[mauvro]

I'm so tempted by the new auto, sounds nearly as fun as a manual minus the inconvenience in traffic. Yeah there are other threads like this... oh well. So, what's your pick?

[Jason]

The new E92 auto transmission with its 100ms shift speed does sound pretty slick. All depends, do you sit in traffic much? If not, I'm inclined to say go with the manual for maximum control/involvement in your driving experience.

For anyone not yet familiar, here's information on the new auto transmission debuting in the E92 coupe
- http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18357

[mauvro]

anybody know how the new 6-speed automatic compares technologically to whatever else is out there

[JO3]

I sit in traffic an hour to work and an hour back home. 2 Hours a day in stop and go, and I'd still pick the manual.

I drive a manual now and it's not a problem at all. I actually get annoyed when I drive my gf's auto in traffic. If you drive the manual properly, it's actually much more work to drive the auto than the manual.

[yu]

Originally Posted by JO3

I sit in traffic an hour to work and an hour back home. 2 Hours a day in stop and go, and I'd still pick the manual.

I drive a manual now and it's not a problem at all. I actually get annoyed when I drive my gf's auto in traffic. If you drive the manual properly, it's actually much more work to drive the auto than the manual.

Maybe for you. I just sit back and step on the pedals.

[mauvro]

hm interesting perspective, how is it more work to drive the auto?

[3some]

Exactly!

[JO3]

Well first, in stop and go traffic, I have my left foot is on the clutch, my right foot is on the gas. If I want to roll forward, I simply lift the clutch to the engagement point. The car rolls forward and I push the clutch back in and the car naturally comes to a stop. I can time this right, so that I don't even have to use the brakes. In slow and go type traffic, I simply leave it in first gear. The natural engine braking which is inherent to manual transmissioned cars, slows my down enough so that I never have to use the brakes. I can control my speed completely and precisely with one pedal.

With the auto, I feel like I'm always fighting with the torque converter. Because it's always "connected" to the engine, I have to press the brakes MUCH harder to get the car to stop than a manual. And because it's not really "connected" to the engine, it's hard to get precise speed control. I lift off the brake, and it idles forward, but most of the time it's not going fast enough, so I have to move my foot to the gas pedal and give it some gas, and then when the torque converter does its thing, it makes the car kind of lurch forward so that I usually have to move my foot right back to the brakes and then press them hard to stop. It just feels like I'm always fighting with the torque converter. It doesn't provide the precision controls that I'm used to. And if you're going to drive a bimmer, aren't you driving it because it's a precision driving machine?

It's easy for people who drive autos to dismiss manual transmissions as being "too much work" but if you really know how to drive a manual, I mean, to the point where it's second nature, then it's actually easier and more rewarding. Not to mention the brake pads you save. My car has 90k miles on it, and I still have ~40% left on my FACTORY pads.

I spend 2 hours a day in LA traffic, so I kind of have this down to a science.

[yu]

It may "seem" easier to you. I don't think about all that when I'm in traffic. I need to stop, I press the brakes. I need to speed up, I press the accelerator. Pretty simple to me.

[Daneel]

Originally Posted by JO3

Well first, in stop and go traffic, I have my left foot is on the clutch, my right foot is on the gas. If I want to roll forward, I simply lift the clutch to the engagement point. The car rolls forward and I push the clutch back in and the car naturally comes to a stop. I can time this right, so that I don't even have to use the brakes. In slow and go type traffic, I simply leave it in first gear. The natural engine braking which is inherent to manual transmissioned cars, slows my down enough so that I never have to use the brakes. I can control my speed completely and precisely with one pedal.

With the auto, I feel like I'm always fighting with the torque converter. Because it's always "connected" to the engine, I have to press the brakes MUCH harder to get the car to stop than a manual. And because it's not really "connected" to the engine, it's hard to get precise speed control. I lift off the brake, and it idles forward, but most of the time it's not going fast enough, so I have to move my foot to the gas pedal and give it some gas, and then when the torque converter does its thing, it makes the car kind of lurch forward so that I usually have to move my foot right back to the brakes and then press them hard to stop. It just feels like I'm always fighting with the torque converter. It doesn't provide the precision controls that I'm used to. And if you're going to drive a bimmer, aren't you driving it because it's a precision driving machine?

It's easy for people who drive autos to dismiss manual transmissions as being "too much work" but if you really know how to drive a manual, I mean, to the point where it's second nature, then it's actually easier and more rewarding. Not to mention the brake pads you save. My car has 90k miles on it, and I still have ~40% left on my FACTORY pads.

I spend 2 hours a day in LA traffic, so I kind of have this down to a science.

This is EXACTLY right. I've never understood why people say that driving a stick is harder in bad traffic. It's MUCH easier to drive a stick in stop and go and slow and go traffic for exactly these reasons. With the auto, my leg gets tired, stomping on the brake just to stand still. With the stick, I can just shove it in neutral, and use the handbrake if necessary.

[Daneel]

Originally Posted by YuBimmer

It may "seem" easier to you. I don't think about all that when I'm in traffic. I need to stop, I press the brakes. I need to speed up, I press the accelerator. Pretty simple to me.

Who's thinking about all that? Do you "think" when you are walking, that you have to put your left leg out, shift weight to your right leg, push off with your right heel, bring your right left in front, step down, and repeat?

[shimshimhada]

My mind rots when I drive an automatic.

[yu]

Originally Posted by Daneel

Who's thinking about all that? Do you "think" when you are walking, that you have to put your left leg out, shift weight to your right leg, push off with your right heel, bring your right left in front, step down, and repeat?

Are you arguing that driving a manual is easier than driving an automatic? I'm sure when you've driven a manual for a long time, it's second nature and it may seem a lot easier. I'm not saying driving a manual is an inconvenience in traffic, because I wouldn't know, but I do think driving an automatic is easier than driving a stick. I'm using one foot while a person with manual needs to use both their feet and their hand. This argument is pointless really.

[David328M-Sport]

Originally Posted by JO3

With the auto, I feel like I'm always fighting with the torque converter. Because it's always "connected" to the engine, I have to press the brakes MUCH harder to get the car to stop than a manual.

No problem with fighting my torque converter. Maybe your car - or those autos you have tried may have had a problem. When I want the car to stop, I press the brakes and it stops and hold the car still effortlessly.

Now BMW in all their wisdom, program the car to release the torque converter from the engine after a predetermined time (waiting at multi intersection red lights or train boom gates) anyway. Not sure how long the wait is, but there is no fight.

I am very happy with my steptronic tranny in my e90, the first BMW auto that I bought after 2 stick BMWs.

[JO3]

I didn't mean to offend all the automatic drivers out there. But it's pretty obvious a lot of you don't even know what a torque converter is, or how it works.

No one said driving an auto was hard. I'm just saying driving a manual is no harder. I know most of you won't be able to wrap your minds around that, and that's fine.

And if you don't even know how to drive a manual, and are still going to insist that it is too "difficult," then more power to you. You just keep doing what makes you happy.

Ignorance is bliss!

[juicytofu]

Originally Posted by JO3

Well first, in stop and go traffic, I have my left foot is on the clutch, my right foot is on the gas. If I want to roll forward, I simply lift the clutch to the engagement point. The car rolls forward and I push the clutch back in and the car naturally comes to a stop. I can time this right, so that I don't even have to use the brakes. In slow and go type traffic, I simply leave it in first gear. The natural engine braking which is inherent to manual transmissioned cars, slows my down enough so that I never have to use the brakes. I can control my speed completely and precisely with one pedal.

I sometimes do that as well. But what holds me back is that I worry it might damage the clutch or wear it out sooner. Anyone can verify this?

[akhbhaat]

I'd seriously consider SMG-III or a DSG/ZSG type box, but I have no interest in a torque converter auto. Given that (even with 100 ms shift times) or the three pedal, I'll stick with the three pedal.

[Daneel]

Originally Posted by akhbhaat

I'd seriously consider SMG-III or a DSG/ZSG type box, but I have no interest in a torque converter auto. Given that (even with 100 ms shift times) or the three pedal, I'll stick with the three pedal.

I'd consider SMG-IIII or DSG /ZSG if I intended to regularly track the car. For the street, I'd prefer the stick: there is more "emotion" involved. Sounds lame, but that's how I feel about it.

In response to someone who posted higher up, I'm not saying that *learning* to drive a stick is easier than learning an auto, but once you are comfortable with the stick, it is *no harder* to drive the stick in stop-and-go traffic, and with crappy autos (namely, the Toyota Camry and Chevy Malibus that Enterprise rents to me---I'm under 25 so Hertz won't play ball) are more annoying than convenient. I'm glad to see that the BMW steptronic has features to decouple the converter from the engine when the car is stopped for an extended period of time.

Btw, this is off-topic but how long has VW used the DSG box? I remember a few years ago, a cousin of mine was showing off his mom/dad's new Passat and claiming how the steptronic system was superior to a manual, because it offered the same "control" as a manual but could be put in an auto mode. I can't imagine that the Passat had DSG in 2001, but I might be wrong.

[JO3]

Originally Posted by juicytofu

I sometimes do that as well. But what holds me back is that I worry it might damage the clutch or wear it out sooner. Anyone can verify this?

It wears the clutch as much as any launch from a stop. Just don't ride it.

[firstkill]

HAH so now make your traffic situation on a HILL
then it requires a little more work than an auto.

i just came out of a manual and now I got auto... im still 50/50
on it cuz i think the bmw steptronic is very average.


~fk

[JO3]

Originally Posted by Daneel

I'd consider SMG-IIII or DSG /ZSG if I intended to regularly track the car. For the street, I'd prefer the stick: there is more "emotion" involved. Sounds lame, but that's how I feel about it.

I totally agree. For me, this is the reason: when I'm driving through the twisties, or zipping through the canyons, I'm never timing myself. I'm just shifting and smiling. That's what I use my car for and it's perfect for me. If I actually got around to tracking my car, or doing timed competition, then it would be a different story.

[JO3]

Originally Posted by firstkill

HAH so now make your traffic situation on a HILL
then it requires a little more work than an auto.

i just came out of a manual and now I got auto... im still 50/50
on it cuz i think the bmw steptronic is very average.


~fk

That's why the BMWs have Hill Assist, where it holds the brake so you can get into gear

No more excuses!