[rjabend]

I just learned the hard way that keeping my phone charged to 100% degrades Lithium-Ion battery life, so I looked the phenomenon up for cars:

"Yes, keeping lithium-ion batteries fully charged in a car can be detrimental.
Battery damage: Fully charging or discharging lithium-ion batteries can damage them.
Battery degradation: Consistently charging to 100% can cause battery pack degradation.
Dendrite growth: Charging to 100% can cause lithium metal tendrils, called dendrites, to grow, which can lead to short circuits.
Battery stress: Keeping a battery at a high charge voltage and exposing it to high temperatures can stress the battery.
Battery performance: Charging too often can decrease battery performance and durability.
Lithium-ion batteries perform best when they are in the 30–80% charge range. To prolong battery life, you can:
Avoid charging every day unless necessary
Follow the manufacturer's guidelines for conditional charging
Use smart charging solutions
Monitor the state of charge
Turn off the battery when it's close to full charge
Unplug all equipment when the battery is charging
Store the battery in a cool, dry place away from sunlight and temperature extremes"

The above further degrades my perception of electric vehicle utility. I am probably behind the times, but was wondering if anyone has experienced the degradation on a vehicle. I am also wondering if & how car manufacturers protect mild hybrids.

[Orient330iNYC]

the MH battery is not charged to 100% and has liquid cooling as well. i believe it goes to 80% and stops discharging at 10-20%
i dont think any car phev or ev charge to 100% and discharges to 0%
the range stated is based on the usable capacity of the battery (ie not charged to 100% and discharged to 0%)

after 200K miles, tesla is reporting a 15% degradation of capacity, so the battery will go from ~350 miles per charge to ~300 miles per charge due to degradation, thats after the equivalent of 13 years of averaging 15K miles per year

[rjabend]

Originally Posted by Orient330iNYC

the MH battery is not charged to 100% and has liquid cooling as well. i believe it goes to 80% and stops discharging at 10-20%
i dont think any car phev or ev charge to 100% and discharges to 0%
the range stated is based on the usable capacity of the battery (ie not charged to 100% and discharged to 0%)

after 200K miles, tesla is reporting a 15% degradation of capacity, so the battery will go from ~350 miles per charge to ~300 miles per charge due to degradation, thats after the equivalent of 13 years of averaging 15K miles per year

Thanks. I have no experience with with electric vehicles. Does climate affect life? I also noticed that battery voltages can be in the 800 volt range. That is a little bit scary!!

[Brendon]

Many modern EV's will let you set a max charging threshold, so that you can try to keep the battery within the optimum range. For daily use, I typically don't take mine over 90%, nor is there a need.

EV's also include top end and bottom end buffers, so that you're not fully charging, or discharging the battery.

[rjabend]

Originally Posted by Brendon

Many modern EV's will let you set a max charging threshold, so that you can try to keep the battery within the optimum range. For daily use, I typically don't take mine over 90%, nor is there a need.

EV's also include top end and bottom end buffers, so that you're not fully charging, or discharging the battery.

Thanks. I noticed that my new cell phone can be set to a max charge of 80%. Nothing on the lower end though. I'll see how that works out.

[Young04]

Originally Posted by rjabend

Thanks. I have no experience with with electric vehicles. Does climate affect life? I also noticed that battery voltages can be in the 800 volt range. That is a little bit scary!!

Climate affects range (particularly cold), as does rain (rolling resistance), etc. The impact of any inefficiencies is amplified vis-a-vis an ICE car because EVs are much more efficient - i.e. some 60 percent of energy created makes it to the wheels in an EV whereas in an ICE car, that figure is something closer to 25 percent. Thus, any time you introduce something that impacts range of a car, it will be much more noticeable in an EV.

Today's battery is not the end all, be all. Probably not the next gen solid state either (though the solid state batteries will address a lot of today's EV's shortcomings). Perhaps the one after that and perhaps in combination with other alternative energy sources.

[Orient330iNYC]

Originally Posted by rjabend

Thanks. I have no experience with with electric vehicles. Does climate affect life? I also noticed that battery voltages can be in the 800 volt range. That is a little bit scary!!

climate does affect range, in cold weather, the battery needs to be kept warm- an ev will heat the battery (thus consuming charge) to keep it at operating temperatures. in hotter climates climate drains more battery if cooling of the cabin is needed.

but in terms of battery life (span) climate doesnt affect the batteries as much as you would expect since the environment of the cells are actively managed by the car.

driving range in freezing weather.... thats a different story. (see above for energy needed to keep the cells at operating temp)
also in cold weather, low amperage charging ( home L1 charging for example) can often not keep up with the power needs to keep the cells warm enough to charge. but i believe thats only for 120V charging.

[rjabend]

Originally Posted by Orient330iNYC

climate does affect range, in cold weather, the battery needs to be kept warm- an ev will heat the battery (thus consuming charge) to keep it at operating temperatures. in hotter climates climate drains more battery if cooling of the cabin is needed.

but in terms of battery life (span) climate doesnt affect the batteries as much as you would expect since the environment of the cells are actively managed by the car.

driving range in freezing weather.... thats a different story. (see above for energy needed to keep the cells at operating temp)
also in cold weather, low amperage charging ( home L1 charging for example) can often not keep up with the power needs to keep the cells warm enough to charge. but i believe thats only for 120V charging.

Thanks again! 120V is less efficient due to higher current and resultant IR drop than 220 - 240 volts.