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      11-11-2008, 02:10 PM   #1
sparkyg
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Question Anyone Changing Oil Grade for Winter

I am up in Canada and I am going to try to get my oil changed to Mobil 1 0W-40 after the 1200 mi break-in.

Anyone else changing oil grade for the winter?

My problem is that it gets cold here, really cold, so thinner oil really is what everyone does in the winter. At least 5 weight anyhow.

Thx.
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      11-11-2008, 03:01 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkyg View Post
I am up in Canada and I am going to try to get my oil changed to Mobil 1 0W-40 after the 1200 mi break-in.

Anyone else changing oil grade for the winter?

My problem is that it gets cold here, really cold, so thinner oil really is what everyone does in the winter. At least 5 weight anyhow.

Thx.
I had this same issue with my E46/S54 and I was told by BMW Canada that if I used other than the 10/60,my engine warranty would be gone.It made no sense to myself so I did run the 0/40 Mobil 1 with no ill effects.At least with that oil it would start at -35c at a friends cottage when we were up sledding.

Can you put a coolant preheater on the S65?
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      11-11-2008, 03:07 PM   #3
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Why would you do that? Do you think BMW is stupid?
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      11-11-2008, 03:23 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FStop7 View Post
Why would you do that? Do you think BMW is stupid?
You quite obviously have not lived in a very cold climate!10/60 will not even pour at temps much less allow an engine to crank enough to start that we can get even a short distance north of the city,much less allow an engine to crank enough to start.In the winter in most of the vehicles that we had 0-20 or 0-40 is what we have used in recent times.
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      11-11-2008, 03:44 PM   #5
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I repeat the question.

Do you think BMW is stupid?

Do you not think they test this stuff?

They take their cars past the Arctic Circle for cold weather testing.

At least why not ask them?
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      11-11-2008, 03:52 PM   #6
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I am sure if the engine eats it they will test it but I am not talking about tracking the car with 0-40 in it. Hell, with 10-60 I am not sure then oil will ever get thin in the 20 minutes it takes to get home.

The most engine damage occurs in the first 1-2 minutes when the oil is cold and does not flow. The thinner oil gets to the valve train faster and gets to all the engine parts faster.

I agree that 10-60 is recommended by BMW.

I am asking if anyone is doing it or has pursued doing it with BMW.
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      11-11-2008, 04:00 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FStop7 View Post
I repeat the question.

Do you think BMW is stupid?

Do you not think they test this stuff?

They take their cars past the Arctic Circle for cold weather testing.

At least why not ask them?
That was also 6 years ago and a lot has changed since then,but that was the response from them at that time.I had problems with low oil temps in -30 temps with that car in that it never warmed up to normal temps.
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      11-11-2008, 04:11 PM   #8
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I will call the dealer tomorrow, I am sure they will need to call BMW Canada and they won't know either.

The answer I suspect will takes weeks to get. It will be interesting though.
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      11-11-2008, 04:18 PM   #9
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I used to live in Toronto and my old m3 (e46) started up just fine in -30 Celsius weather. A little rough but no ill effects came from it.. my 0.02 Stick to what they recommend for the car. Engine oil is the last place you want to be making your own decisions. BMW engineers > you & I.
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      11-11-2008, 05:21 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkyg View Post
I am up in Canada and I am going to try to get my oil changed to Mobil 1 0W-40 after the 1200 mi break-in.

Anyone else changing oil grade for the winter?

My problem is that it gets cold here, really cold, so thinner oil really is what everyone does in the winter. At least 5 weight anyhow.

Thx.
When I was going to utilize Mobile One I contacted them and since they did not have a 10W 60 available they strongly recommend following the BMW manual. And I asked again at my 1200 mile service and the dealer told me that if I use anything other than 10W 60 in the M3 engine that should something go wrong that the warranty might not be honored. Notice they said "might not". But when I phoned the customer service toll free number in the USA, I was told Mobile One was ok, go figure. Also please don't confuse the 10W 60 with a real thick oil. The number that the W appears behind is as thick as the oil will ever be. The other number simply means that the oil will have the viscosity protection of that of 60 weight oil. Multi viscosity oils in general should be good for cold weather starting. I know that extreme cold weather such as Alaska and Canada may be slightly different. You should be fine.
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      11-11-2008, 05:42 PM   #11
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I was considering the Mobil 1 5W-50. We'll see what they say.
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      11-11-2008, 08:23 PM   #12
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I might be wrong about this oil in the cold as the data sheet shows a pour point of -51c.I know I checked this a long time ago and I thought the pour point was much higher which is why I was concerned about using this oil in the winter.

http://129.35.64.91/bpglis/lubtds.ns...1?OpenDocument


__________________________________________________ _____________________

EDGE 10W-60
SAE 10W-60 for special BMW M-Series engines
__________________________________________________ ______________________________

Applications

Castrol EDGE 10W-60 is a fully synthetic engine oil offering exceptional protection for high performance engines.

This product is the sole oil approval for certain BMW M series eg M5, plus Z8.


__________________________________________________ ______________________________

Features / Benefits

Delivers performance that has been designed especially for the BMW M-series.

High degree of engine protection at elevated high and low temperatures.

Fully synthetic technology.


__________________________________________________ ______________________________

Specifications / Performance

BMW approval for M series and Z8 models.
API SJ/CF

__________________________________________________ ______________________________

Storage

All packages should be stored under cover. Where outside storage is unavoidable drums should be laid horizontally to avoid the possible ingress of water and the obliteration of drum markings. Products should not be stored above 60°C, exposed to hot sun or freezing conditions.



__________________________________________________ ______________________________

Health, Safety and Environment

Health, safety and environmental information is provided for this product in the Materials Safety Data Sheet. This gives details of potential hazards, precautions and First Aid measures, together with environmental effects and disposal of used products.
Castrol (UK) Ltd. or its subsidiaries will not accept liability if the product is used other than in the manner or with the precautions or for the purpose/s specified. Before the product is used other than as directed, advice should be obtained from the local Castrol office.

__________________________________________________ ______________________________

Typical Characteristics
__________________________________________________ ______________________________

Test Methods Units Value:
__________________________________________________ ______________________________

SAE 10W-60

Test Method(s) Unit Typical
Relative Density 15°C ASTM D4052 0.864
Appearance Visual Clear & Bright
Viscosity 100°C ASTM D445 mm²/s 24.2
Viscosity 40°C ASTM D445 mm²/s 161
Viscosity Index ASTM D2270 None 179
CCS -25°C ASTM D5293 cP 4860
Flash Point, PMCC ASTM D93 °C 200
Ash, Sulphated ASTM D874 % wt 1.1
Total Base Number, TBN ASTM D2896 mg KOH/g
Pour Point ASTM D97 °C -51

__________________________________________________ ______________________________

The above figures are typical of those obtained with normal production tolerance and do not constitute a specification.


This Data sheet and information it contains is considered to be accurate at the date of printing. No warranty or representation, expressed or implied, is made as to the accuracy or completeness of the data and information contained in this publication.

It is the User's obligation to evaluate and use products safely and within the scope advised in the data sheet and to comply with all applicable laws and regulations. No statement made in this publication shall be construed as a permission, recommendation or authorisation given or implied to practice any patented invention without a valid licence.


The Seller shall not be responsible for any loss or damage resulting from any hazards or risks identified in the data sheet and which are associated with petroleum products concerned (provided that this disclaimer shall not affect any statutory rights of the Buyer of the petroleum products concerned).


Castrol UK Ltd, Wakefield House, Pipers Way, SWINDON, Wiltshire. SN3 1RE www.castrol.com/uk
Telephone: 01793 512712
Automotive Technical Helpline: 01793 452222
Orders/Enquiries: 0845 6008125 (Workshop Customer Order Line) 0845 6008131 (Retail Customer Order Line)

Castrol Ireland, Suit 12, Plaza 212, Blanchardstown Business Park Phase 2, Blanchardstown, DUBLIN 15, Ireland www.castrol.com/ie
Automotive Technical Helpline: 1800 509 353
Orders/Enquiries: 01 866 5100


__________________________________________________ ______________________________

Date Created: 26/09/2005 09:54:22 Last Modified:20/10/2008
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      11-11-2008, 08:30 PM   #13
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The Mobil 1 0-40 has a pour point of -54c so with that news there is no point going away from the Castrol 10w-60 unless you live in Alert!

http://www.imperialoil.ca/Canada-Eng...il_1_0W-40.pdf

The 5w-50 has a pour point of -51c which is the same as the Castrol 10w-60.

http://www.imperialoil.ca/Canada-Eng...il_1_5W-50.pdf

Yeah maybe BMW does know best in this case.
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      11-11-2008, 08:35 PM   #14
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Seriously. You don't want something going wrong with your car (non oil grade change related) then bmw sees that you didn't use 10w60 and throw that in your face and say bye bye warranty.
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      11-11-2008, 09:03 PM   #15
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I have used the oil in Chicago and Denver in my E46 (including long sub-zero periods), several harsh winters, with no adverse effects. I would not recommend moving away from the the 10W-60.
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      11-11-2008, 09:09 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FStop7 View Post
Why would you do that? Do you think BMW is stupid?
Yes I do.
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      11-11-2008, 09:15 PM   #17
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I used the BMW spec 10W-60 in Minnesota last year in temps down to -20F. The noises the car made on start-up were very unnerving. If you are not racing the car at 8000 rpm, I'm sure, very sure, that 0W-40 Mobil-1 is better for the engine than the BMW spec juice.
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      11-11-2008, 09:35 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radiation Joe View Post
I used the BMW spec 10W-60 in Minnesota last year in temps down to -20F. The noises the car made on start-up were very unnerving. If you are not racing the car at 8000 rpm, I'm sure, very sure, that 0W-40 Mobil-1 is better for the engine than the BMW spec juice.
The noises that the S65 makes on a startup at 20c are unnerving
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      11-11-2008, 09:38 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radiation Joe View Post
I used the BMW spec 10W-60 in Minnesota last year in temps down to -20F. The noises the car made on start-up were very unnerving. If you are not racing the car at 8000 rpm, I'm sure, very sure, that 0W-40 Mobil-1 is better for the engine than the BMW spec juice.
I thought that also till I actually looked at the spec sheets for the different oils.I will stay with the BMW approved oil,but that is immaterial for myself this winter as my car goes away as soon as my new truck arrives.
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      11-11-2008, 09:42 PM   #20
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Manual says: "If the vehicle is operated at temperatures below -4 F for extended periods, your BMW center will be glad to recommend an optimal oil."

So, they are acknowledging that alternative spec oil will be necessary at truly low temps.
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      11-11-2008, 09:42 PM   #21
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Its not like it doesn't get cold in the winter in Germany. I'm sure they figured it out already. Not worth the risk to take it upon yourself and go against the recommendation.
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      11-12-2008, 10:13 AM   #22
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Thx for the info on the pour point, that is very interesting.

I'll see how it goes this year, a oil change is cheap, relatively speaking.

Last winter we had some -40C (-40F) days that rose to -30C as a high for the day. That was a really bad winter for us.

So far this year much milder but the worst is still yet to come.
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