[bsjd00]

Some of you may have seen pictures I posted in the past about my two cars – a 2006 A4 and a 2006 330xi. Why I have these two cars is a long story, but to make a long story short, I will be selling the A4 soon.

I’ve been alternating between driving the two cars over the past few weeks, and it’s given me a chance to thoroughly compare the two. Needless to say, in my opinion the BMW is the superior car. There is one thing that seems off though: the less-powerful A4 seems a little quicker around town. From a stop sign, the A4 seems light and jumpy while the 330xi seems a little more heavy off the line. Don’t get me wrong, it’s still a fast car (and faster than the A4 once it’s rolling.)

The weight of the cars is similar: 3549 for the Audi vs. 3627 for the 330xi. The A4 is rated at 200 HP (though most people say this is underrated by about 20 HP) vs. 255 HP for the 330xi. And torque for the A4 is 207 lb-ft at 1800-5000 RPM v. 220 lb-ft at 2750 RPM for the 330xi.

Since weight is about the same, I have two theories and would like the board’s feedback on why the A4 seems a little zippier off the line:

• Is it the fact that the A4’s torque peaks at 1800 RPM vs. 2750 RPM for the 330xi?
• Or could it be the heavier rotational mass of the 18” 162 wheels? Do the smaller 17” wheels of the Audi really make a difference?

Whatever the case, I want to make sure that everyone understands I think the 330xi is a phenomenal car. After all, I had the choice of selling one and it’s the BMW that will stay in my garage.

I'm also curious if the shifter and steering loosen up on the 330xi. I have 1200 miles on it and it seems considerably tighter than the A4 with 3000 miles.

Thanks for any feedback...

[ward]

since they're both drive by wire a more advanced throttle curve could make it feel peppier off the line

[BMerDRMer]

Thanks for the feedback BSJD ...... I think the turbo and torque at low end are what you are feeling ........ I had a 2002 VW TUrbo Beetle a couple years back ....... torque peaked and flatlined at 1500 RPM (can't recall what it was?) ........ have to say, stop sign to stop sign, felt a bit faster than my 330Xi, though I sure wouldn't trade it !

I am looking forward to 335 coupe though ....... well implemented turbo is great fun for in town driving ......... tested a lot of cars ..... although it gets marginal reviews, the Volvo S40 turbo reminded me a lot of the VW implementation ......... same kind of off the line feel. FElt even better than the A4 I tested a few times.

[carlosng]

I drove a 2005 audi a4 1.8t quattro, manual and have a 2006 330i auto. I do agree that off the line the 330is a bit sluggish, many be by design. I feel the throttle response on the 330 is progammed to lag for some reason. Even the e46 325/330 is quicker off the line.
It makes you feel the car is not programmed to tap onto the 255 hp completely. May be some tuning will help. I happen to have driven a loaner 06 e90 325 and it really jumps off the line and the engine made you want to drive faster, as opposed to the 330i which makes you tend to drive easy. I am not sure what dealer had done to the 325i. The sad thing is the audi a4 3.2 is supposed to be in the same league as the 330 and I am afraid the A4 3.2 will be a faster car than the 330. We are jsut comparing 330 and A4 2.0t now.

[Hej]

Originally Posted by bsjd00

• Is it the fact that the A4’s torque peaks at 1800 RPM vs. 2750 RPM for the 330xi?

Yes.

[SteVTEC]

Gearing for the Audi is:

1st: 3.67:1
final: 3.89:1
overall 1st: 14.2763

Gearing for the BMW is

1st: 4.35:1
final: 3.15:1
overall 1st: 13.7025


So the Audi has a slightly more aggressive 1st gear which helps. It's also moving 78 lbs less which will make a small difference. And you're right also, the 18's on the BMW will have more intertial resistance to acceleration than the 17's on the Audi unless the wheels on the BMW are incredibly lightweight. So all of that does seem to add up and correlate well with your butt dyno impressions.

[BKsBimmer]

Originally Posted by carlosng

The sad thing is the audi a4 3.2 is supposed to be in the same league as the 330 and I am afraid the A4 3.2 will be a faster car than the 330. We are jsut comparing 330 and A4 2.0t now.

330i and 330xi are faster than the Audi A4 3.2:

A4 3.2
Power: 255hp@6500rpm
Torque: 243 lb-ft@3250 rpm.
0-60 in 6.7sec manual / 6.8 sec auto.
Top speed 130.

330i and 330xi
Power: 255hp@6600rpm.
Torque: 220 lb-ft@2750rpm.
330i 0-60 in 6.1 sec. manual / 6.3sec auto.
330xi 0-60 in 6.3 sec manual / 6.6sec auto.
Top speed 149 - 150 w/sport package

[visor]

What you're experiencing is probably the "sensitive throttle" phenomenon, which is quite pronounced in American cars. Fortunately, BMW's aren't like this.

With such cars, the throttle is non-linear and is super sensitive in the first few inches of pedal travel, which gives the driver a false sense of power. Good for stoplight to stoplight, but difficult to modulate when you want to fine tune your speed, eg. around corners, in parking lots.

[tctic]

Originally Posted by visor

What you're experiencing is probably the "sensitive throttle" phenomenon, which is quite pronounced in American cars. Fortunately, BMW's aren't like this.

With such cars, the throttle is non-linear and is super sensitive in the first few inches of pedal travel, which gives the driver a false sense of power. Good for stoplight to stoplight, but difficult to modulate when you want to fine tune your speed, eg. around corners, in parking lots.

Agreed. When I first got my E90, I had to press the pedal down a lot more compared to my previous E46 to get it going.

[gdnyc]

I used to have an A4 1.8T and I loved that car. It handled so well. It was a fun car. I have driven the 2.0T engine. It definitely is quicker off the line than the 330xi. Obviously with 50hp more the 330 will blow it away on the highway.
What I would like to see, is the A4 3.2 vs. the 330. The have the same hp numbers.
You can't compare a 2.0T 4 cyl to 3.0 6 cyl with 50 more hp.....

[stressdoc]

An old VW beetle would seem quicker still off the line. Gearing is most of it, torque curve, transmission, throttle response curve, and small weight difference the rest.

[ChrisPA]

Originally Posted by visor

What you're experiencing is probably the "sensitive throttle" phenomenon, which is quite pronounced in American cars. Fortunately, BMW's aren't like this.

I'm (still) driving my A4 1.8T and will hopefully be in a 3 series by the end of this year. I've also driven enough rental cars to know and dislike the sensitive throttle setup you're talking about. But I don't think thats what is happening in the 1.8T - if you drive the throttle very lightly, it doesn't do much - you need to get to the point where the low rpm turbo kicks in - then you feel the strong pull. My guess is that it is just that - max torque at very low rpm - that accounts for the strong pull off the line. I hope Audi never resorts to the throttle tricks...

[carlosng]

You are correct !
But I missed the off the line pushy feel with the e46 and audi A4. Sad that we are only comparing to the 2.0t/1.8t with the 330....
i now have to step harder to prove that I stil have the powerr....wast more gas !@

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by carlosng

You are correct !
But I missed the off the line pushy feel with the e46 and audi A4. Sad that we are only comparing to the 2.0t/1.8t with the 330....
i now have to step harder to prove that I stil have the powerr....wast more gas !@

One thing I noticed about the E90 was the "hill assist" and
"comfort stop" (or something like that).
There stop thing is the computer helping the poor brake technique driver come to a smoother stop. I find it pointless and an added unnecessary complexity. If you want to stop smoother, then practice and become better at it.
The hill assist is a decent idea as it helps "hold" the car just a bit on a hill so that you can get the throttle up and come off the brake easier and quicker so as not to roll backwards. Again, skill would help that, but whatever.

The problem is that can feel the brakes NOT letting go quick enough even when you're on flat road. You get off the brake and on the throttle and you still feel a "hold" on the car, which gives the overall car a slight "sluggish" off the line feeling. I don't like it one bit.
It's yet again more computer interfence. I really wish those things were options and not standard. If you can't drive a manual properly and safely on hilly roads, then maybe get an auto. If you can't stop a BMW smoothly with it's excellent braking system, then I don't kow what to tell you. But, those things that affect overall driver feel should be left out or be able to be turned off when the driver doesn't want them on.

Anyway, in a long winded way, perhaps the "assistance" from BMW's systems is the reason why you feel the sluggish start from a stop.