[StreetSpeed]

Hey Guys,

New to the forum; nice place you got here. Been lurking for about a week looking for general info about the N54, mods, and what not. I'll be in the market for a 135i hopefully this summer, but if not then it will not be in the too distant future.
However, I plan to track the car quite a bit. I searched and didn't find a ton of people talking about track days (aside from 1/4 mile). I'm surprised this board isn't flooded with people talking about the experiences actually turning the wheel, but I guess an 11.xx 1/4 mile is cool too! (My GTI does a 13.8, but I haven't been back to the drag strip since I've gotten the track bug...)
So, just hoping someone could point me in the direction of a post or forum where people talk about the car on the track. My VW has been surprisingly quick, capable, and bullet proof, but it's time for more power and RWD. I'm just hoping that a modded N54 has been proven enough on the track that I'd never need to worry about anything going wrong with it. What needs to be replaced (suspension?) what doesn't (6 piston calipers!) Things to watch for, etc etc. Thanks in advance.

[timtech]

You need to go to the Tracking, Autocrossing, Dragstrip, Driving Techniques section of E90post.
http://www.e90post.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=98

[StreetSpeed]

Yeah I poked around in there but didn't really see the info I was looking for. I was hoping there'd be a sticky: "Everything you need to know about tracking your car!" but I couldn't find any info like that. Again I'm sure I could find some stuff after a few hours of searching, but I was hoping there was an easy stockpile of info somewhere. If not then I guess I'll just start digging.

[timtech]

Originally Posted by StreetSpeed

Yeah I poked around in there but didn't really see the info I was looking for. I was hoping there'd be a sticky: "Everything you need to know about tracking your car!" but I couldn't find any info like that...

I track quite a bit and went back to stock, the biggest thing for me is tires, others watch their oil temps.

If you post in that section people will start to fill it in and then request it to become a sticky.

[jadeddjay]

a couple things that i have learned from my time reading other posts

1) you probably need an oil cooler upgrade

2) upgrading sways will hurt your traction out of corners from weight transfer and lack of lsd

3) i dont think the multiple piston calipers help your stopping power too much, but moreso increasing the feel and modulation ability under braking.

4) lots of people have been going from a staggered setup to a non-stag for practical reasons.. our cars are nearly perfectly balanced so .. yea

5) there are lots of m3 suspension bits that will fit the 135. i am sure you have come across that thread

6) modified CDVs are widely available and make a pretty good difference while shifting quickly

7) lots of little weight savers can be done including forged aftermarket rims, getting rid of the RFTs, exhaust, lightweight braille battery, taking out unnecessary upholstery, carbon fiber bits if youre that hardcore

8)lots of good ssk's out there, i have the uuc one with an e46zhp knob as well as tranny mounts and encorcers from uuc

[Bubbles]

What do you need to know?
Stock pads last one day if you baby the car. You get 3-4 good laps before the ecu pulls timing. You eat through front tires unless you run camberplates. Bring six high speed fans, one for each wheel and two for the intercooler between sessions. Cg-lock for your seat belt. A quart of oil because you'll burn through half a quart. Run RBF 600 because you'll boil the stock fluid after one lap.

[O-cha]

N54 (the engine) is not meant to be tracked. Select a different car if you're interested in tracking.

[StreetSpeed]

Originally Posted by Bubbles

What do you need to know?
Stock pads last one day if you baby the car. You get 3-4 good laps before the ecu pulls timing. You eat through front tires unless you run camberplates. Bring six high speed fans, one for each wheel and two for the intercooler between sessions. Cg-lock for your seat belt. A quart of oil because you'll burn through half a quart. Run RBF 600 because you'll boil the stock fluid after one lap.

I would certainly be using dedicated track pads, wheels/tires, brake fluid, and I would also probably switch to SS lines (don't know if they already have them). I would also install 4 point racing harness (yes without a harness bar, yes I know they're dangerous...). However, the following post leaves me a bit worried. Anyone else care to chime in as to why the N54 is not meant to be tracked, and why I should look elsewhere if I intended to? I'm talking HPDE's people, 8-12 days a year (for now), nothing "competitive". I'm not looking to go wheel to wheel here. This is not going to be a race car at any point. I'll wait for a GT3 for that...

[BaLLzZz]

Originally Posted by StreetSpeed

I would certainly be using dedicated track pads, wheels/tires, brake fluid, and I would also probably switch to SS lines (don't know if they already have them). I would also install 4 point racing harness (yes without a harness bar, yes I know they're dangerous...). However, the following post leaves me a bit worried. Anyone else care to chime in as to why the N54 is not meant to be tracked, and why I should look elsewhere if I intended to? I'm talking HPDE's people, 8-12 days a year (for now), nothing "competitive". I'm not looking to go wheel to wheel here. This is not going to be a race car at any point. I'll wait for a GT3 for that...

The n54 tends to get hot. Make sure you get the sport package so the factory oil cooler is installed. You might also want to upgrade to the VK oil cooler it will defiantly benefit you at the track. Also if i was to track the car i would throw some 18' advan rs's and fresh rubber on there. As already said the cdv is great. If you really are a perfectionist get a qualife lsd. And if you get that then get sways,coils,x bar. If not just stick with the coils. I would also get an upgraded FMIC. This receipt would be amazing for the track. Any other questions feel free to post.

[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by StreetSpeed

I would certainly be using dedicated track pads, wheels/tires, brake fluid, and I would also probably switch to SS lines (don't know if they already have them). I would also install 4 point racing harness (yes without a harness bar, yes I know they're dangerous...). However, the following post leaves me a bit worried. Anyone else care to chime in as to why the N54 is not meant to be tracked, and why I should look elsewhere if I intended to? I'm talking HPDE's people, 8-12 days a year (for now), nothing "competitive". I'm not looking to go wheel to wheel here. This is not going to be a race car at any point. I'll wait for a GT3 for that...

Some 335is can run all day and have no heat problems, others are grounded after 2 hot laps. It's the luck of the draw. Maybe you'll get lucky.

The car is a great sleeper when it's cool temps.

[Kbueno]

Originally Posted by Bubbles

What do you need to know?
Stock pads last one day if you baby the car. You get 3-4 good laps before the ecu pulls timing. You eat through front tires unless you run camberplates. Bring six high speed fans, one for each wheel and two for the intercooler between sessions. Cg-lock for your seat belt. A quart of oil because you'll burn through half a quart. Run RBF 600 because you'll boil the stock fluid after one lap.

-One day on stock pads? and boiling the fluid? Which track is this...never had those problems.

Originally Posted by Bubbles

Some 335is can run all day and have no heat problems, others are grounded after 2 hot laps. It's the luck of the draw. Maybe you'll get lucky.

The car is a great sleeper when it's cool temps.

Agreed, they all run hot...it seems some just reach that threshold quicker.

[leftcoastman]

I know you're looking for a simple "one page summary" but I don't think that exists.

Search for all recent (Jan 2008+) posts from S4to335, HP Autowerks and myself. I lost count, but I think I'm approaching 50 track days on my 335i, of which 40+ were on the stock oil cooler. FWIW - I am an instructor, so I'm not exactly babying the car.

The VK Motorwerks cooler is an absolute must if you're planning to track a lot. And as Bubbles alluded, the Dinan tune isn't the best for the track as it's too aggressive with dialing back timing.

Being that I haven't blown my engine after more track days than most, I'm confident that the N54 does well on track. Properly set up, with a skilled driver, you will be faster than stock Porsche 911s but sadly still about 2-3 seconds slower than Z06 on a 2 minute track.

[Vince@ V K Motorwerks]

I would recommend an upgraded OC. We have one and so does Dinan. Both should be suffice for keeping your oil temps in check since that will be the first thing to get hot.

Next I would invest in some good track rubber.

Depending on your pockets and level of tracking experience I would then get an LSD, coilovers, and sway bars.

I have this setup along with FMIC, cat-less down pipes, CAI, and the Procede tune and my car is great on the track. I went to Gingerman raceway about 6 times in the summer and even hot lapped it to test our OC for over an hour. I only had an issue 2 out of the 6 times because the water temps in the AT get high and induce a limp code. We are working on a solution for that. The MT doesn’t have that issue. I think with the proper mods the 335i is a very capable track performer. I would just advise you to relearn your cars limits once you get the LSD since the car will spin out on you much easier then an open diff.

[vegasspeed]

I didn't have heating problems on my two track days. I do have an upgraded Oil cooler but I would suggest that anyway.

[bdkevoIX]

Originally Posted by O-cha

N54 (the engine) is not meant to be tracked. Select a different car if you're interested in tracking.

+1 there are better platforms for the track use. Tracking 335is could get very expensive. You could look into vettes or used e46 m3's for the track or even evo's if an awd doesn't bother you.

[leftcoastman]

Yeah the Vette would be nice. Not sure of costs, but I know the Z06 eats brake pads and rotors like candy. One weekend per set.

I'm very impressed with Evos, as long as they don't go massive turbo drag machine that can't be properly driven on track.

The problem with the E46 M3, M Coupe and even the E92 M3 is that a well prepped 335i will eat them alive on a road course.

I have been that well prepped 335i more than once.

And regarding oil temps - with all due respect, it very much depends on driver skill. A skilled driver will be able to get on throttle earlier and more consistently, raising oil temps faster. Another instructor on this board can easily get 290 oil temps and then his girlfriend (non-instructor) gets in the car, same day, and doesn't break 260.

[S4to335]

Track a 335i?..blasphemy! Yeah..what they said.

Staggered vs. non-staggered : I went with non-staggered to dial out the understeer. I recommend this.

Oil Cooler: Stock one is not sufficient for ongoing track use. Get something bigger/better if you can swing it.

Motor Oil: I tried 5-60W BMW motorsport oil..and while I thought it lowered temperatures slightly..not sure how much benefit it was.

Chip Tuning: I have tried SSTT and Dinan tune on track..and Stock of course..I think BMW designed the car to dial back tuning as the car gets hot..so your tuning will be ineffective when the car is really hot on track. I have not tried JB or Procede on track yet.

Coilovers: I recommend getting them...I have Bilstein PSS9s...but would do either PSS10s or TC Kline coilovers if I was to do it again. Stock is not sufficient for track use..too much roll.

Sway Bars: with a non-staggered set up you dont necessarily need bigger sway bars. I am sure I can find some people that disagree with me on this statement

Track Wheel/Tire Size: I think ideal would be a 18X9" on all four corners. I have 18X8.5 on all four corners now. As for tire size, I would suggest trying to find a 245/35/18, 255/35/18 or possibly a 265/35/18 that will fit. The problem is ...not too many tire manufacturers sell R compound tires in those sizes. BTW, with the 265 in the front..you are gonna need adjustable camber plates (TC Kline or other) and you MUST roll fenders..and probably fine tune your ride height on the coilovers to prevent rubbing in front and back.

BTW, I have about 20-25 track days on my 335i, but I have over 150 track days total. I am an instructor for Hooked on Driving, BMWCCA, and ACNA.

[e90southfl]

Originally Posted by Bubbles

Some 335is can run all day and have no heat problems, others are grounded after 2 hot laps. It's the luck of the draw. Maybe you'll get lucky.

The car is a great sleeper when it's cool temps.

Don't be turned off by Bubbles, he just has a lemon! haha

I am running stock pads with upgraded brake fluid and I am getting 3-4 track days out of them. I rarely have brake issues but I think the next best course of action would be to bring front air ducts right to the back of the rotors. Upgrading pads and rotors will only get you so far, if your not clearing the heat you create, you will still run into brake issues even with a big brake kit.

I have a square set running the Dunlop Star Specs like some of the other guys on the forum. These are great but I am moving to r-compounds in a few months.

The engine oil temp gets hot 280-290, but I have never had limp mode even after running hard for 40-60min sessions in miami during the summer! I think most people with limp mode issues have tunes.

I wouldn't mess with sway bars. The car is dialed in pretty well. I might look into possibly upgrading to the BMW Performance suspension even though it has mixed reviews.

For anyone who says the 335i is not a track car check out some in car video clips I have.

Chasing down an R8 -

Following a Porsche -

[vegasspeed]

Jesus, you run 280-290 temps at the track? That can't be good for your car.

I have only gone once since it is expensive to track your car but I love doing it. I don't see why we can't track our cars. I don't know about the E46 M3 vs. 335i comment. An E46 M3 might actually do about the same as us on the track. It has a better suspension than an E92 even though it is a tad slower. Those old M3's have nice, stiff suspensions on them. I drove around a few at our track and they performed quite well.

[Mr. 5]

Originally Posted by jadeddjay

a couple things that i have learned from my time reading other posts

1) you probably need an oil cooler upgrade Disagree. The OEM OC works great for me.

2) upgrading sways will hurt your traction out of corners from weight transfer and lack of lsd Agree

3) i dont think the multiple piston calipers help your stopping power too much, but moreso increasing the feel and modulation ability under braking. Multiple POTs were very noticable in my case.

4) lots of people have been going from a staggered setup to a non-stag for practical reasons.. our cars are nearly perfectly balanced so .. yea Agree

5) there are lots of m3 suspension bits that will fit the 135. i am sure you have come across that thread This is one of the best and most noticeable mods to do!!

6) modified CDVs are widely available and make a pretty good difference while shifting quickly for MTs, yes. I love mine!

7) lots of little weight savers can be done including forged aftermarket rims, getting rid of the RFTs, exhaust, lightweight braille battery, taking out unnecessary upholstery, carbon fiber bits if youre that hardcore Agree!

8)lots of good ssk's out there, i have the uuc one with an e46zhp knob as well as tranny mounts and encorcers from uuc no comment

Originally Posted by O-cha

N54 (the engine) is not meant to be tracked. Select a different car if you're interested in tracking.

I kind of agree and disagree. The engine is awesome and is fun to track but I guess the question is, how hard to push it? If it's for 20 minute sessions then i believe it's a great track car, but if it's for serious tracking for hours then I agree.

[StreetSpeed]

Thanks for the info one and all. This is the kind of stuff I was looking for. However the oil cooler thing kinda bugs me, as this would become my second car, I would more than likely lease it, and basically just drive it on the weekends and track events. I don't mind paying a couple grand for removable suspension components and piggy backs, but if I have to have a pricey oil cooler installed AND removed then that doesn't sound so hot to me. Lots to think about I guess. And I have some time to think about it.

What if you leave the engine stock, do you still need an oil cooler? This will be my first time owning a RWD car, so I don't know that I'll be in a hurry to put down 350 whp my first season driving it. My dad has an 08 C6 with the Z51 package, and we switched cars for a session at Watkins Glen last season. That thing is a hand full to say the least. Up until last season he wasn't able to pass me (my car's fleetness surprises the hell out of just about everyone) , but this season he was able to drop the hammer down on me (at The Glen anyway. I still take him at Tremblant). I had a new found respect for his abilities when I actually drove his car.

[kenneth]

I think I met you. I was the Black 335 parked besides your father's red/burgundy Vette at Tremblant. You (and your bro?) were in your GTI. BTW is the GTI chipped?