikely to get into day-to-day, nor too often in that 10% of time you spend playing in the car...

As for warm...

I would hazard a guess than hardly any warm/hot hatches are bought simply on performance grounds... They all have to do the day-to-day most of the time and then be a fun car the 10% of times you get to play... That was what VW got so right in the Mk1 GTI...

I suspect that my Mk7.5 GTI would safely "see off" any of the 3 series cars I owned in the past over the North York Moors roads that are on my doorstep.... and that is at legal speed limits... and it does all of the rest of the stuff I need it do do as well as the 3-ers did... whilst being cheaper to buy, own, run...

My only "complaint" is that it does not feel as refined inside as the BMW's, and so that's why I will be very interested in 128Ti

Of course there's a list pf potential reasons to buy anything in life, ETTO, but the ti models seem too samey for my liking both in terms of the BMW range and also much of the competition.

No, I've not driven the i30N but all the reviews that I've read have been consistent in their high praise and the fact that an AT/DCT isn't forced upon the customer would be a key attraction for me if I was looking for a sporty hatch.

Obstructed through-loading and slightly less refinement wouldn't bother me at all when hustling it along a demanding B road. Much like your GTi appeals to you in driving terms.

[Cootie]

Will be very interesting to see how the monthlies compare to a M135i - in truth though I think they might appeal to slightly different preferences, without one being necessarily better than the other.