[djacinto]

How's it going everyone

I have seen a few threads on this on a couple different subforums but need more specific to my situation.

So I've got a base f32 n26 xdrive, so no big grey brakes or m sport or anything. I recently switched over to some 20 inch 624m's and love them, but they make my brakes look absolutely tiny. I've been wanting to buy some Msport bbk's for some time, but am seeing if it's possible to get the budget under 1200

Now, as far as I know, this is definitely possible and I just need to know where exactly to look in terms of threads with parts and if my thought process is correct

I've been looking for 6/4 pot m5/m6 brakes but can't find any really in my budget so I've started looking at some g-chassis brakes.

I've seen this video and he seems to be able to do it, but I just couldn't figure out all the hardware needed. and he mentions it's for the e9x platform

So far, I found this adapter for the larger size, but this is for the 400mm, and these brakes from a 7 series. I also plan on looking for some 2 pot m sport rears as they seem most accessible so I'm not super worried about those at the moment.

What else would I need? is a bigger master cylinder necessary? what's the deal with the handbrake, and how do I get around it?

Thanks in advance

[cfm56d7b]

While others may have successfully created their own custom BBK from other parts, I would not recommend it.

Brakes are expensive for many good reasons. Every component has been designed to work together: rotors, pads, calipers, master cylinder pressure, multiple ECUs, and software.

Your best bet is BMW's own M Performance aftermarket brake kit. Even a slightly used M Performance brake kit (with proper coding) represents a better and safer choice than a collection of parts not intended to work together.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by djacinto

How's it going everyone

I have seen a few threads on this on a couple different subforums but need more specific to my situation.

So I've got a base f32 n26 xdrive, so no big grey brakes or m sport or anything. I recently switched over to some 20 inch 624m's and love them, but they make my brakes look absolutely tiny. I've been wanting to buy some Msport bbk's for some time, but am seeing if it's possible to get the budget under 1200

Now, as far as I know, this is definitely possible and I just need to know where exactly to look in terms of threads with parts and if my thought process is correct

I've been looking for 6/4 pot m5/m6 brakes but can't find any really in my budget so I've started looking at some g-chassis brakes.

I've seen this video and he seems to be able to do it, but I just couldn't figure out all the hardware needed. and he mentions it's for the e9x platform

So far, I found this adapter for the larger size, but this is for the 400mm, and these brakes from a 7 series. I also plan on looking for some 2 pot m sport rears as they seem most accessible so I'm not super worried about those at the moment.

What else would I need? is a bigger master cylinder necessary? what's the deal with the handbrake, and how do I get around it?

Thanks in advance

I've done several F3x brake upgrades and I wouldn't do any of the things that you suggest. Remember that the number one priority of a brake system is safety. You could literally be risking your own life and the lives of others by trying to install brake parts not designed for the car.

Having said that, there are many upgrade options that were designed for your chassis.

One already mentioned is the BMW M Performance brake kit. Discounted cost is $1,895 + $435 for rear rotors + tax + shipping from GetBMWParts website. On top of that I'd install StopTech stainless steel brake lines for $110. Installation will cost $400-$500 total from an experienced BMW independent mechanic. So your total is roughly $3,100 installed.

Below is a recent post that I wrote containing the various levels of F3x brake upgrades done the correct way with the right quality parts with realistic costs.

"Okay, you have the same brakes that my car started with from the factory:
Front Brembo 4-piston calipers over 340mm x 30mm plain rotors. Rear 1-piston Bosch over 330x20 plain rotors.

So you have three brake upgrade options while staying within the BMW F3x brake family.

1) Keep your stock F340/R330 calipers but upgrade your brake components to maximize their effectiveness. Prices are list to give you a budget ballpark. I have specific part numbers but it would take too long to write them all.

I'm also not going to do the full explanation of why each specific part. Trust me that these are the best parts by far. I've been doing F3x brake upgrades for three years. These are list prices so probably 10% could be saved by catching sales. Other prices such as used parts and labor are average prices based on my experience.

Guys might chime in saying that other parts could be had for less. Of course, they could but most are crap compared to these parts and won't meet the goal of maximizing the street performance and safety of each of these brake upgrade steps.

Keep the stock calipers- Front 340/ Rear 330 and maximize the other components.

$300 Hawk 5.0 Pads
$635 StopTech Crossdrilled
$110 Stainless Steel Lines
$52 wear sensors, SS screws
———-
$1,100 List for Parts
$500 Labor inc replace fluid
———-
$1,600 Approximate Total

Note: If someone was upgrading using stock 328i brakes that have F312mm/ Rear 300mm calipers, the pad and rotor part numbers are a little cheaper for the same exact brands and models. About $115 can be saved. So the approximate total would be just under $1,500 parts & labor.

2. Upgrade rear calipers from 330mm to 2-Piston Bosch over 345x24 rotors
The F340/R330 caliper combination tends to nose dive under heavy braking. Beefing up the rear brakes will eliminate the nose dive. Instead with F340/R345, when you push the brake pedal to the floor, the car will squat under control to a full stop.

Additional Costs Above #1
+$500 Used rear 345 calipers
+$50 Hawk 5.0 higher cost
————
+$550 to upgrade rear calipers

3. Upgrade Front Calipers from Brembo 340mm to 370mm
This doesn't add much actual stopping power since the 340 & 370 calipers are nearly identical. What it does do is supplies a larger rotor with more mass to soak up heat to prevent brake fade from hard use. This difference is really apparent when driving hard or tracking. The bigger 370mm front rotors appear more substantial so there's the bling aspect!

Additional Cost Above #1 & #2
+$600 Used 370 Calipers

Note: If you have stock grey or blue front 340mm Brembo calipers they can often be sold for $300-$400. The blue will probably fetch $50 more than grey.

4. Maximize 370 Calipers
The front brakes do most of the work under hard braking. Even more performance can be gotten out of the front brakes with a true racing type full floating crossdrilled front rotor. The bite of these rotors combined with the bite of the Hawk 5.0 pads is just amazing on the street.

Additional Cost Over #1/#2/#3
$1,250 StopTech Crossdrilled Full Floating

Note: Sometimes calipers need painting or refinishing. There are two good options:
1. G2USA Caliper Paint which can be easily applied on the car. The cost including cleaning supplies varies depending on stock or custom color from $85-$150
2. Powder Coating- involves complete removal from car, disassembly, media blasting, powder coating, rebuilding with new seals, caps, pins and clips. Plan on 2-3 weeks and roughly $350 total parts & labor.

TO SUMMARIZE:
Estimated Parts & Labor

$1,600 Keep Existing Calipers- maximize street braking performance

$2,150 Upgrade Rear Calipers- maximize street braking performance

$2,750 Upgrade Front & Rear Calipers- maximize street braking performance

$4,000 Maximize F3x Brakes with largest Brembo calipers, best street performance pads, front race style full floating crossdrilled rotors and stainless steel brake lines.

Just to put these costs in perspective, next level up F3x Big Brake Kits with 6-piston front calipers and 4-piston rear calipers from StopTech, BremboGT and AP Racing cost between $6,500-$8,500 installed.

Hope this is a helpful overview to understand the upgrade levels of F3x brakes and the approximate associated costs to upgrade for maximum street braking performance."

[djacinto]

Originally Posted by johnung

I've done several F3x brake upgrades and I wouldn't do any of the things that you suggest. Remember that the number one priority of a brake system is safety. You could literally be risking your own life and the lives of others by trying to install brake parts not designed for the car.

Having said that, there are many upgrade options that were designed for your chassis.

One already mentioned is the BMW M Performance brake kit. Discounted cost is $1,895 + $435 for rear rotors + tax + shipping from GetBMWParts website. On top of that I'd install StopTech stainless steel brake lines for $110. Installation will cost $400-$500 total from an experienced BMW independent mechanic. So your total is roughly $3,100 installed.

Below is a recent post that I wrote containing the various levels of F3x brake upgrades done the correct way with the right quality parts with realistic costs.

"Okay, you have the same brakes that my car started with from the factory:
Front Brembo 4-piston calipers over 340mm x 30mm plain rotors. Rear 1-piston Bosch over 330x20 plain rotors.

So you have three brake upgrade options while staying within the BMW F3x brake family.

1) Keep your stock F340/R330 calipers but upgrade your brake components to maximize their effectiveness. Prices are list to give you a budget ballpark. I have specific part numbers but it would take too long to write them all.

I'm also not going to do the full explanation of why each specific part. Trust me that these are the best parts by far. I've been doing F3x brake upgrades for three years. These are list prices so probably 10% could be saved by catching sales. Other prices such as used parts and labor are average prices based on my experience.

Guys might chime in saying that other parts could be had for less. Of course, they could but most are crap compared to these parts and won't meet the goal of maximizing the street performance and safety of each of these brake upgrade steps.

Keep the stock calipers- Front 340/ Rear 330 and maximize the other components.

$300 Hawk 5.0 Pads
$635 StopTech Crossdrilled
$110 Stainless Steel Lines
$52 wear sensors, SS screws
———-
$1,100 List for Parts
$500 Labor inc replace fluid
———-
$1,600 Approximate Total

Note: If someone was upgrading using stock 328i brakes that have F312mm/ Rear 300mm calipers, the pad and rotor part numbers are a little cheaper for the same exact brands and models. About $115 can be saved. So the approximate total would be just under $1,500 parts & labor.

2. Upgrade rear calipers from 330mm to 2-Piston Bosch over 345x24 rotors
The F340/R330 caliper combination tends to nose dive under heavy braking. Beefing up the rear brakes will eliminate the nose dive. Instead with F340/R345, when you push the brake pedal to the floor, the car will squat under control to a full stop.

Additional Costs Above #1
+$500 Used rear 345 calipers
+$50 Hawk 5.0 higher cost
————
+$550 to upgrade rear calipers

3. Upgrade Front Calipers from Brembo 340mm to 370mm
This doesn't add much actual stopping power since the 340 & 370 calipers are nearly identical. What it does do is supplies a larger rotor with more mass to soak up heat to prevent brake fade from hard use. This difference is really apparent when driving hard or tracking. The bigger 370mm front rotors appear more substantial so there's the bling aspect!

Additional Cost Above #1 & #2
+$600 Used 370 Calipers

Note: If you have stock grey or blue front 340mm Brembo calipers they can often be sold for $300-$400. The blue will probably fetch $50 more than grey.

4. Maximize 370 Calipers
The front brakes do most of the work under hard braking. Even more performance can be gotten out of the front brakes with a true racing type full floating crossdrilled front rotor. The bite of these rotors combined with the bite of the Hawk 5.0 pads is just amazing on the street.

Additional Cost Over #1/#2/#3
$1,250 StopTech Crossdrilled Full Floating

Note: Sometimes calipers need painting or refinishing. There are two good options:
1. G2USA Caliper Paint which can be easily applied on the car. The cost including cleaning supplies varies depending on stock or custom color from $85-$150
2. Powder Coating- involves complete removal from car, disassembly, media blasting, powder coating, rebuilding with new seals, caps, pins and clips. Plan on 2-3 weeks and roughly $350 total parts & labor.

TO SUMMARIZE:
Estimated Parts & Labor

$1,600 Keep Existing Calipers- maximize street braking performance

$2,150 Upgrade Rear Calipers- maximize street braking performance

$2,750 Upgrade Front & Rear Calipers- maximize street braking performance

$4,000 Maximize F3x Brakes with largest Brembo calipers, best street performance pads, front race style full floating crossdrilled rotors and stainless steel brake lines.

Just to put these costs in perspective, next level up F3x Big Brake Kits with 6-piston front calipers and 4-piston rear calipers from StopTech, BremboGT and AP Racing cost between $6,500-$8,500 installed.

Hope this is a helpful overview to understand the upgrade levels of F3x brakes and the approximate associated costs to upgrade for maximum street braking performance."

That's exactly what I needed to hear I appreciate it

[djacinto]

Originally Posted by cfm56d7b

While others may have successfully created their own custom BBK from other parts, I would not recommend it.

Brakes are expensive for many good reasons. Every component has been designed to work together: rotors, pads, calipers, master cylinder pressure, multiple ECUs, and software.

Your best bet is BMW's own M Performance aftermarket brake kit. Even a slightly used M Performance brake kit (with proper coding) represents a better and safer choice than a collection of parts not intended to work together.

Those were my initial thoughts as well. I'm just needing confirmation as threads seem to be all over the place so I really appreciate the advice

[cfm56d7b]

Brakes are the only component where no-compromises approach is the only approach.

The points one gains for assembling brakes from non related parts are immediately erased when brakes fail. Worse, these points cannot be traded in for a granite decoration with personalized initials.

Keep us updated!

[johnung]

Originally Posted by djacinto

Those were my initial thoughts as well. I'm just needing confirmation as threads seem to be all over the place so I really appreciate the advice

Below are some additional comments about the M Performance Brake Kit. It's great to get brand new calipers but the kit has less than stellar pads and rotors. It would be tough for me personally to pay a premium for new parts knowing that they look great, but that they fall short of the best braking performance. I'd buy the kit but sell the four pads and front rotors that come with it. Install Hawk 5.0 pads, StopTech crossdrilled rotors and stainless steel brake lines with the new MP calipers.

Below is my post...
"I that you mentioned the BMW M Performance Brake Kit. That's great to obtain brand new Front 370mm and Rear 345mm calipers, but the front dimpled/slotted rotors that come with the kit are noisy and don't have the bite or rain performance of true crossdrilled rotors. The front and rear MP pads that come with the kit are average at best and put out sticky dust.

Guys do buy the MP Brake Kit for the looks because the calipers come painted red, orange or yellow. But there is no performance upgrade over the blue M Sport Brakes in 370/345. Calipers are identical except for color. And as I mentioned, there are much better rotors and pads to maximize the performance of the MPBK.

You can buy the MP kit to get brand new calipers and then sell the new front rotors to someone local because they are costly to ship. And sell the F&R pads. But you'd probably save money overall by buying a used 370/345 caliper set for about $1,100 in excellent condition.

[SantaEugence]

Contrary to the above there's no issue with playing around with different brake set ups - often enjoyable to retrofit something unique. However (and this is no doubt what the other posters meant too) your problem is budget. The cost of correctly and safely designing or buying specially fabricated brackets to fit anything larger or beyond the 370/345 M Sport/Perf set up is going to be way out of your price range. Then on top of that you've got the disc price and that goes very quickly north for anything decent and bigger than 370mm, eg 380mm M discs are double the price per corner.

Your easiest option is the 370/345 set up but with new discs and pads could be out of your budget?

[djacinto]

Originally Posted by SantaEugence

Contrary to the above there's no issue with playing around with different brake set ups - often enjoyable to retrofit something unique. However (and this is no doubt what the other posters meant too) your problem is budget. The cost of correctly and safely designing or buying specially fabricated brackets to fit anything larger or beyond the 370/345 M Sport/Perf set up is going to be way out of your price range. Then on top of that you've got the disc price and that goes very quickly north for anything decent and bigger than 370mm, eg 380mm M discs are double the price per corner.

Your easiest option is the 370/345 set up but with new discs and pads could be out of your budget?

Not necessarily. I think the biggest thing is just calipers. I'd like to get the calipers under that budget but that was just my initial ideas

[djacinto]

Originally Posted by johnung

Below are some additional comments about the M Performance Brake Kit. It's great to get brand new calipers but the kit has less than stellar pads and rotors. It would be tough for me personally to pay a premium for new parts knowing that they look great, but that they fall short of the best braking performance. I'd buy the kit but sell the four pads and front rotors that come with it. Install Hawk 5.0 pads, StopTech crossdrilled rotors and stainless steel brake lines with the new MP calipers.

Below is my post...
"I that you mentioned the BMW M Performance Brake Kit. That's great to obtain brand new Front 370mm and Rear 345mm calipers, but the front dimpled/slotted rotors that come with the kit are noisy and don't have the bite or rain performance of true crossdrilled rotors. The front and rear MP pads that come with the kit are average at best and put out sticky dust.

Guys do buy the MP Brake Kit for the looks because the calipers come painted red, orange or yellow. But there is no performance upgrade over the blue M Sport Brakes in 370/345. Calipers are identical except for color. And as I mentioned, there are much better rotors and pads to maximize the performance of the MPBK.

You can buy the MP kit to get brand new calipers and then sell the new front rotors to someone local because they are costly to ship. And sell the F&R pads. But you'd probably save money overall by buying a used 370/345 caliper set for about $1,100 in excellent condition.

Same thing I want to do, while looks are one part, I do think I would enjoy some bitier brakes as this summer I will be swapping to some steel lines and new dot4 brake fluid.

But yes looks is also something since I've got 20's with the stock 320 or whatever it is for base trim

[djacinto]

Originally Posted by cfm56d7b

Brakes are the only component where no-compromises approach is the only approach.

The points one gains for assembling brakes from non related parts are immediately erased when brakes fail. Worse, these points cannot be traded in for a granite decoration with personalized initials.

Keep us updated!

Totally agree. I was just curious to even if it's possible to retrofit these newer calipers to the f3x platforms since I find quite a few of them.

Will do though! Planning on doing it this summer when I get all my 50k maintenance stuff started and I'm out of classes

[Ennoch]

Originally Posted by SantaEugence

Contrary to the above there's no issue with playing around with different brake set ups - often enjoyable to retrofit something unique. However (and this is no doubt what the other posters meant too) your problem is budget. The cost of correctly and safely designing or buying specially fabricated brackets to fit anything larger or beyond the 370/345 M Sport/Perf set up is going to be way out of your price range. Then on top of that you've got the disc price and that goes very quickly north for anything decent and bigger than 370mm, eg 380mm M discs are double the price per corner.

Your easiest option is the 370/345 set up but with new discs and pads could be out of your budget?

I think a lot of people quite rightly play it very safe and say that factory or full purchased kits are the only way to go but ultimately physics is the only rule you need to play with if you have enough time, knowledge and money. A lot of these oddball setups can work very, very well but the big problem with them is that unless you have access to your own machine mill or lathe it can be very difficult to make things match up without a lot of extra expense, turning those cheap 6 pot calipers into a very expensive mistake.

If you know the piston sizes of the calipers then you can easily work out the fluid displacement against your stock set up. This will also give you an idea of the relative hydraulic advantage (leverage, basically) that you will get from your upgrade. The other thing to bear in mind is the balance front to rear (you generally can't use front calipers on the rear because the piston diameters are way too big which messes with power and pedal travel, unless you have a correspondingly massive set on the front and a big enough master cylinder to work it all.

To the OP, given you can make the F30 brakes fit on an E90 I imagine anything big that you can make work on the E90 can similarly be modified to fit the F30. Whether it's worth the cost over some of the more established routes can only be decided by you and what engineers cost locally to you, and what the base parts cost. An example over here in the UK is that certain Renault Megane and Alfa Romeo calipers can be used to create a cost effective big brake kit, but only if you can source certain bits cheaply. While I've got AP CP5200 brakes on my Impreza, a much more expensive route, these Megane calipers actually give a fraction more power on paper and a sharper feel as the pistons are all equal.

My belief is that the stock brakes on these cars are designed for visuals in mind as the pads are pretty small for the size of the caliper, albeit they are also found on the M cars. A true BBK from the likes of AP or Brembo will use a caliper that is no bigger but will have different piston arrangements and bigger pad surface area which will help performance to a degree. If you want looks then I suspect the cheapest and easiest route, unless you have easy/cheap access to a machine shop, will be to find some of the stock 370mm brakes from a different F series car. Even with the stock discs and pads in them you're still going to have braking that is superior to what you have now.

[Belong]

I had the Msport brakes fitted to my daily touring, and upgraded them with M3 brakediscs front and rear and my brackets.

Have these for 340 calipers to 380 m3 , also other ones for 370 calipers to 380 m3 disc
and for the P240 - P244 rear calipers to 370mm m3 disc

Looks 1000 times better then before..














And yeah i know, car is dirty a fck.. standing al winter in the shed

[cfm56d7b]

Belong, in one the pictures I suspect KW coilovers are showing their presence. Which ones?

[Tommi_Mav]

Originally Posted by Belong

I had the Msport brakes fitted to my daily touring, and upgraded them with M3 brakediscs front and rear and my brackets.

Have these for 340 calipers to 380 m3 , also other ones for 370 calipers to 380 m3 disc
and for the P240 - P244 rear calipers to 370mm m3 disc

You just show us how M3 brakes look on a M3 car ....something we already know.
I guess you mean you have caliper adaptors (brackets) to install these rotors with a 340 caliper on a F3x. Would help to show us these pics...

[Belong]

Originally Posted by Tommi_Mav

You just show us how M3 brakes look on a M3 car ....something we already know.
I guess you mean you have caliper adaptors (brackets) to install these rotors with a 340 caliper on a F3x. Would help to show us these pics...

Does this look like ///M suspension to you?? good thing we have an expert on our sides from Greece.



this is my F81 ( which is for your information my daily F31 ) and is running F3* suspension like all F3* do ( even in Greece! )

[Belong]

Originally Posted by cfm56d7b

Belong, in one the pictures I suspect KW coilovers are showing their presence. Which ones?

KW V2

[Tommi_Mav]

Originally Posted by Belong

Does this look like ///M suspension to you?? good thing we have an expert on our sides from Greece.



this is my F81 ( which is for your information my daily F31 ) and is running F3* suspension like all F3* do ( even in Greece! )

No need to be so aggressive in your comment. My comment was just an honest one based on the pictures you had posted, where by no means anyone can see an F31 like above. Nor am I able to know which car everybody owns in the forum.

Couldn't of course have imagined that you made all the bodywork to transform your F31 to an one-off F81! Amazing result btw. I really like the total look and quality of work.
Is it the tanzanite blue or am I wrong?

[Belong]

Originally Posted by Tommi_Mav

No need to be so aggressive in your comment. My comment was just an honest one based on the pictures you had posted, where by no means anyone can see an F31 like above. Nor am I able to know which car everybody owns in the forum.

Couldn't of course have imagined that you made all the bodywork to transform your F31 to an one-off F81! Amazing result btw. I really like the total look and quality of work.
Is it the tanzanite blue or am I wrong?

Its all good...

Its Imperial Blue Pearl... and thankyou


* just reading this after i send you the reply pm *

[Belong]

[djacinto]

Originally Posted by Belong

Its all good...

Its Imperial Blue Pearl... and thankyou


* just reading this after i send you the reply pm *

Imperial blue pearl? I have imperial blue metallic, is that different?

Absolutely amazing though, did you get your front rotors bored too?

[Belong]

Originally Posted by djacinto

Imperial blue pearl? I have imperial blue metallic, is that different?

Absolutely amazing though, did you get your front rotors bored too?

Imperial Blue is Imperial Blue


Bored front discs? no those are stock M3 / M4 380/370 mm discs