AR Design Downpipe Review

Former_Boosted_IS · 01-02-2009, 04:49 PM

I have debated 3" downpipes for a long time now and finally decided to pull the trigger. I have been looking over all the companies and came down to a couple of choices. Ultimately the reason I chose AR Design is because their downpipes stay 3" the longest, the quality is unsurpassed, and there has not even been a hint of the fitment issues that have plagued some manufactorers. In addition, AR Design gives you the bomb proof gaskets to replace the flimsy exhaust gaskets you remove. I would strongly suggest changing the exhaust gaskets on a dp install! Andrew is an incredibly easy person to deal with and clearly an enthusiast just like every one of us. It was easy (or as easy as it gets

) to give my money to Andrew to buy the pipes.

Packaging
When the AR Design DPs arrived, the first thing I noticed was the professional boxing and the 13 lbs on the box! They weight 13 lbs with the box, hardware, bomb proof gaskets, and pipes. They are light! Everything is very professionally boxed and protected. Here are a couple of pictures of how things arrived.

Quality

Now, for the the quality of the build. From an exterior perspective they are stunning. Stainless steel pipes, stainless steel flanges (including the v-band clamp), superior welds, perfect bends, etc. Another thing of note is that the welds are not grinded down. This was very important to me because exhaust gases get very hot and grinding those welds can weaken the downpipe ultimately leading to cracks. I have some pictures so you can see the quality alone and versus the stock downpipes. Notice the flex locations on the stock downpipes and the harsh bends / restrictions versus the AR Design pipes.

Look at the restriction behind the v-band flanges! Also you can see the stainless steel flanges here.

Installation/Fitment
The installation was time consuming, but not complicated. I used the DIY on the forum and adapted it a bit. There are very tricky t-head screws on the second heat shield that are difficult to get to. I tried the way of the forums, but deviated. I would suggest everyone doing this job take this advice... unbolt the sway bar at the bushing locations because this frees up so much more room to move the steering rack out of the way. The sway will hang from the end link bolts and open up SO much more room. This was the key for me. I used Scalberts idea and bought a Crows Foot socket to break the O2 sensor bolts and that was a piece of cake!

The fitment has to be a concern to everyone. The amount of room for play is next to zero. We have all read of the fitment issues on some DPs on the forums. My experience with the AR Design DPs is the fitment is spot on and I mean spot on. They bolted up, adjusted, and lined up nothing less than perfectly with the exhaust piping. Really, you have millimeters to work with, so perfect fitment means no rubbing the with the vehicle and no rubbing of one pipe to the other. AR Design accomplished both perfectly.

Performance
For reference, I run the 1.2 JB3. I have the full spectrum of maps that I tested on this. I have been a little skeptical about power gains on DPs to be honest and have waited a bit. I wasn't sure if the power was coming from the pipes or increased boost due to the free flowing pipes. Well, I have the answer now. I logged boost to see if there was a rise in boost across the entire rpm range. In the initial testing, there was a rise in the boost after the pipes were installed. It took about 3 runs, then the boost stabilized within 1 psi of what they were before the pipes were installed. That is about 14-15 psi on top and ~11 psi in the lower rpm range.

So is there a difference? The car pops now much harder in two locations... when you stomp the gas and as the car reaches redline. The car boosts incredibly fast now and jumps much more than it did before I installed the pipes. The car will simply and steadily pull very, very strong from a standstill until I stop pressing the gas and that is in any gear. I will be dyno'ing soon, but the difference is not placebo. In first gear, it is not impressive that it spins the tires, but what is impressive is how fast it spins the tires.

Conclusion
I have to admit I came into the project a bit skeptical. I am now a believer that downpipes make a substantial difference on the car. AR Design has made a flawless product with incredible customer service. The bottom line is I am a customer of theirs now and I will buy whatever they create in the future. I am confident they will continue to create products of unmatched quality/workmanship and I am really looking forward to the new products they bring to our community.

1clean335i · 01-02-2009, 05:00 PM

nice review!

danniexi · 01-02-2009, 05:03 PM

GREAT in-depth review! Those DPs are sexy as hell and when I do purchase a set, it'll definitely be from at designs!

jam0321 · 01-02-2009, 05:16 PM

not a fan of the weld job...looks sloppy imho

Former_Boosted_IS · 01-02-2009, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jam0321

not a fan of the weld job...looks sloppy imho

jam, while I do respect your opinion welds are not made to look pretty. The AR Design welds are extremely well done. There are companies that grind the welds down to make them look "pretty", but you are simply compromising the strength of the welds. These are being exposed to ambient temperatures up to exhaust gas temps of 700-800 degrees F in a matter of 60 seconds. Those massive temperature changes cause huge expensions and grinding them to look pretty can, and do cause cracks. Choose pretty under your where no one can see them or choose durability. I chose durability.

SfValley335i · 01-02-2009, 05:29 PM

I was just as happy with my purchase as you are. AR Design DP are great quality and their group is very fast & professional.

jam0321 · 01-02-2009, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS

jam, while I do respect your opinion welds are not made to look pretty. The AR Design welds are extremely well done. There are companies that grind the welds down to make them look "pretty", but you are simply compromising the strength of the welds. These are being exposed to ambient temperatures up to exhaust gas temps of 700-800 degrees F in a matter of 60 seconds. Those massive temperature changes cause huge expensions and grinding them to look pretty can, and do cause cracks. Choose pretty under your where no one can see them or choose durability. I chose durability.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that durability definitely outweighs looks in the DP department.
I'm not a welder by any means but the guys I know that are are always quick to pick apart these weld jobs and from my experience in the past, these would be picked apart by them too. I'll have the guys look at them and give a more professional opinion.
I'm also big enough to admit if I'm wrong...

Nexus-6 · 01-02-2009, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SfValley335i

I was just as happy with my purchase as you are. AR Design DP are great quality and their group is very fast & professional.

+1,000

Andrew is good people. The pipes are great too.

Ebanks · 01-02-2009, 07:04 PM

This is good to hear as I am dropping off my 535xi for Andrew to make downpipes off of on Wednesday. I hadn't heard/read much about them but everything I read was positive so I decided to let him have my car while I was up skiing for a few days.

I hope my experience is as positive as everyone elses I have read who has dealt with him! I am sure it will be.

dadasracecar · 01-02-2009, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS

I have debated 3" downpipes for a long time now and finally decided to pull the trigger. I have been looking over all the companies and came down to a couple of choices. Ultimately the reason I chose AR Design is because their downpipes stay 3" the longest, the quality is unsurpassed, and there has not even been a hint of the fitament issues that have plagued some manufactorers. In addition, AR Design gives you the bomb proof gaskets to replace the flimsy exhaust gaskets you remove. I would strongly suggest changing the exhaust gaskets on a dp install! Andrew is an incredibly easy person to deal with and clearly an enthusiast just like every one of us. It was easy (or as easy as it gets

) to give my money to Andrew to buy the pipes.

Seen these?

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19847

cn555ic · 01-02-2009, 08:21 PM

WOW CPE DPs are absolutely unbelievable!!!! WOW!!!!

NM_BMW · 01-02-2009, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ebanks

This is good to hear as I am dropping off my 535xi for Andrew to make downpipes off of on Wednesday. I hadn't heard/read much about them but everything I read was positive so I decided to let him have my car while I was up skiing for a few days.

I hope my experience is as positive as everyone elses I have read who has dealt with him! I am sure it will be.

Andrew@AR is a great guy. They installed my DP's on my 335xi with no problems. He is truly an enthusiast not only BMW, but all automobiles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cn555ic

WOW CPE DPs are absolutely unbelievable!!!! WOW!!!!

Those do look great and I like the cast near the v-band, but why are some manufacturers creating that dent near the v-band? I know it has to do with a fitment issue, but isn't that a restriction? And if AR can create pipes without the dent then I'm sure these other big companies could.

badass335 · 01-02-2009, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Humtek

Those do look great and I like the cast near the v-band, but why are some manufacturers creating that dent near the v-band? I know it has to do with a fitment issue, but isn't that a restriction? And if AR can create pipes without the dent then I'm sure these other big companies could.

From what I see, first, those are for the 135i and second, those are catted DP's so I assume that may be the case..

Juicer · 01-02-2009, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badass335

From what I see, first, those are for the 135i and second, those are catted DP's so I assume that may be the case..

I have the AR Design DPs on my 135i. There is no dent and the fitment was perfect

. Installed 'em myself with rhino ramps.

maui86 · 01-02-2009, 09:59 PM

you joined the bandwagon...gotta love them! amazing part, it was easier to fit the AR ones than the stockers(had to go back to stock for fuel pump).

teri

twenzel · 01-03-2009, 02:34 AM

nice review. But seriously it's spelled f i t m e n t. lol

JoeyFiasco · 01-03-2009, 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dadasracecar

Seen these?

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19847

those are some sexy looking DPs; but as others have said, what's the point of the dent? in the end I would go for the DPs that cause the least restriction and are the most durable. I'm not building a show car after all nor do I have a DP penis..

edo · 01-03-2009, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeyFiasco

those are some sexy looking DPs; in the end I would go for the DPs that cause the least restriction and are the most durable. I'm not building a show car after all nor do I have a DP penis..

+1

I don't care about the looks of PDs. I'm not going to show'em to anyone and say "look how pretty they are"

Quality and performance is what matters when talking about DPs.

Former_Boosted_IS · 01-03-2009, 10:34 AM

The CPE seem to have dents and I am not sure why the would go with a cast head? The stocks do have dents in them as well, but AR Design made theirs without the dents and my guess is to increase flow. If you can fit it, then why add the restrictions?

Former_Boosted_IS · 01-03-2009, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twenzel

nice review. But seriously it's spelled f i t m e n t. lol

Fixed!

CASHBY · 01-03-2009, 12:03 PM

is the diameter on the outlet smaller than the stock DP?

Former_Boosted_IS · 01-03-2009, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie@RissRacing

is the diameter on the outlet smaller than the stock DP?

Charlie, when you say outlet, are you referring to the exhaust or turbo end? Both have set diameters to fit the stock plumbing don't they?

01-02-2009, 04:49 PM	#1
Former_Boosted_IS Major General 307 Rep 5,175 Posts Drives: 4 Wheels Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Planet Earth! iTrader: (15)	AR Design Downpipe Review I have debated 3" downpipes for a long time now and finally decided to pull the trigger. I have been looking over all the companies and came down to a couple of choices. Ultimately the reason I chose AR Design is because their downpipes stay 3" the longest, the quality is unsurpassed, and there has not even been a hint of the fitment issues that have plagued some manufactorers. In addition, AR Design gives you the bomb proof gaskets to replace the flimsy exhaust gaskets you remove. I would strongly suggest changing the exhaust gaskets on a dp install! Andrew is an incredibly easy person to deal with and clearly an enthusiast just like every one of us. It was easy (or as easy as it gets ) to give my money to Andrew to buy the pipes. Packaging When the AR Design DPs arrived, the first thing I noticed was the professional boxing and the 13 lbs on the box! They weight 13 lbs with the box, hardware, bomb proof gaskets, and pipes. They are light! Everything is very professionally boxed and protected. Here are a couple of pictures of how things arrived. Quality Now, for the the quality of the build. From an exterior perspective they are stunning. Stainless steel pipes, stainless steel flanges (including the v-band clamp), superior welds, perfect bends, etc. Another thing of note is that the welds are not grinded down. This was very important to me because exhaust gases get very hot and grinding those welds can weaken the downpipe ultimately leading to cracks. I have some pictures so you can see the quality alone and versus the stock downpipes. Notice the flex locations on the stock downpipes and the harsh bends / restrictions versus the AR Design pipes. Look at the restriction behind the v-band flanges! Also you can see the stainless steel flanges here. Installation/Fitment The installation was time consuming, but not complicated. I used the DIY on the forum and adapted it a bit. There are very tricky t-head screws on the second heat shield that are difficult to get to. I tried the way of the forums, but deviated. I would suggest everyone doing this job take this advice... unbolt the sway bar at the bushing locations because this frees up so much more room to move the steering rack out of the way. The sway will hang from the end link bolts and open up SO much more room. This was the key for me. I used Scalberts idea and bought a Crows Foot socket to break the O2 sensor bolts and that was a piece of cake! The fitment has to be a concern to everyone. The amount of room for play is next to zero. We have all read of the fitment issues on some DPs on the forums. My experience with the AR Design DPs is the fitment is spot on and I mean spot on. They bolted up, adjusted, and lined up nothing less than perfectly with the exhaust piping. Really, you have millimeters to work with, so perfect fitment means no rubbing the with the vehicle and no rubbing of one pipe to the other. AR Design accomplished both perfectly. Performance For reference, I run the 1.2 JB3. I have the full spectrum of maps that I tested on this. I have been a little skeptical about power gains on DPs to be honest and have waited a bit. I wasn't sure if the power was coming from the pipes or increased boost due to the free flowing pipes. Well, I have the answer now. I logged boost to see if there was a rise in boost across the entire rpm range. In the initial testing, there was a rise in the boost after the pipes were installed. It took about 3 runs, then the boost stabilized within 1 psi of what they were before the pipes were installed. That is about 14-15 psi on top and ~11 psi in the lower rpm range. So is there a difference? The car pops now much harder in two locations... when you stomp the gas and as the car reaches redline. The car boosts incredibly fast now and jumps much more than it did before I installed the pipes. The car will simply and steadily pull very, very strong from a standstill until I stop pressing the gas and that is in any gear. I will be dyno'ing soon, but the difference is not placebo. In first gear, it is not impressive that it spins the tires, but what is impressive is how fast it spins the tires. Conclusion I have to admit I came into the project a bit skeptical. I am now a believer that downpipes make a substantial difference on the car. AR Design has made a flawless product with incredible customer service. The bottom line is I am a customer of theirs now and I will buy whatever they create in the future. I am confident they will continue to create products of unmatched quality/workmanship and I am really looking forward to the new products they bring to our community. Last edited by Former_Boosted_IS; 01-03-2009 at 10:35 AM..
	Appreciate 0 Tweet Quote

01-02-2009, 05:00 PM	#2
1clean335i Perf BMW mag issue 147, 159 414 Rep 6,803 Posts Drives: Project Estoril Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Miami, FL iTrader: (31) Garage List 2013 335i M-sport [0.00] 2011 X5 xdrive35i M ... [0.00] 2009 335i M-sport [0.00] 07' 335i Sedan [0.00]	nice review! __________________ '13 Estoril Blue 335i M-sport *Don't PM me!* Message me here- http://www.facebook.com/ProjectEstoril
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-02-2009, 05:03 PM	#3
danniexi Brigadier General 3072 Rep 4,393 Posts Drives: 2022 F97 X3M Comp LCI Join Date: May 2008 Location: NJ/NY iTrader: (15) Garage List 2022 BMW X3M Compet ... [10.00] 2016 BMW F80 M3 [10.00]	GREAT in-depth review! Those DPs are sexy as hell and when I do purchase a set, it'll definitely be from at designs! __________________ BMW MY22 F97 X3MC LCI - CURRENT BUILD THREAD\| Instagram: @danniexi BMW MY16 F80 M3 - GONE BMW MY08 E92 335XI - GONE BMW MY06 E46 325XI - GONE
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-02-2009, 05:16 PM	#4
jam0321 I do screenprinting and embroiderry 11 Rep 277 Posts Drives: e92 M3 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: So Cal iTrader: (0)	not a fan of the weld job...looks sloppy imho __________________ Go Big or Go Home!!! www.specopsoutfitters.com
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-02-2009, 05:29 PM	#6
SfValley335i Colonel 164 Rep 2,409 Posts Drives: Current:135i Sold:335i sedan Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: City of Angels iTrader: (8)	I was just as happy with my purchase as you are. AR Design DP are great quality and their group is very fast & professional.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-02-2009, 07:04 PM	#9
Ebanks New Member 1 Rep 9 Posts Drives: 98 Panoz, 08 535xi Join Date: May 2008 Location: Kansas City, MO iTrader: (0)	This is good to hear as I am dropping off my 535xi for Andrew to make downpipes off of on Wednesday. I hadn't heard/read much about them but everything I read was positive so I decided to let him have my car while I was up skiing for a few days. I hope my experience is as positive as everyone elses I have read who has dealt with him! I am sure it will be.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-02-2009, 08:21 PM	#11
cn555ic 441 Rep 18,331 Posts Drives: 335i Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: US iTrader: (6)	WOW CPE DPs are absolutely unbelievable!!!! WOW!!!!
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-02-2009, 09:59 PM	#15
maui86 Captain 37 Rep 738 Posts Drives: 07 335i Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: paradise iTrader: (1)	you joined the bandwagon...gotta love them! amazing part, it was easier to fit the AR ones than the stockers(had to go back to stock for fuel pump). teri __________________ http://videos.streetfire.net/video/s...rays_37268.htm gotta do what i gotta do to get them donuts 04 spec-v: rip dec07
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-03-2009, 02:34 AM	#16
twenzel Captain 53 Rep 754 Posts Drives: 15 Audi S3 Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Austin TX iTrader: (2)	nice review. But seriously it's spelled f i t m e n t. lol
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-03-2009, 10:34 AM	#19
Former_Boosted_IS Major General 307 Rep 5,175 Posts Drives: 4 Wheels Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Planet Earth! iTrader: (15)	The CPE seem to have dents and I am not sure why the would go with a cast head? The stocks do have dents in them as well, but AR Design made theirs without the dents and my guess is to increase flow. If you can fit it, then why add the restrictions?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-03-2009, 12:03 PM	#21
CASHBY 168 Rep 2,114 Posts Drives: E90 335 "done up" Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: GARAGE iTrader: (2)	is the diameter on the outlet smaller than the stock DP?
	Appreciate 0 Quote