How is HPFP Failure caused? Symptoms?

dubiousONE · 08-01-2009, 07:59 PM

Please excuse my ignorance to this topic but, what are the symptoms of a HPFP failure?

What is the biggest cause of this?
How or Why does it happen?
How do I know when it happens?

Most of you who have experienced HPFP failure, are you pushing your cars all the time or can this also happen to very conservative drivers as well?

Thanks in advance for your responses.

curamie · 08-01-2009, 08:05 PM

okay here is my story

the limp mode was only occured when i turn dtc off all the way and drive the car hard...

but yesterday dtc was half off and got into limp mode... before this, i had a trouble putting gas in my car, it wont go in automatically, so i had to do it with my hands..

and then got into limp mode(chevron)

I have maintenance in 2k miles so will ask to dealer to change the fuel pump....

hsleiman · 08-02-2009, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by curamie

okay here is my story

the limp mode was only occured when i turn dtc off all the way and drive the car hard...

but yesterday dtc was half off and got into limp mode... before this, i had a trouble putting gas in my car, it wont go in automatically, so i had to do it with my hands..

and then got into limp mode(chevron)

I have maintenance in 2k miles so will ask to dealer to change the fuel pump....

Sounds like you were trying to put 87 in your car? I mistakenly grabbed 87 instead of 93 to fill up my X5 once and spent 2 minutes trying to figure out why the pump kept cutting off

Your fuel pump issue and limp may be related to that.

JoeyBananaz18 · 08-02-2009, 02:53 AM

when it was time for a first fill up, i was to my local sunoco and reached for the 91 button. then i got hit with this theory: if i use a higher octane gas, it would put less strain on the pump because less fuel would be needed to get pumped in to get the right octane. i pressed the 93 button, pressed it again tonight and will from now on in hopes i can crack this mystery. i tried starting a thread like this. got nowhere. i want to know the cause. there is no reason for this.

samchoi604 · 08-02-2009, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeyBananaz18

when it was time for a first fill up, i was to my local sunoco and reached for the 91 button. then i got hit with this theory: if i use a higher octane gas, it would put less strain on the pump because less fuel would be needed to get pumped in to get the right octane. i pressed the 93 button, pressed it again tonight and will from now on in hopes i can crack this mystery. i tried starting a thread like this. got nowhere. i want to know the cause. there is no reason for this.

some people use only the highest octane of gas and still have this problem.

The most definite theory IMO is the high concentration of ethanol in US gas. There are far less fuel pump failures around the world compared to the US, simply because they don't have the high concentration of ethanol.

BzzzBom · 08-02-2009, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samchoi604

some people use only the highest octane of gas and still have this problem.

The most definite theory IMO is the high concentration of ethanol in US gas. There are far less fuel pump failures around the world compared to the US, simply because they don't have the high concentration of ethanol.

I am sure BMW is aware of the ethanol content of US gas and they have had three years to figure it out. They should either fix the issue or buy back every car with a N54 engine in the U.S.

Joeb427 · 08-02-2009, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BzzzBom

I am sure BMW is aware of the ethanol content of US gas and they have had three years to figure it out. They should either fix the issue or buy back every car with a N54 engine in the U.S.

Now that the flagship twin turbo 750 has the FP problem too,maybe BMW will do something about the problem now.

JoeyBananaz18 · 08-02-2009, 11:03 AM

iv heard that about the ethanol. they pump more ethanol into the gas so that the stations can stretch out their reserves. the new 7? wow. this is terrible. next up will be the X5/6Ms.

rrosen · 08-04-2009, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeyBananaz18

when it was time for a first fill up, i was to my local sunoco and reached for the 91 button. then i got hit with this theory: if i use a higher octane gas, it would put less strain on the pump because less fuel would be needed to get pumped in to get the right octane. i pressed the 93 button, pressed it again tonight and will from now on in hopes i can crack this mystery. i tried starting a thread like this. got nowhere. i want to know the cause. there is no reason for this.

What makes you think higher octane means less work for the fuel pump. If you put low enough in, the timing retards and you get less gas mileage so the pump might pump a little more over time but you're talking a miniscule difference.

The amount of gas has nothing to do with octane.

If anyone knew the root cause, they could probably sell it to BMW.

reprod · 08-04-2009, 09:11 PM

I'm sticking it to the ethanol. Even though we have a small amount of Euro 335 drivers I do not recall seeing even one thread about any one of them complaining about fuel pump issues at all.

I've used 93 consistently and occasionally give the car a good push on the pedal when I get the chance. After a solid 17300 miles I get a HPFP failure while hanging with an S550 on Park Avenue in NYC. Embarrasing!!! One thing I did notice was that the car only limped on me when oil temp was at 245+ degrees. Has happened to me 2 times already.

This car has only seen Shell V-Power 93 gasoline (EVER!!!) The only time it saw different was when I picked it up in Munich and I still gave it Shell.... I'm convinced this ethanol is messing with our fuel pumps and BMW is emptying their reserve of fuel pumps until they can sign the contract on the upgraded models from their suppliers.

am_ver · 08-05-2009, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samchoi604

The most definite theory IMO is the high concentration of ethanol in US gas. There are far less fuel pump failures around the world compared to the US, simply because they don't have the high concentration of ethanol.

During the BMW factory tour in Munich they said that 50% of all BMW's are shipped over to the USA - they should have considered US ethanol policy while designing the HPFP's.

D.B.S · 08-05-2009, 07:10 AM

SO the question I have is; is there any way to legally (or illegally) remove the ethanol from the gas we pump? Maybe there is an additive that would reduce the amount of ethanol in the gas? Maybe I'm way off on a limb here, but there's got to be something... IF ethanol is the issue, then what would counteract and eliminate the ethanol in the gas? Octane boosters? Gas Treatment, something else?

Lynchmob6 · 08-05-2009, 07:22 AM

I am over in Germany and I know several folks that have 335's like me. I do know of one fuel pump failure. It is a 2008, and it happened to the guy at about 10K miles. Haven't heard of any others though.

bmwbadboy · 08-05-2009, 07:45 AM

What is the part or mechanism that fails in the fuel pump? Is it the motor itself that failed. (it's electric) circuits, transistors? Is it a mechanical part in the pump. I'm not an engineer but if we knew exactly what piece failed on the pump then you might be closer to a determination of why it failed.

The fact that some ethanol flows through the pump and is in contact with some part of the pump could be the failure point. (deterioration)The concentration is advertised at 90/10. Hardly seems that such a small concentration would be the problem. We would need to know how many HPFP failures occurred by region to make a statement that the problem is mostly US bound 335's. Probably something we will never find out. Dirty corporate secrets. If it is a US problem then what other differences are engineered with the US models? If any?

D.B.S · 08-05-2009, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmwbadboy

The fact that some ethanol flows through the pump and is in contact with some part of the pump could be the failure point. (deterioration)The concentration is advertised at 90/10. Hardly seems that such a small concentration would be the problem. We would need to know how many HPFP failures occurred by region to make a statement that the problem is mostly US bound 335's. Probably something we will never find out. Dirty corporate secrets. If it is a US problem then what other differences are engineered with the US models? If any?

Maybe it's just me, but it seems majority of the failures are on the two coasts (east and west) with a few dotted around the mid US. The only thing that comes to mind as far as what differences are engineered with the US models is the Emissions system (with a very small difference between US and EURO models), but what really separates us from the EURO bound models and the US bound models is that we run Ethanol in our fuel... whether it be 5, 10 or 15%... It may seem like a miniscule amount, but its enough to cause problems. I dont think in EURO they have any Ethanol in their fuel, or this would be a more widespread (world spread) problem. Since it's just limited to North America, it's a non-issue so to speak... I don't think we will ever be able to find out which part specifically is failing in these pumps, but whatever part it is, doesn't like Ethanol...

Joeb427 · 08-05-2009, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Army335xi

Maybe it's just me, but it seems majority of the failures are on the two coasts (east and west) with a few dotted around the mid US. The only thing that comes to mind as far as what differences are engineered with the US models is the Emissions system (with a very small difference between US and EURO models), but what really separates us from the EURO bound models and the US bound models is that we run Ethanol in our fuel... whether it be 5, 10 or 15%... It may seem like a miniscule amount, but its enough to cause problems. I dont think in EURO they have any Ethanol in their fuel, or this would be a more widespread (world spread) problem. Since it's just limited to North America, it's a non-issue so to speak... I don't think we will ever be able to find out which part specifically is failing in these pumps, but whatever part it is, doesn't like Ethanol...

If the problem is because of ethanol,why are pumps failing at 2K miles,15K miles,35K miles and for some never?
There's no pattern.

D.B.S · 08-05-2009, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joeb427

If the problem is because of ethanol,why are pumps failing at 2K miles,15K miles,35K miles and for some never?
There's no pattern.

Your right, there is no pattern, but why are they failing over here more than over there (euro)... If Ethanol is not the reason, then I don't know.

Personally Mine hasn't failed yet, but it's a crap shoot, I could be lucky and never have the pump fail, or I could join the masses today.

Maybe I'm just stabbing at shadows, but Ethanol seems like the culprit, or maybe the pump just sucks in general...

Stinger44 · 08-05-2009, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Army335xi

SO the question I have is; is there any way to legally (or illegally) remove the ethanol from the gas we pump? Maybe there is an additive that would reduce the amount of ethanol in the gas? Maybe I'm way off on a limb here, but there's got to be something... IF ethanol is the issue, then what would counteract and eliminate the ethanol in the gas? Octane boosters? Gas Treatment, something else?

I know a lot of folks that are using gas treatment in small engines like lawn mowers, etc., to counter the ethanol issue. I'm not sure what successes, if any, BMW owners are having putting gas treatment in when filling up.

Joeb427 · 08-05-2009, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Army335xi

Your right, there is no pattern, but why are they failing over here more than over there (euro)... If Ethanol is not the reason, then I don't know.

Personally Mine hasn't failed yet, but it's a crap shoot, I could be lucky and never have the pump fail, or I could join the masses today.

Maybe I'm just stabbing at shadows, but Ethanol seems like the culprit, or maybe the pump just sucks in general...

Definitely can be ethanol but the difference in mileage failure seems odd.

Joeb427 · 08-05-2009, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stinger44

I know a lot of folks that are using gas treatment in small engines like lawn mowers, etc., to counter the ethanol issue. I'm not sure what successes, if any, BMW owners are having putting gas treatment in when filling up.

ARMY335 posted this an hour ago.23K miles and no problems.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...4&postcount=39

D.B.S · 08-05-2009, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stinger44

I know a lot of folks that are using gas treatment in small engines like lawn mowers, etc., to counter the ethanol issue. I'm not sure what successes, if any, BMW owners are having putting gas treatment in when filling up.

I personally use STP gas treatment every time I fill up, but i don't know if it' helps or not... But I also fill up with Shell V-power 93 oct, so maybe all that added treatment is overkill, but if it works, why stop right... I also put in the STP Fuel injector cleaner every fill up as well, although I may stop putting that in... But IDK, it seems to work...

D.B.S · 08-05-2009, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joeb427

ARMY335 posted this an hour ago.23K miles and no problems.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...4&postcount=39

And I just posted it again... lol... WE can all speculate on this, but what we need is to find a solution...

08-01-2009, 07:59 PM	#1
dubiousONE Second Lieutenant 43 Rep 247 Posts Drives: 2009 E92 335 Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: California iTrader: (1)	How is HPFP Failure caused? Symptoms? Please excuse my ignorance to this topic but, what are the symptoms of a HPFP failure? What is the biggest cause of this? How or Why does it happen? How do I know when it happens? Most of you who have experienced HPFP failure, are you pushing your cars all the time or can this also happen to very conservative drivers as well? Thanks in advance for your responses.
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08-01-2009, 08:05 PM	#2
curamie Lieutenant 34 Rep 437 Posts Drives: 08 e90 335i SG Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Irvine iTrader: (3)	okay here is my story the limp mode was only occured when i turn dtc off all the way and drive the car hard... but yesterday dtc was half off and got into limp mode... before this, i had a trouble putting gas in my car, it wont go in automatically, so i had to do it with my hands.. and then got into limp mode(chevron) I have maintenance in 2k miles so will ask to dealer to change the fuel pump....
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08-02-2009, 02:53 AM	#4
JoeyBananaz18 Brigadier General 398 Rep 4,084 Posts Drives: metrocard Join Date: May 2009 Location: Whitestone, NY iTrader: (3)	when it was time for a first fill up, i was to my local sunoco and reached for the 91 button. then i got hit with this theory: if i use a higher octane gas, it would put less strain on the pump because less fuel would be needed to get pumped in to get the right octane. i pressed the 93 button, pressed it again tonight and will from now on in hopes i can crack this mystery. i tried starting a thread like this. got nowhere. i want to know the cause. there is no reason for this. __________________ 7/18/09- I pick up my baby- 2009 E92 335i Xdrive, Space Gray over Coral Red. Premium Pkg, Cold Weather Pkg, M-Sport Pkg, 193Ms, Gloss Black grills, Custom Gloss Black Mirrors, Performance shift and E-brake boot, M3 spoiler, Euro fog switch, gloss black interior tim, Coco-Mats (red/black), H&R coilovers, 19'' Alufelgen SF-71s......
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08-02-2009, 11:03 AM	#8
JoeyBananaz18 Brigadier General 398 Rep 4,084 Posts Drives: metrocard Join Date: May 2009 Location: Whitestone, NY iTrader: (3)	iv heard that about the ethanol. they pump more ethanol into the gas so that the stations can stretch out their reserves. the new 7? wow. this is terrible. next up will be the X5/6Ms. __________________ 7/18/09- I pick up my baby- 2009 E92 335i Xdrive, Space Gray over Coral Red. Premium Pkg, Cold Weather Pkg, M-Sport Pkg, 193Ms, Gloss Black grills, Custom Gloss Black Mirrors, Performance shift and E-brake boot, M3 spoiler, Euro fog switch, gloss black interior tim, Coco-Mats (red/black), H&R coilovers, 19'' Alufelgen SF-71s......
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08-04-2009, 09:11 PM	#10
reprod Lieutenant Colonel 148 Rep 1,728 Posts Drives: '16 M3 ZCP Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Bay Area, CA iTrader: (6)	I'm sticking it to the ethanol. Even though we have a small amount of Euro 335 drivers I do not recall seeing even one thread about any one of them complaining about fuel pump issues at all. I've used 93 consistently and occasionally give the car a good push on the pedal when I get the chance. After a solid 17300 miles I get a HPFP failure while hanging with an S550 on Park Avenue in NYC. Embarrasing!!! One thing I did notice was that the car only limped on me when oil temp was at 245+ degrees. Has happened to me 2 times already. This car has only seen Shell V-Power 93 gasoline (EVER!!!) The only time it saw different was when I picked it up in Munich and I still gave it Shell.... I'm convinced this ethanol is messing with our fuel pumps and BMW is emptying their reserve of fuel pumps until they can sign the contract on the upgraded models from their suppliers.
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08-05-2009, 07:10 AM	#12
D.B.S Lieutenant Colonel 30 Rep 1,748 Posts Drives: '11 X5 35i / '13 S5 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Deployed to Kuwait iTrader: (2)	SO the question I have is; is there any way to legally (or illegally) remove the ethanol from the gas we pump? Maybe there is an additive that would reduce the amount of ethanol in the gas? Maybe I'm way off on a limb here, but there's got to be something... IF ethanol is the issue, then what would counteract and eliminate the ethanol in the gas? Octane boosters? Gas Treatment, something else? __________________ BMW X5 35i: Boopie Exhaust & Intercooler, K&N Drop in Filter, JB3 (3+ psi) 2013 Dodge Challenger R/T: CAI, Catch Can, Custom Exhaust, Headers, 87MM Throttle Body, Diablo Custom 93 OCT Tune
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08-05-2009, 07:22 AM	#13
Lynchmob6 Major 368 Rep 1,175 Posts Drives: 2015 SO/SO F80 & 135 M-Sport Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Central Florida iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 BMW 128i Conve ... [0.00] 2015 BMW M3 [0.00]	I am over in Germany and I know several folks that have 335's like me. I do know of one fuel pump failure. It is a 2008, and it happened to the guy at about 10K miles. Haven't heard of any others though.
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08-05-2009, 07:45 AM	#14
bmwbadboy Enlisted Member 5 Rep 30 Posts Drives: 2009 328i Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Virginia iTrader: (0) Garage List 1989 325i [0.00] 2009 328i [0.00]	What is the part or mechanism that fails in the fuel pump? Is it the motor itself that failed. (it's electric) circuits, transistors? Is it a mechanical part in the pump. I'm not an engineer but if we knew exactly what piece failed on the pump then you might be closer to a determination of why it failed. The fact that some ethanol flows through the pump and is in contact with some part of the pump could be the failure point. (deterioration)The concentration is advertised at 90/10. Hardly seems that such a small concentration would be the problem. We would need to know how many HPFP failures occurred by region to make a statement that the problem is mostly US bound 335's. Probably something we will never find out. Dirty corporate secrets. If it is a US problem then what other differences are engineered with the US models? If any?
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