I just thought of no lsd in a new way..

[crzy4135i]

OK, some of us believe the lsd should be offered as an option in this car. The "E-diff" system uses existing components such as the brakes and wheel speed sensors.. so adding software to control wheel spin is very cheap for BMW to incorporate. I'm very tired of people who buy sporty cars like this purely for status telling those of us who actually buy them for sporty driving that we don't need a mechanical lsd. That's BS. Many manufacturers offer lsd's on cars (and trucks) for $500-1000 option. For example, you can add an optional rear lsd to a new porsche turbo for only $950.

With that said, there are two reasons why it isn't *too* bad:

1) At least BMW gave us larger 4 piston rear brakes that can handle the role of working during braking AND acceleration. This is the only model with fixed calipers and 6/4 piston brakes.

2) At least BMW offers free brake pads during the maintenance period. The E-diff will wear the rear pads faster but at least BMW is willing to replace them for free.

Are these points valid or am I fooling myself?

[papagn78]

rears are actually 2 piston afaik

[PrematureApex]

Originally Posted by crzy4135i

1) At least BMW gave us larger 4 piston rear brakes that can handle the role of working during braking AND acceleration. This is the only model with fixed calipers and 6/4 piston brakes.

You have nothing to back that up. You're counting pistons and assuming everything is bigger.

Do you know if the pads on the rear of the 135 are larger than those on the back of the 335?

Number of pistons, or the fact that the calipers are fixed, have nothing to do with braking "strength" or heat capacity by themselves.

[crzy4135i]

Originally Posted by PrematureApex

You have nothing to back that up. You're counting pistons and assuming everything is bigger.

Do you know if the pads on the rear of the 135 are larger than those on the back of the 335?

Number of pistons, or the fact that the calipers are fixed, have nothing to do with braking "strength" or heat capacity by themselves.

You are correct. The unique brakes installed on the 135i are inferior to anything else on the market. I don't like to argue on the internet.

[Fast Kiwi]

Originally Posted by crzy4135i

OK, some of us believe the lsd should be offered as an option in this car. The "E-diff" system uses existing components such as the brakes and wheel speed sensors.. so adding software to control wheel spin is very cheap for BMW to incorporate. I'm very tired of people who buy sporty cars like this purely for status telling those of us who actually buy them for sporty driving that we don't need a mechanical lsd. That's BS. Many manufacturers offer lsd's on cars (and trucks) for $500-1000 option. For example, you can add an optional rear lsd to a new porsche turbo for only $950.

With that said, there are two reasons why it isn't *too* bad:

1) At least BMW gave us larger 4 piston rear brakes that can handle the role of working during braking AND acceleration. This is the only model with fixed calipers and 6/4 piston brakes.

2) At least BMW offers free brake pads during the maintenance period. The E-diff will wear the rear pads faster but at least BMW is willing to replace them for free.

Are these points valid or am I fooling myself?

So... you are with BMW for no LSD (from factory) or... Are you just fed up with people complaining about it???

You're point about the Porsche Turbo is takin but give credit where credit is due.. That a $120,000+++++ car.. there better be an option list the length of my arm.. lol...

Atleast we can get the LSD if we really want it right? (Albiet.. $$$)

[WhereItsAt]

Many sports cars less than $120,000 have the option of a LSD. In fact even GT's. My 2005 G35 has an optional LSD (a viscous one, but still a LSD). It's not uncommon at all. Electronics are nice and I have zero experience with the BMW nannies, but a mechanical LSD is very nice to have, not just on a track. I know that in the snow, a LSD makes driving much better.

[M3Newbie88]

Originally Posted by WhereItsAt

Many sports cars less than $120,000 have the option of a LSD. In fact even GT's. My 2005 G35 has an optional LSD (a viscous one, but still a LSD). It's not uncommon at all. Electronics are nice and I have zero experience with the BMW nannies, but a mechanical LSD is very nice to have, not just on a track. I know that in the snow, a LSD makes driving much better.

Does the civic si come with an LSD lol....

[WhereItsAt]

Yes. It does. Your point?

[Fast Kiwi]

Originally Posted by WhereItsAt

Many sports cars less than $120,000 have the option of a LSD. In fact even GT's. My 2005 G35 has an optional LSD (a viscous one, but still a LSD). It's not uncommon at all. Electronics are nice and I have zero experience with the BMW nannies, but a mechanical LSD is very nice to have, not just on a track. I know that in the snow, a LSD makes driving much better.

Of course.. I was just making a reference from the op's satement about the 911.. I have a 350Z with the VLSD, which i think kinda blows but you're right, it's far better then not having one at all.. and yeah even on the street.. all this snow about.. having it is a good thing.. lol

[BMWPower06]

LSD should be a part of the Sport package in the 135 and 335

[sethchan]

Originally Posted by BMWPower06

LSD should be a part of the Sport package in the 135 and 335

Doesn't feel like a complete sport package without something this essential.

[WAY]

Instead of complaining about it, should we organise a Quaife ATB LSD group buy? I am in.

[m3bs]

Originally Posted by WAY

Instead of complaining about it, should we organise a Quaife ATB LSD group buy? I am in.

Also an opportunity to change ratios.

If one were to install a Quaife or other LSD, can the E-diff be disabled without screwing up ABS or DSC?

[WAY]

No need to disable E-diff. Advevo our friendly European BMW racer has done this and there is no problem. And yes, I am very keen to change the final ratio as well as I don't need a top speed any faster than 250kmh!

[JOe335i]

only M models have LSD, this will continue for a while i think. the 335i was BMW's chance to add a LSD it didnt happen.

[larryn]

Might want to drive the cars first, before planning on plopping down a few thousand in mods, to see if you need an aftermarket diff first...

[Yearofthe1]

Originally Posted by WAY

Instead of complaining about it, should we organise a Quaife ATB LSD group buy? I am in.

I'm going for

Performance Gearing

I've heard/read a lot of good things about the great customer service, and I think working with a US based company would be easier (logistically) than one based out of the UK. And I've written Jim Blanton about the concern about the electronic nannies, and he assured my the LSD would kick in long before the nannies would detect that any wheel spin was occuring.

[WAY]

Originally Posted by larryn

Might want to drive the cars first, before planning on plopping down a few thousand in mods, to see if you need an aftermarket diff first...

That's a good point, but technically the e-diff is flawed. It relies on braking one wheel while not transferring the torque to the other wheel. That mean you are wasting some of the torque which just turns to heat. Also, on the track, this would mean wearing out your brakes sooner. Both of which doesn't sound appealing to me.

[WAY]

Originally Posted by Yearofthe1

I'm going for

Performance Gearing

I've heard/read a lot of good things about the great customer service, and I think working with a US based company would be easier (logistically) than one based out of the UK. And I've written Jim Blanton about the concern about the electronic nannies, and he assured my the LSD would kick in long before the nannies would detect that any wheel spin was occuring.

How reputable are these guys? I am happy to go with them if they are good. Quaife is of course the best known LSD company in the world, so you know you are getting quality product.

[Yearofthe1]

Originally Posted by WAY

How reputable are these guys? I am happy to go with them if they are good. Quaife is of course the best known LSD company in the world, so you know you are getting quality product.

The thing I love best about Performance Gearing is that Jim Blanton (the president of PG) is more than happy to answer any questions you may have regarding the differences between his diffs and Quaife's (he's of course biased to his product :wink. I've been more than convinced that the Salisbury style diff that PG sells is a better style diff for my needs. There are a few testimonials on the PG website (www.performancegearing.com) that could help you decide as well. Also, PG essentially customizes your order to your needs, although I'm sure Quaife has this option as well.

[larryn]

Originally Posted by WAY

That's a good point, but technically the e-diff is flawed. It relies on braking one wheel while not transferring the torque to the other wheel. That mean you are wasting some of the torque which just turns to heat. Also, on the track, this would mean wearing out your brakes sooner. Both of which doesn't sound appealing to me.

Brakes will wear out if you are frequently driving in a manner where your inside wheel would be spinning, without this eLSD. I hope that's not all the time.

Regarding your comment about the torque... Here's a quote from the BMW internal technical doc that Rook posted:

When the vehicle is in tight bend the DSC applies the brakes the spinning (inside) driving wheel, the torque is then transmitted to the outside wheel which is carrying most of the load, optimizing power and maintaining vehicle speed trough the corner.

Also, that Fifth Gear video clearly showed the 135i both drifting, and able to do two spinning wheeled doughnuts on dry pavement. An open diffed car cannot dream of doing that normally. I think that particular program is a nice cheap alternative to a more expensive LSD for 99% of those buying the 135i

[Yearofthe1]

Originally Posted by larryn

Brakes will wear out if you are frequently driving in a manner where your inside wheel would be spinning, without this eLSD. I hope that's not all the time.

Regarding your comment about the torque... Here's a quote from the BMW internal technical doc that Rook posted:

Also, that Fifth Gear video clearly showed the 135i both drifting, and able to do two spinning wheeled doughnuts on dry pavement. An open diffed car cannot dream of doing that normally. I think that particular program is a nice cheap alternative to a more expensive LSD for 99% of those buying the 135i

I agree. Especially after seeing the 5th Gear vid, the mechanics behind the eDiff system do make a lot of sense. Sure, not 100% of the power wasted on the spinning wheel is transfered when the brakes are applied, but it easy to visualize/conceive of how this power is transfered once the inside spinning wheel is arrested. I am primarily interested in an aftermarket diff for the change in gearing ratio, plus it is a better system at transfering power where it's needed.