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      11-13-2008, 03:11 PM   #1
gyrfalcon
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Question DS SCCA modification help

As I've been enjoying my recent foray into the AutoX world, I'd like to know what I can do to my car and still stay classed in DS for SCCA Solo events. I think I understand most of what is permitted below but I'm hazy on some items. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Permitted:
New front sway (anti-roll) bar.
New wheels in stock 7.5 and 8.5x18 sizes.
Any tires I can cram on said wheels.
Cat back exhaust.
Any minor cosmetics or non performance mods such as air filter elements or spoilers.

My big question is what is permitted suspension-wise. Can I do something like a KW V2 coil-over kit and stay DS? I thought I remember seeing someone say they were not DS due to suspension upgrades but from the rules I though you could change shocks.

Also, would an SSK or CDV delete be permitted in DS? And last, if I made any of these changes would I go to DSP, STU(2009), or somewhere else?:iono:

I'm not really looking to be super competitive, I just want to make sure any mods I do don't push me into a class where I don't even have a chance at local events.
Thanks for the clarification help.
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      11-14-2008, 07:40 PM   #2
cpt97m3
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A spoiler would most likely not be legal since some could argue about a performance increase, however small. You can replace the shocks, but not the springs, so no K2's and no adjustable perches. Vorshlag can get you some stock legal AST's that should work I think. The rest of your list is OK.
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      11-14-2008, 08:19 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpt97m3 View Post
A spoiler would most likely not be legal since some could argue about a performance increase, however small. You can replace the shocks, but not the springs, so no K2's and no adjustable perches. Vorshlag can get you some stock legal AST's that should work I think. The rest of your list is OK.
Thanks for the clarification on the suspension. By rest of the list, do you mean SSK and CDV delete are fine as well? Thanks again.
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      11-15-2008, 12:30 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gyrfalcon View Post
Thanks for the clarification on the suspension. By rest of the list, do you mean SSK and CDV delete are fine as well? Thanks again.
Sorry, no SSK or CDV delete, although probably no one would notice the CDV delete or care really, but technically not legal. So go for the front sway bar, as much camber as you can get with using up the tolerances, cat back exhaust, and the best shocks and tires you can afford.
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      11-15-2008, 11:49 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpt97m3 View Post
Sorry, no SSK or CDV delete, although probably no one would notice the CDV delete or care really, but technically not legal. So go for the front sway bar, as much camber as you can get with using up the tolerances, cat back exhaust, and the best shocks and tires you can afford.
Got it. Thanks. Anyone have a review on swapping in some Koni yellows(or maybe the FSDs) without replacing the springs?
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      11-24-2008, 08:37 PM   #6
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Try Koni double adjustables from either Bimmerhaus in Colorado
http://bimmerhaus.net/w5.html
or Strano's Perfomance Parts (ask for Sammy). www.stranoparts.com

I do have a pair of Hoosier Racing Tire A6s for sale, that are perfect for the rear of the car:
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18465
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      11-25-2008, 05:31 PM   #7
gyrfalcon
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Thanks for the links Matt. Gonna run street tires for now, but thanks for the heads up.
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      11-26-2008, 01:49 PM   #8
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Someone mentioned our company name already, and someone else sent me this thread link, so I will respond. Since we're not a sponsor here I won't include any details such as pricing or any of that - this same style monotube adjustable shock tailored for SCCA Stock class can be made by us at AST, or Penske, or Moton, or the like - so this information applies to several brand options for Stock.

The SCCA Stock rules allow for substantial changes in damping but no changes to the factory springs, alignment range, or ride height. Those shock rules allow for only 2 damping adjustments (rebound and compression), but you can run high pressure nitrogen charged monotubes with remote reservoirs - which is the best you can get - and you can drill a holes in the body or fender liner to route the hose or reservoir for remote mounting. You can also vary the Nitrogen pressure in most monotubes that have remote reservoirs and a Schrader valve, such as a Penske 8200 or the AST 4200RR. The higher Nitrogen charge effectively increases spring rate - legally.

We've made single adjustable 4100s, internal 4200s and remote reservoir 4200 doubles (4200RR) for Stock class autocrossers before. We take a typical AST monotube coilover strut and add a threaded lower OEM spring perch so that the stock springs can be used. We also custom make the struts to the stock length, not the normal shortened strut body/shafts. Once the lower perch is set to the stock height and locked in place, its legal.


AST 4200RR shocks built for 2008 STI running in AStock. This is the extreme of what is allowed in SCCA Stock class.

The OEM style AST 4200RR is not the cheapest solution, but if you want the maximum benefit, this style monotube is what works the best. The internal 4200s are a more cost effective solution.


Left: E90/E82 front lower spring perch with threaded collar. R: Lower perches for 2007 Subaru STI


The threaded collar lower perches like these above are made and used by several shock makers that normally only sell coilovers to make their products work with OEM springs. Its usually an added cost upgrade to go this route, but a good way to get the best shocks to work with stock style springs. On most race cars, the stock style springs are chucked into the trash, but in SCCA Stock that's not allowed. You can expect to pay $4000-7000 for the most extreme remote reservoir monotube doubles for Stock class, but you can pay a lot less if you avoid the reservoirs and even more if you avoid the second adjustment.

edit:

Quote:
Originally Posted by gyrfalcon View Post
Thanks for the links Matt. Gonna run street tires for now, but thanks for the heads up.
If you are not running R compounds in Stock, then none of the shock upgrades you could do would amount to much. Sticky R compound race tires are by far the biggest upgrade available in Stock class, likely 95% of all gains you can legally manage in this class. Until you are running R compounds in Stock I wouldn't spend one dime on better shocks. And if you are new to the sport, running R's should be a low priority, as they can be an expensive crutch that limits your growth potential. New autocrossers shouldn't be on Rs for at least 1-2 years of regular competition, so you can learn car control limits on lower grip and more communicative street compounds.

Cheers,
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      11-30-2008, 11:05 PM   #9
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Terry,
Thank you for the extremely informative post. :thumbup:
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      12-01-2008, 07:07 AM   #10
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oohhhh, ahhhh, those are beautiful struts Terry....

biggest thing killing the 135 in DS is camber ..... I am going to throw on a set of Vorshlag camber plates and jump to STU next year (thanks to the SEB lifting the single turbo restriction).
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      12-01-2008, 11:29 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedTRex View Post
oohhhh, ahhhh, those are beautiful struts Terry....
Oh, you think that's beautiful? Check out these shocks we have on hand for the upcoming PRI show next week:



Quote:
Originally Posted by RedTRex View Post
biggest thing killing the 135 in DS is camber ..... I am going to throw on a set of Vorshlag camber plates and jump to STU next year (thanks to the SEB lifting the single turbo restriction).
Agreed, camber is the killer. The 135i should feel right at home in STU, and this class does allow you to fix everything that BMW didn't get perfect. Such as: wider wheels (18x9 F/ 18x10 R fits, possibly more with fender rolling) and tires, a proper exhaust/downpipe and "tune", lots of front camber, stiffer spring rates and better dampers... We've already talked to a number of 135i racers ready to make the STU jump, as well as quite a few DStockers looking for better shocks.
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      12-02-2008, 07:32 AM   #12
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Don't forget a mechanical LSD can be installed too!

But for us racers on a budget ..... can't get all the cool stuff.

I have a spare set of stocker wheels (DS wheels), so I will use the rears on the front with some of spacers and your plates.....won't win Nats, but I will be most competitive locally (already pax in top10 most of the time) --- and upgrade as I can...





* and yes those struts are even more nice.......:biggrin:
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      12-03-2008, 01:18 PM   #13
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Rear wheels on the front for DS would not be legal. In stock, if you are staggered, you must stay staggered:
Quote:
13.4 WHEELS
Any type wheel may be used provided it complies with the following:
it is the same width and diameter as standard, and as installed (including wheel spacers if applicable) it does not have an offset more than +/- 0.25 inch from a standard wheel for the car. The resultant change in track dimensions is allowed.
You can put any size rubber you can cram on to that 7.5" rim, but you must use a 7.5" rim in the front, and an 8.5" rim in the back, 18", and within +/- 0.25" (~6MM) offset.

I suppose some might try to argue with a straight face that it is "standard" to have rear wheels installed on the front, and I'm still searching for an example of someone having tried that (on sccaforums.com), but I really think you'd have a hard time beating a protest if it occurred, and you'd certainly be violating sporting like conduct to try to bend the rules like that.

I think the Strelnieks (very competive husband and wife drivers, search for postings by 3RotorRX7) are using 275 all around, but on the stock sized (staggered) Breyton GTS-R wheels you can get from TireRack. I'm currently using 245F and 285R Kumho take offs, but if I ever decide to spend the cash for a nice set of tires, I'd probably get the new Hoosier P255/35ZR18 all around.
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      12-03-2008, 02:17 PM   #14
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I believe you misunderstood ......... let me clarify.

I had the wheels as my spare set for running DS, I intend to use the rears from that set on the front to run STU ..... granted this thread is about DS but Terry and I were having a sidebar on STU mods.
I have run DS for years, you are most correct on your wheel comments.......:smile:
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      12-03-2008, 02:47 PM   #15
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Yeah, I read about you crossing over to the STU side on another thread. Just wanted to make sure any noobs reading didn't get a funny idea; nothing wrong with swapping rubber from one end to the other, just not rims.

Have fun in STU! Let us know when you get the LSD, chip, intakes, headers, fat fat tires (on lighter SSRs), etc. etc. etc...

I saw a posting from 3RotorRX7 about a sold "SSTT". Did they get rid of the 135i? It is a great car, but not a great car in SCCA stock. They already have a trailer machine, I wonder what is next for a street car for Eric... Anyone see a good bye to BMW posting from them?
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      12-07-2008, 07:10 PM   #16
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Series 1 Camber Adjustment - Crash Bolts

Has anyone running a Series 1 in Solo II DS been able to find out if the BMW service manual or service bulletin allows the use of crash bolts to adjust camber.

I have seen these part numbers for the 3 series and wondered if they are the same as the Series 1

BMW P/N 07-11-9-900-587 nut P/N 07-12-9-964-661

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      01-03-2009, 07:35 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fair View Post
If you are not running R compounds in Stock, then none of the shock upgrades you could do would amount to much...... And if you are new to the sport, running R's should be a low priority, as they can be an expensive crutch that limits your growth potential. New autocrossers shouldn't be on Rs for at least 1-2 years of regular competition, so you can learn car control limits on lower grip and more communicative street compounds.

Cheers,
Since Terry sells suspension stuff, and he recommends not spending money on his products speaks volumes about them as a vendor. Then he gets it right with the mods that conform to the SCCA Stock rules.

But let me echo the quoted comments, the best bang for the buck is a driving school. The 135i is a great car in stock form, so you can drive it at a school with a high level of confidence. In time, when you decide to add "R" tires and/or suspension, you will get ton more out of the car.
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