[winther1]

In a year when the nutters from Extinction Rebellion got what they wanted and car owners are kicked in the face, how are you planning your last years owning and driving cars for pleasure (ICE), not just for practicality (EV)?
After the recent announcement to push forward the EV transition by a decade, I realised my current car is likely to be my last (uber/rental in the EV era) as I usually keep my cars for around 8 years.
Yes, you can buy used petrol cars after 2030, but I have no doubt that the government will punish you driving a non-EV vehicle to the point where they are too expensive to own and run for most people.
I assume the resale price of a petrol car will plummet as we are getting closer to the end of 2020's and taxes are raised. So I aim to just keep what I have now until the bitter end.
I will certainly do a few road trips through Europe, not hold back on upgrades/fun factor, take my son to as many car events as possible - and hopefully I will still have my car when he gets his drivers license, so he gets a taste of how it feels to drive something fun. He is 9 and obsessed with cars, but I guess he should be obsessed about how to save the planet, combat racism/nazism and learn about LGBTQ issues.
Guess I should prepare him for the future and show him Demolition Man

[Nibbles]

I'll be happy just to get to 2030 without being taxed so heavily I can't afford a car.

It's one of those headline statements Johnson can make knowing he's got sod all chance of still being in power by then. So he won't have to worry about whether people can afford it, the infrastructure required to have everyone moving over to EV's etc etc.

I would quite like a V8 before they become extinct though. Even if it's just for 12 months.

[Tengocity]

I don't think older cars will taxed off the road, as the government knows that it will punish older and poorer households more proportionally speaking. I actually think for performance and enthusiast type cars we will see the prices of them go up. I think we will see that rise in prices before 2030 as there is already not that many sports cars on the used market. When folk mainly have an electric cars I think we will find lots more people feel the need to have an old sports car in the garage. Personally, I fully intend to build a collection of them to savour for as long as I can.

[winther1]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

I don't think older cars will taxed off the road, as the government knows that it will punish older and poorer households more proportionally speaking. I actually think for performance and enthusiast type cars we will see the prices of them go up. I think we will see that rise in prices before 2030 as there is already not that many sports cars on the used market. When folk mainly have an electric cars I think we will find lots more people feel the need to have an old sports car in the garage. Personally, I fully intend to build a collection of them to savour for as long as I can.

I hope you are right, but if there will be any leniency for poorer households with ICE cars, I bet they will base that on engine size and tax the hell out of "rich" car owners with anything more exotic than a Ford Fiesta.
They will look for money wherever possible to plug the £40 billion tax hole caused by the switch to electric cars. And as you know - whenever there is a green initiative behind the taxation, people shut up and bend over.
A good indication they don't care about poorer household is the recent proposal to introduce the pay-per-mile scheme.
They are going to be ruthless, but as it's done to "save the planet" there will be very little - if any - opposition.

Btw - what will happen to the car tuning/mod and mechanic businesses? Can they switch to focusing on EV?

[Tengocity]

I think the tax attractiveness to EVs will only last so long, as the fact that legislation will force the issue means it won't be needed, not to mention the lost tax revenues. I think we will see the move to road pricing, which can then be used to change the levels of congestion that we see on the road networks.

[Ronstein]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

I think the tax attractiveness to EVs will only last so long, as the fact that legislation will force the issue means it won't be needed, not to mention the lost tax revenues. I think we will see the move to road pricing, which can then be used to change the levels of congestion that we see on the road networks.

It's also part of a longer term direction of travel of autonomous vehicles in smart cities where private ownership won't exist. We'll just pay per journey.

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by Ronstein

It's also part of a longer term direction of travel of autonomous vehicles in smart cities where private ownership won't exist. We'll just pay per journey.

The problem is, if levels of WFH continue as they are then we will see a big move away from cities!

[C320]

Well I'm certainly glad I've got a V8 at the moment

I'd like to think my next car would also be a V8 but who knows. I do fear that larger engined vehicles will get taxed even more. Wonder how long it takes until 'owning a car or cars' becomes like owning and riding horses! A pursuit for wealthier folk

[winther1]

Originally Posted by C320

Well I'm certainly glad I've got a V8 at the moment

I'd like to think my next car would also be a V8 but who knows. I do fear that larger engined vehicles will get taxed even more. Wonder how long it takes until 'owning a car or cars' becomes like owning and riding horses! A pursuit for wealthier folk

I always took comfort in US being an escape once things became to restrictive in Europe. In fact, I would move there in a heartbeat if a job opportunity was there and my kids were older.
That escape plan evaporated after the last US election. Green New deal will be brutal

[isleaiw1]

In 2030 I will be 66 and almost certainly retired. An EV will be perfect for most of my journeys then I am sure, but I am equally sure there will be something in the garage with an engine, whether it will be fast and fun or just a throwback to when we could buy them is dependent on how well the next 10 years go.

I've had my V8 whilst I could, am very happy with my V6 and who knows what will follow, I cant see me still having this one in 10 years but the 206 will probably still be in the garage waiting for me to get it sorted!

[MashinBenzin]

With a following financial wind, and if it drives as well as it should, something like a Rivian R1S would be fantastic. It would possibly be the best car I have ever owned and would suit me down to the ground in my car enthusiast dotage.

An EV MX-5 or 911 alongside it on the drive would be heaven.

[Alscoob]

How are you planning your last years as a car enthusiast?

Well, keep the petrol as long as possible. When and if the EV's hit the fan in 2030's join in with some plug in eurobox with a nose like a smurf..... and have a hooligan lurking in the garage just for fun.

But from experience that won't work as the EV will sit on the drive and you would be out in the other mostly

[winther1]

Originally Posted by saltyamigo

Why do you think there will be no EV's for driving pleasure? Car's will still be cars, there will still be a market for all types just powered by a different source. The Taycan is supposed to be just as good or better than a 911, I can't say either way as I've never driven either of them but if Porsche's first attempt at an EV is that good surely there will plenty of enjoyable driving EV's developed by 10 years time, the available market to choose from in 2030 will be very different to what it is now.

If you are into cars, you enjoy the sound and the mechanics of a petrol powered car. Yes, some EV's give you the option to get a V8 sound through speakers - but really.....

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by saltyamigo

Why do you think there will be no EV's for driving pleasure?

Originally Posted by winther1

If you are into cars, you enjoy the sound and the mechanics of a petrol powered car. Yes, some EV's give you the option to get a V8 sound through speakers - but really.....

I am sure that there will be Electric cars that are good to drive, but there is more to cars than that.

As Winther points out, there is the emotional connection that a proper mechanical machine like an ICE car. Be that the noise it makes, or the use of the gearbox etc.

I suppose one analogy is that of watches. Despite an old digital watch being a better timekeeper, or modern smart watches having loads more genuinely useful functionality, the mechanical wrist watch is still very much a desired and coveted item. I'd argue that a good old fashioned petrol engined car has a lot more to it than a watch, so I see them maintaining that desirability and pleasure of ownership. If new ones get banned then the old ones will only go up in value.

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by winther1

If you are into cars, you enjoy the sound and the mechanics of a petrol powered car. Yes, some EV's give you the option to get a V8 sound through speakers - but really.....

I would counter that by saying that what you describe is not wider "car enthusiasm" but a much narrower band of petrol powered enthusiasm. To me, the interest in cars runs far wider than simply the powertrain. And electric powertrains bring abilities that petrol cars can never have.

Enthusiasts have been declaring the end of the car as we know it for as long as I have been interested in cars, which stretches back to the mid-80s. We seem to still enjoy our cars despite the addition of ABS, power steering, electronic driver aids, traction control, automatic gearboxes, turbos, weight gain, yadda yadda yadda. All of which, and many others, were meant to destroy our driving pleasure before they became mainstream.

Traffic and enforcement has reduced driving pleasure far more than all of the technical advancements have or will ever do.

[RobUK]

I'm wondering if buying a decent petrol car in 2029 could actually become an investment opportunity?

[winther1]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

I would counter that by saying that what you describe is not wider "car enthusiasm" but a much narrower band of petrol powered enthusiasm. To me, the interest in cars runs far wider than simply the powertrain. And electric powertrains bring abilities that petrol cars can never have.

Enthusiasts have been declaring the end of the car as we know it for as long as I have been interested in cars, which stretches back to the mid-80s. We seem to still enjoy our cars despite the addition of ABS, power steering, electronic driver aids, traction control, automatic gearboxes, turbos, weight gain, yadda yadda yadda. All of which, and many others, were meant to destroy our driving pleasure before they became mainstream.

Traffic and enforcement has reduced driving pleasure far more than all of the technical advancements have or will ever do.

Yes, there has been many advances within the motoring industry, some I'm sure were seen with scepticism by enthusiasts.
But what always remained were manufacturers producing cars aimed at the joy of driving. I see less of that focus in the EV era. Certainly, taking away the sound is a huge step in the wrong direction for some. More so than ABS, power steering etc. Ie, an automatic Lambo vs a Lambo with no sound...

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by winther1

Yes, there has been many advances within the motoring industry, some I'm sure were seen with scepticism by enthusiasts.
But what always remained were manufacturers producing cars aimed at the joy of driving. I see less of that focus in the EV era. Certainly, taking away the sound is a huge step in the wrong direction for some. More so than ABS, power steering etc. Ie, an automatic Lambo vs a Lambo with no sound...

And I would say that adding instant torque brings a much bigger positive than the negative of losing mechanical sound.

Have you driven an electric car? My only experience is a Model X, which I felt was a more fun drive than the car I owned at the time (a 440i). Very flawed in many ways, the power source and delivery was not one of them.

[JustChris]

I have a cunning plan. Its going to work I know it

• Sensible - Obtain GR Yaris for an excellent all weather daily run around and fantastic car
• Sensible - House move (rental property has been offloaded and all ready for this now, actually looking at a move to the in-laws .... waiting on them).
• Partially Crazy - 992 991S Manual, AeroKit, sunroof = happy for life car but not DD

I don't see an EV happening for quite some time yet until better, cheaper and fully main stream. Not overly enthusiastic about them so not keen to fund as an early adopter. The 911 cliche maybe but for a wee lad like myself growing up was always the aspirational end game car.

[winther1]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

And I would say that adding instant torque brings a much bigger positive than the negative of losing mechanical sound.

Have you driven an electric car? My only experience is a Model X, which I felt was a more fun drive than the car I owned at the time (a 440i). Very flawed in many ways, the power source and delivery was not one of them.

I haven't driven an EV yet. I'm sure I will be impressed by the torque in a model X but sound has always been a big draw to cars. I don't think any amount of accelleration will make up for silence. Likewise, I haven't embraced Formula E for this exact reason

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Don’t want an electric vehicle until I have to have one, will be a few years of that in the future I suppose.

Don’t share the OP’s resentment of environmentalists and the “save the planet” scepticism though.

I agree that we have to head that way, the planet’s resources aren’t infinite and in the long run, probably after I’ve gone, but not my children, electric cars will be the least of our concerns.

As I said though, from a selfish point of view, I still want a petrol car and intend, if possible, to have some kind of V8 in the next few years. An M550i is a strong contender after the Q7 goes next Autumn.

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by winther1

I haven't driven an EV yet. I'm sure I will be impressed by the torque in a model X but sound has always been a big draw to cars. I don't think any amount of accelleration will make up for silence. Likewise, I haven't embraced Formula E for this exact reason

Definitely not silent, it made a right racket I'm not saying that that noise was preferable to the B58 on song!

Definitely drive one though, I did so mainly out of curiosity and came away very impressed. Even with all the preconceptions of instant torque, one pedal driving etc. , actually feeling it in practice is another matter.