[micah]

You guys notice this?

http://www.bmwusa.com/PDF_359fdbcd-c...6956f39eb.arox

Check out stats on page 27. Getting a diesel adds more weight than xdrive!

[Raikkonen]

I think most people will be buying the car for it's fuel efficiency and its technology, not necessarily for its handling prowess, even though it will still handle extremely well (it's a BMW!). Although with those torque figures, that weight discrepancy will more than be made up for, not to mention the 335d will TROUNCE a stock 335 when it comes to in-gear acceleration!!!

[drexplode]

Originally Posted by micah

You guys notice this?

http://www.bmwusa.com/PDF_359fdbcd-c...6956f39eb.arox

Check out stats on page 27. Getting a diesel adds more weight than xdrive!

probably the hardware for diesel after treatment process

[CaptChaos]

I believe most of the additional weight is in the engine block as it has to be more robust to handle the higher compression ratios for diesel.

[GregL]

Originally Posted by CaptChaos

I believe most of the additional weight is in the engine block as it has to be more robust to handle the higher compression ratios for diesel.

16.5:1 to be precise. By contrast, the 335 uses 10.2:1 while the V10 in an M5 uses 12:1.

[xspeedy]

Diesel engines are typically heavier than gasoline powerplants to cope with the higher compression. Also note that diesel engined cars often handle differently (poorer) from having that extra weight over the front wheels.

[John 070]

Originally Posted by Raikkonen

I think most people will be buying the car for it's fuel efficiency and its technology, not necessarily for its handling prowess, even though it will still handle extremely well (it's a BMW!). Although with those torque figures, that weight discrepancy will more than be made up for, not to mention the 335d will TROUNCE a stock 335 when it comes to in-gear acceleration!!!

It better trounce a 335i because it costs $1.10 more per gallon for fuel. In Europe it probably makes total sense. Here, I think it's more of a statement, like driving a hybrid when regular is 1.63. It's not gonna pay for itself but the owners are perfectly happy making a statement. Prius was #1 in satisfaction in the 1/09 CR with a rating of 93. The 335 was only 87, and that was for the coupe. The sedan was even lower.

[micah]

What's weird is that the weight distribution is the same as the 335i, which would indicate that the extra weight is distributed evenly and not just in the engine compartment. See the same page of the link I gave above.

[Quasimodem]

Originally Posted by John 070

It better trounce a 335i because it costs $1.10 more per gallon for fuel.

So are you saying that diesel is $1.10 more a gallon everywhere in the US right now and it is going to be $1.10 more per gallon for like the next 20 years?

I saw one place selling diesel at $2.40/gal yesterday. So I guess they must be selling gas for $1.30/gal. Right?

[Insider]

Originally Posted by Raikkonen

I think most people will be buying the car for it's fuel efficiency and its technology, not necessarily for its handling prowess, even though it will still handle extremely well (it's a BMW!). Although with those torque figures, that weight discrepancy will more than be made up for, not to mention the 335d will TROUNCE a stock 335 when it comes to in-gear acceleration!!!

only if the 335i stays in top gear, downshift and the 335d will be looking at tail-lights.

[mapezzul]

Originally Posted by micah

You guys notice this?

http://www.bmwusa.com/PDF_359fdbcd-c...6956f39eb.arox

Check out stats on page 27. Getting a diesel adds more weight than xdrive!

Diesel engines are built a lot beefier than a gas engine and there are additional components to the AD in the US.

Originally Posted by xspeedy

Diesel engines are typically heavier than gasoline powerplants to cope with the higher compression. Also note that diesel engined cars often handle differently (poorer) from having that extra weight over the front wheels.

The 335d is designed to handle the same as any other 3 series and in many aspects it tracks better (as per engineers). Additionally the spring rates, dampers, DSC and braking systems were adjusted for this model. Something that other brands would not do.

Originally Posted by micah

What's weird is that the weight distribution is the same as the 335i, which would indicate that the extra weight is distributed evenly and not just in the engine compartment. See the same page of the link I gave above.

The reason the balance is so great is simple; the engine is not all that heavier (~155 lbs.) and the other emissions devices are located towards the rear of the car. The US version of the 335d is heavier than the EU model b/c of additional emissions and engine components; including reinforcement to the lower end of the block, reshaped pistons, rods and sound deadening. Not to mention a ceramic heater in the dash.

I have written extensively on the diesels here and on Bfile.... lots of interesting stuff with this car.

And just think there are more engines in the works for us in the states (finally!) the N53 with direct injection would be a nice start.... just not going to happen in the near future 4 cylinders are more important.

[Dann902]

Don't diesel engines last longer too?

[micah]

Originally Posted by mapezzul

The reason the balance is so great is simple; the engine is not all that heavier (~155 lbs.) and the other emissions devices are located towards the rear of the car. The US version of the 335d is heavier than the EU model b/c of additional emissions and engine components; including reinforcement to the lower end of the block, reshaped pistons, rods and sound deadening. Not to mention a ceramic heater in the dash.

I have written extensively on the diesels here and on Bfile.... lots of interesting stuff with this car.

And just think there are more engines in the works for us in the states (finally!) the N53 with direct injection would be a nice start.... just not going to happen in the near future 4 cylinders are more important.

Interesting stuff! Probably should have checked your site...

[Dave_3]

Originally Posted by John 070

It better trounce a 335i because it costs $1.10 more per gallon for fuel. In Europe it probably makes total sense. Here, I think it's more of a statement, like driving a hybrid when regular is 1.63. It's not gonna pay for itself but the owners are perfectly happy making a statement. Prius was #1 in satisfaction in the 1/09 CR with a rating of 93. The 335 was only 87, and that was for the coupe. The sedan was even lower.

No more than I expect from you. I pay MORE for diesel here (living/working in a spread of European countries). I have said this so MANY times now ... but nobody buys a 335i, or M3 and tries to work out how much they could save over a smaller engined model (!). You can actually work out a break-even point with the 335D over any other BMW model because that does actually exist. BUT I, like many others, bought a 335D because of the way it drives (*) - the superior economy is a lovely bonus.

Unless you are an über-macho boy racer, you may find that you actually spend a good deal of your time in top gear. The 40% torque advantage of the 335D really becomes obvious.

And regarding weight .... the E92 M3 is heavier than a 335D, and we all know the M3 handles atrociously ...

Anybody wanting an excellent comparative review of the European 335D and 335i (press cars, stock cars and chipped cars) should check out this Magazine Article : http://vivekk.bimmerpost.com//pics/BMW%20final.pdf - the basic jist of the piece - absolutely nothing in it, boils down to preference. Want to join the discussion then pop over to : http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=174846

D.

(*) NONE of those espousing all the perceived shortcomings of the 335D have ACTUALLY driven the car. Show me one negative review of the car by those who have driven it ...

[micah]

Originally Posted by Dave_3

No more than I expect from you. I pay MORE for diesel here (living/working in a spread of European countries). I have said this so MANY times now ... but nobody buys a 335i, or M3 and tries to work out how much they could save over a smaller engined model (!). You can actually work out a break-even point with the 335D over any other BMW model because that does actually exist. BUT I, like many others, bought a 335D because of the way it drives (*) - the superior economy is a lovely bonus.

Unless you are an über-macho boy racer, you may find that you actually spend a good deal of your time in top gear. The 40% torque advantage of the 335D really becomes obvious.

And regarding weight .... the E92 M3 is heavier than a 335D, and we all know the M3 handles atrociously ...

Anybody wanting an excellent comparative review of the European 335D and 335i (press cars, stock cars and chipped cars) should check out this Magazine Article : http://vivekk.bimmerpost.com//pics/BMW%20final.pdf - the basic jist of the piece - absolutely nothing in it, boils down to preference. Want to join the discussion then pop over to : http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=174846

D.

(*) NONE of those espousing all the perceived shortcomings of the 335D have ACTUALLY driven the car. Show me one negative review of the car by those who have driven it ...

Just FYI, I am very intrigued with the 335d and didn't mean to cast any aspersions, though I admit Colin Chapman may have perceived me to. We yanks have yet to experience them and I think there's a bit of pent up curiousity. Also, sounds like from what Michael said that ours will be a bit heavier than yours.

[Dave_3]

Originally Posted by micah

Just FYI, I am very intrigued with the 335d and didn't mean to cast any aspersions, though I admit Colin Chapman may have perceived me to. We yanks have yet to experience them and I think there's a bit of pent up curiousity. Also, sounds like from what Michael said that ours will be a bit heavier than yours.

Healthy debate is great.

The sooner the US can get some 335D test drives the better. Then we can see how US driver's take to it, without relying on the same old negative nonsense put forward by those armed with but a few stats.

I'll re-iterate - It won't suit everyone's style but it is a more than credible alternative. And having that alternative is a great thing.

Colin's take on cars get's my thumbs up. Although no E92 is nimble by his standards

D.

[Tallest]

Originally Posted by Dann902

Don't diesel engines last longer too?

if your turbo and inlet manifold thingies don't break - yes, they can go for half millino kilometres and if serviced well, they will be reliable.

in general, diesels love long drives and dont like short 'doctor' runs. thats why you can buy lots of diesels in europe that did 60k miles per year.

[Insider]

Originally Posted by damadama

+50 for torque in a daily driver...a tuned 335d will walk a stock 335i also, w/ 500 ft-lbs of torque its gonna get off the line rite quick

Yeah, and a tuned 335i also has 500 ft-lbs, plus much shorter gearing than the diesel = even faster off the line

[dxb335d]

Originally Posted by Raikkonen

I think most people will be buying the car for it's fuel efficiency and its technology, not necessarily for its handling prowess, even though it will still handle extremely well (it's a BMW!). Although with those torque figures, that weight discrepancy will more than be made up for, not to mention the 335d will TROUNCE a stock 335 when it comes to in-gear acceleration!!!

Mate the 335d handles just aswell as the 335i without a doubt.

the 335d is approx 40kg heavier.

[Tallest]

guys, on same sport suspension, the cabrio is the one where you will see the difference in handling (it's sloppier, less stiff body, heavy roof) and the weight difference will be felt also in the touring, but sedan and coupe are quite close.

the 335d has a pukka engine, i'd take that over 335i any time. I love the way the diesel pulls, even my car has nearly same torque as M3.

[Dave_3]

Originally Posted by Insider

Yeah, and a tuned 335i also has 500 ft-lbs, plus much shorter gearing = even faster off the line

Yeah, for how long ? A standard 335D has a higher spec, updated gearbox than a 335i. Any 335i with 500 lbs/ft is way outwith the design limits for the 335i gearbox. Others prefer to buy off the shelf with full warranty and testing (M3 / 335D).

You take your risks (and throw away your warranty) with those 500 lb/ft "mods" in a 335i. If you don't mind voiding your warranty, it is still posiible to update the torque of the 335 D within the gearbox designed specs, more than any 335i.

Look at the magazine link that shows how quick the 335i/335D are - hard plain facts from testers who have actually DRIVEN and LOGGED the results. They are near identical.

D.

[Insider]

Originally Posted by damadama

im talking torque at the wheels, and while you are dumping your clutch and hoping to control the wheelspin, the guy with the diesel will just be able to roll on the throttle & w/o any effort be pulling pretty hard.


ill take down low torque over max horses any day of the week, especially if you are driving in hills.

Well yeah, with 500 torque you are going to have to upgrade your tires, with both gas and diesel.