[BruisedWayne]

I tried searching first.

Main question:
By how much faster in 1/4 is the bone stock coupe? in steptronic

Other questions:
Would the 2008 335i steptronic stock sedan still run 13s?

How much RWHP on average do you see on a steptronic 335 sedan?

thanks in advance!

[Turbo>NA]

Nothing, the weight is not even that big.

[BruisedWayne]

wow, that's really surprising!

[vAnt826]

Unnoticeable.

The weight difference is more effected by the options you choose.

However in the same configuration the weight difference is about 25lbs.

[JHFW89225]

isnt the E90 M3 faster than the E92 M3 by like 0.10 or something ? Maybe that would apply to the non M E90/2. I saw this in Best Motoring lol where tsuchiya run the E92 M3 then E90 M3 and the E90 was faster.

[GAaaAR]

Originally Posted by JoshuaWong1989

isnt the E90 M3 faster than the E92 M3 by like 0.10 or something ? Maybe that would apply to the non M E90/2. I saw this in Best Motoring lol where tsuchiya run the E92 M3 then E90 M3 and the E90 was faster.

Interesting... Do you have a link?

I believe the E90 is the same as the E92 in the 1/4. The E92 might have a very slight edge in handling because it rides lower.

[Bagelfast]

^ that might have to do with the E92 only getting the CF roof as option which helps in weight even further?

[E90330iS]

Weight is unnoticable, ride height is

[lib]

Originally Posted by BruisedWayne

wow, that's really surprising!

They are essentially the same car. Why did you expect much of a difference?

[hahahaha]

I am a new owner of a 09 E92 335i 6MT. Only option I have is leather seat and sport package. I got my new baby 1 month ago and love it every moment.

Since my wife’s X3 need to have a regular service, we got a 08 E90 335i loaner from dealer. That loaner is kind of fully loaded, comes with AT, premium package, sport package…. basically everything except active steering, and it has 5000 miles on the clock.

The performance of them are kind of similar on straight, but I feel the suspension setting is kind of difference. My 09 E92 seems having a better ride, when the 08 E90 is a little bit bumpier, it have a better road feel. E90's steering is a little bit nervous also. By the way, both cars are using RE050 RFT.

[Bark]

Not sure about quarter mile data, but here are some basic stats from BMW: the 0-60 times are 5.3/5.5 seconds (manual/auto) for the coupe and 5.4/5.6 seconds for the sedan. Pretty negligible difference.

FWIW, the coupe is 2.9" longer than the sedan, but 1.2" narrower. The coupe weighs 23 pounds less. The wheelbase and track width are identical. The coupe is 3 inches shorter.

[Craig@SupremePower]

+1...

Originally Posted by lib

They are essentially the same car. Why did you expect much of a difference?

[Driver72]

The difference in acceleration is pretty much unmeasurable as the weight difference is a mere 22 lbs. and the variances in each engine can and does vary by more than what 22 lbs would affect.
Look even at the 135i, it's about 150 lbs less than the 335i Coupe, but even it's acceleration numbers are pretty much no better. Some have it .1 tenth faster in the 1/4 mile, some have it equal, some have it .1 second slower. (135i is less aerodynamic though so that affects it a bit as speeds rise, then there's the exhaust which might cut 2-3 hp off the average 135i vs. 335)

Handling is a bit different though.
Though never tested side by side with a few cars, the 335i Coupe is lower (lower center of gravity = better handling and braking too) the coupe is stiffer structurally, and has slightly better weight distribution, so on a track the coupe will show a slight advantage.

In the M3's case the sedan is not faster than the coupe.
The M3 sedan is 22lbs heavier (11 lbs of which is on the roof, which is the worst place to add weight) and if the sedan has the moonroof and the coupe has the standard CF roof, the sedan is 67 lbs heavier with 56 lbs of those sitting directly on the roof, which will no doubt affect handling and braking, and a mild amount in acceleration.

However, it's debatable as to whether the 22 lbs standard difference in weight between the coupe and sedan is worth the couple grand extra you pay for the coupe in both cases. To me, in the looks department of the 335i it is, but the M3 sedan pretty much has the coupe's front end so it looks nearly as good and may not be worth the extra cost if you go with the M3 sedan WITHOUT the moonroof.

[BruisedWayne]

Originally Posted by lib

They are essentially the same car. Why did you expect much of a difference?

I guess my initial thought was the 2DR and 4DR would have significant weight deltas which would impact 1/4 ests.

[exo-ak-dk]

If you buy a

Bone Stock 335 Coupe wihtout any option and a Bone Stock 335 Sedan with any options the Sedan will be faster than the coupe...

The same applies to the M3-----The E90 M3 is faster than the Coupe version

[TheLegend]

I heard the sedan was structurally stiffer, but then I could be wrong.....

[Bark]

Originally Posted by exo-ak-dk

If you buy a

Bone Stock 335 Coupe wihtout any option and a Bone Stock 335 Sedan with any options the Sedan will be faster than the coupe...

The same applies to the M3-----The E90 M3 is faster than the Coupe version

Where do you get that info? I'm just going off what BMW's US site has listed for specs, and the coupe is 0.1 seconds faster for both the M3 and 335i, at least 0-60. I haven't seen official 1/4 mile data, perhaps that's what you're referring to. But with the same engine, slightly less weight, and better aerodynamics, I don't see why the coupe would lose in the 1/4 mile either.

As others have stated, 0.1 is negligible either way and engine variations could erase that gap altogether, but I'm curious if maybe things are different in der Nederlanden...

[stressdoc]

Originally Posted by TheLegend

I heard the sedan was structurally stiffer, but then I could be wrong.....

The B pillar gives the E90 a structural advantage, but the E92 has additional parts like the bolted on rear chassis brace and some other strengthened members that help it overcome this structural weakness.

The E90 would be the choice for rallye racing.

[cbad335]

Originally Posted by stressdoc

The B pillar gives the E90 a structural advantage, but the E92 has additional parts like the bolted on rear chassis brace and some other strengthened members that help it overcome this structural weakness.

The E90 would be the choice for rallye racing.

Yes. I had read here that the E92 has a stiffer chassis, but the lead mechanic at my local dealership told me that the E90 is indeed stiffer (because of the B pillar). When I told him I had heard differently, he laughed, and said nicely, "I get all the real specs from BMW, so I ought to know." As well, he and two of his mechanics have E90 335s.

[Staszek]

Originally Posted by Driver72

Handling is a bit different though.
Though never tested side by side with a few cars, the 335i Coupe is lower (lower center of gravity = better handling and braking too) the coupe is stiffer structurally, and has slightly better weight distribution , so on a track the coupe will show a slight advantage.
.

You posted this in another thread, where do you get your information that the coupe is stiffer. Unless I see something written on that its completely not true, the sedan is stiffer then the coupe, just by the laws of physics alone

The sedan is stiffer then the coupe. Also the weight distribution is negligible as well. E92 manual 51.2/48.8, E90 manual 51.5/48.3

The coupe has a better center of gravity and is slightly lower so with completely equal drivers it will slightly and I mean slightly out handle the sedan but with everyday drivers you will never ever be able to tell the difference since the track on the car is identical.


Just wanted to add to this post in regards to ride feel, someone asked about it in another post, because the coupe is a little less stiff it will actually ride better on streets because of the extra flex its allowed, the sedan will feel a little harder and more jump. Here is a post for another board that I am on (not my post) that lays out what I explained.

"Never has a BMW chassis based on the same platform been stiffer in the 2 door version than the 4 door version. It would require significant amount of reinforcement to make a 2 door as stiff if not stiffer (just as it would take a ton of reinforcement to make a convertible as stiff as a coupe
or sedan). ..... the E92 would have to be more than twice as stiff as the E46 coupe to be as stiff, if not stiffer than the E90. And since the E90 is no where near twice as stiff as the E46 sedan, I highly doubt the E92 is stiffer than the E90.

I'd have to say though, in the E46 the sedan is ~14,000 Nm/degree while the coupe is ~12,500 Nm/degree, and in the hands of an advanced intermediate student at the schools BMW CCA teach, they could probably tell the difference on track. However, for street use, it's hard to imagine anyone would care about the 10% or so difference typical between the coupe and sedan. Heck for the street I would probably prefer the softer chassis."

[Driver72]

Originally Posted by Staszek

You posted this in another thread, where do you get your information that the coupe is stiffer. Unless I see something written on that its completely not true, the sedan is stiffer then the coupe, just by the laws of physics alone

The sedan is stiffer then the coupe. Also the weight distribution is negligible as well. E92 manual 51.2/48.8, E90 manual 51.5/48.3

The coupe has a better center of gravity and is slightly lower so with completely equal drivers it will slightly and I mean slightly out handle the sedan but with everyday drivers you will never ever be able to tell the difference since the track on the car is identical.


Just wanted to add to this post in regards to ride feel, someone asked about it in another post, because the coupe is a little less stiff it will actually ride better on streets because of the extra flex its allowed, the sedan will feel a little harder and more jump. Here is a post for another board that I am on (not my post) that lays out what I explained.

"Never has a BMW chassis based on the same platform been stiffer in the 2 door version than the 4 door version. It would require significant amount of reinforcement to make a 2 door as stiff if not stiffer (just as it would take a ton of reinforcement to make a convertible as stiff as a coupe
or sedan). ..... the E92 would have to be more than twice as stiff as the E46 coupe to be as stiff, if not stiffer than the E90. And since the E90 is no where near twice as stiff as the E46 sedan, I highly doubt the E92 is stiffer than the E90.

I'd have to say though, in the E46 the sedan is ~14,000 Nm/degree while the coupe is ~12,500 Nm/degree, and in the hands of an advanced intermediate student at the schools BMW CCA teach, they could probably tell the difference on track. However, for street use, it's hard to imagine anyone would care about the 10% or so difference typical between the coupe and sedan. Heck for the street I would probably prefer the softer chassis."

Well, I remember reading some article that stated something like the coupe was marginally stiffer (something like 8%) but I can't recall.
Sounds like a bunch of speculation on both parts, even that quote you posted said, "I highly doubt".

As for the other points, that's why I said "slight" advantage for the coupe.
The coupe "may" be slightly stiffer or slightly less stiff, but either way it's so small a difference, that's only really important if you are bending the chassis pretty extremely when it comes to performance results around a track.

What's more important is weight distribution and center of gravity.
The coupe is 1.1 inches lower. Not sure how that relates to it's center of gravity but all else being equal dropping the overall weight 1.1 inches is a decent amount when it comes to handling.
Furthermore, again, as I stated the coupe has "slightly" better weight distribution.
But here's the actual details for you:

Coupe is:
3571 lbs (51.2% front / 48.8% rear) or
1828.35 lbs over front wheels
1742.65 lbs over rear wheels

Sedan is:
3594 lbs (23lbs more than coupe) (51.5% front / 48.5% rear) or
1850.91 lbs over front wheels
1743.09 lbs over rear wheels

So, as you can see the sedan is carrying 23 lbs more than the coupe but 22.5 lbs more over the front wheels.
Though not a lot to be sure, it's still there.

But the more important aspect would be the center of gravity of the two cars. Everyone knows the lower the car (and therefore the cars weight) the better for handling and braking.
Again, not sure how it would be computed since clearly there's a lot more to figure out then just how much weight is in the front and how much is in the rear, but dropping 3570+ lbs 1.1 inch lower to the ground will make a measurable difference in handling, though again small.
But, surely more so than the 22.5 lbs difference in the weight distribution.

But add the two together and well, again, not significant, the advantages of the coupe is there. Unless you were taking the two cars off road and pushing the limits of their suspension the difference in structural stiffness would not be an issue on a road course or paved race track when it comes to times.


As for the M3, it's even more pronounced, since the coupe has at least 22 lbs weight savings, 11 lbs of which is on the ROOF.
Add to that the roof of the M3 coupe is .9 inches lower and the coupe definitely has a center of gravity advantage there.
Also of note the weight distribution of the M3 sedan and coupe is even more pronounced than the 335i.

M3 Coupe
3704 lbs (51.2% front / 48.8% rear) or
1896.45 lbs over the front wheels
1807.55 lbs over the rear wheels

M3 Sedan
3726 lbs (52.2% front / 47.8% rear) or
1944.97 over front wheels
1781.03 over the rear wheels

So that means the M3 sedan is carrying 48.5 lbs more over the front wheels than the rear. That's a decent amount difference.
So I don't see how the M3 sedan could ever handle quite as good as the coupe (though again a small difference, still a difference).
The Coupe has lower center of gravity (a decent amount less weight on the roof itself) and better weight distribution by a decent amount.

It's all small and trivial in of itself, but numbers are numbers.
If you are looking for all out best performance in acceleration, handling, braking, the coupe's in both regards have a SLIGHT (very slight in the 335i's case) advantage.

Now someone just needs to get the official numbers of stiffness from BMW.
The sedan may have a stiffer top due to the B-pillar (but I don't understand where that claim comes into play as you all do know the coupe has a B-pillar too right?) but what about the rest of the chassis, the coupe may be stiffer there since it's design is different?

[Staszek]

Im not going to requote your entire thread its to long lol

I agree with you on all your points except one. I said that the sedan is higher, and that the center of gravity is better on the coupe.

I would really like to see the two on a track back to back same driver and see what happens.

As for stiffness I will stand by my statement there is no way that the coupe over all is stiffer then the sedan.

Unless there is some miracle in the engineering that I am unaware of.