BMW 1 Series Coupe Forum / 1 Series Convertible Forum (1M / tii / 135i / 128i / Coupe / Cabrio / Hatchback) (BMW E82 E88 128i 130i 135i)
 





 

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      12-09-2008, 07:24 PM   #1
BerkTechnology
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Update on our track pads and the brake pistons - good news!

Sorry I didn't post these until now. We checked our pads early in Nov before the EuroTuner event and the pistons look just fine. The dust boots have melted a tiny bit, but that is completely normal. We had a total of ~5 track days on the pads using Motul fluid.



We had a chance to speak with Brembo in Nov and we both agree that it is NOT the calipers or ceramic cups at fault here. It is the donor pads which are causing the ceramic cups to crack.

As you can see there are the gas reliefs built into the backing plate of the pad. The pistons are supposed to line up correctly with these pads. You can see where the piston is half over the backing plate and half over the relief cutout.





The solution would be to either get a set of custom backing plates cut, or wait for the manufacturer of these pads to get an actual 135i backing pad made. The pads that we have (and I'm sure the same pads that Ralph's car has) are originally from a Porsche, and are then cut down to fit our 135i calipers.

So we'll see more as people start to track their cars and check their pistons, but I think that this isn't a piston problem.
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      12-09-2008, 09:44 PM   #2
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I have tracked my car about 5 days as well with a variety of pads (stock, cool willy and most recently 2 days with Hawk HT-10). Only the last two times (with the HT-10's) did I inserted the stock metal backing plate between the pads and the pistons. All my seals are melted and I have a small chip on one ceramic insert.

However, your argument makes sense to me. That was one of my concerns when I observed that the indentions on the back of the pads did not line up with the pistons. I was worried that the overlap would cause uneven pressure on the ceramic inserts and that might be the cause of the trouble others were having. At the time I started using the Hawk pads with the back plate, my ceramic inserts did not appear to be damaged, but there could very well have already been cracks caused by the use of the cool willy pads without the stock backing plate.

Question - do you think if I had used the stock backing plate wth all the aftermarket pads I could have avoided damage to the inserts?
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      12-09-2008, 10:04 PM   #3
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Interesting result Byran. Thanks for sharing. I really would encourage everyone else to ask their dealer to check this when they are servicing their cars just in case. Then we will all know for sure...
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      12-09-2008, 10:20 PM   #4
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The Brembo rep says that the ceramic insulators used on our car are the same exact cup used on the Porsche GT......
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      12-09-2008, 11:15 PM   #5
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Are replacement ceramic cups and dust boots available? Any idea on cost?
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      12-09-2008, 11:55 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkcormier View Post
Are replacement ceramic cups and dust boots available? Any idea on cost?
Not that I'm aware of. I think Ralph tried to purchase just the pistons from BMW, but no luck.
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      12-10-2008, 12:10 AM   #7
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Yeah not through BMW. Maybe through Brembo?
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      12-10-2008, 12:12 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkcormier View Post
Question - do you think if I had used the stock backing plate wth all the aftermarket pads I could have avoided damage to the inserts?
I'd be interested on an opinion on this as well - we have always used the stock backing plates with the racing pads.
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      12-10-2008, 12:19 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottn2retro View Post
I'd be interested on an opinion on this as well - we have always used the stock backing plates with the racing pads.
So far only the two of us have had this issue. One off bad batch? What are you doing as replacement btw? Are you sourcing the pistons? I wouldn't mind piggy backing off you if you are as I want to donate my brake set to a 2002 with 17 inch wheels. :w00t: I have already upgraded them to bigger AP Racing set on my 135i.
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      12-10-2008, 01:54 AM   #10
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good news, nice to hear it
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      12-10-2008, 02:28 AM   #11
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well glad to know that the standard brakes are good and the problem lays with the modification introduced, and since these are the same inserts used on a Porsche GT then I guess BMW did NOT cut any corners on these brakes
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      12-10-2008, 09:15 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottn2retro View Post
I'd be interested on an opinion on this as well - we have always used the stock backing plates with the racing pads.
Hi Scott,

Do you know if we have the same donor pads? Our pads come directly from Porterfield. Our donor pad comes from a Porsche, but don't remember the model.

Bryan
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      12-10-2008, 09:47 PM   #13
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So please clarify…all the people who had the ceramic pistons deteriorate (I counted three members) had aftermarket pads NOT designed for the 135i?

If so, then that would make perfect sense, since 135i specific pads will be engineered with backing plates or be able to utilize the stock backing plates.
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      12-10-2008, 10:29 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BerkTechnology View Post
Hi Scott,

Do you know if we have the same donor pads? Our pads come directly from Porterfield. Our donor pad comes from a Porsche, but don't remember the model.

Bryan
We got our pads from Turner and they did not tell us the model they start with.

The good news is that Hawk is expecting to have hi perf. street and race pads designed for the 135i in the near future.

I like the idea of the mismatch pads on the backside, but we have always used the backing plates, so I don't know if that would present the same problem.
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      12-10-2008, 10:33 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottn2retro View Post
We got our pads from Turner and they did not tell us the model they start with.

The good news is that Hawk is expecting to have hi perf. street and race pads designed for the 135i in the near future.

So the Hawk HT-10 people have been running were not made specific to the 135i?
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      12-11-2008, 12:35 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottn2retro View Post
We got our pads from Turner and they did not tell us the model they start with.

The good news is that Hawk is expecting to have hi perf. street and race pads designed for the 135i in the near future.

I like the idea of the mismatch pads on the backside, but we have always used the backing plates, so I don't know if that would present the same problem.
That's good news that Hawk is coming out with some more pad offerings! Let us know if you hear anything else.

If your pads came from Turner, they came from Porterfield as well. Porterfield is the one who is actually manufacturing these.

Quote:
So the Hawk HT-10 people have been running were not made specific to the 135i?
Ours were, but it looks like we can't say 100% for sure about the others.
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      12-11-2008, 05:04 AM   #17
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Mine came from Turner too, so we all have the same pads!
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      12-18-2008, 11:21 PM   #18
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Come to think of it, the OEM pads do not have a removable backing plate. They're glued onto the OEM pads.

Custom backing plates here we come!

My choices in material would be 6AL-4V Titanium or 301 SS. Anyone here know a materials scientist? Am I on the right track here? The 301SS seems the better choice, but just doesn't sound as sexy as titanium.
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      12-22-2008, 01:46 AM   #19
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6AL-4V Titanium has my vote!
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      04-23-2009, 11:28 AM   #20
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any update on a backing plate?
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      04-27-2009, 08:54 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fourtailpipes View Post
any update on a backing plate?
Turner already has them available.
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      04-28-2009, 09:14 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BerkTechnology View Post
Turner already has them available.
Called Turner and they said they did not make metal backing plates for the E82 brake pads?

Is there someone specific to talk to that might have the more info?
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