335i Automatic Impressions?

havoc1 · 08-17-2009, 02:08 PM

Hi all,

Am keen on a 335i and am seriously considering a steptronic auto, as I do a lot of town driving.

What do you reckon to the auto gearbox?

Specifically, how rapidly and fully do you find the torque converter locks up in each gear?

I understand it will downshift immediately on request. How rapidly does it upshift, and how long does it slip for when you change up?

How do you find it is taking off from rest? A friend's wife has one and he complains that it is quite slow from rest - starts in second?

Finally, how do you get on with the paddles? Do you find you use them much.

All views appreciated, cheers.

TMP · 08-17-2009, 03:17 PM

From a 330d point of view....auto box is superb, locks up very quickly (around 2k).

D selection is generally spot and with down or up shifts you really can control how it changes with just your right foot.

I do use the paddles alot - e.g. to nudge the box to upshift a second before it would have done it anyway (I still often revert to a manual box driving style). Also, two downsifts via the paddles is a lot quicker than a kickdown! On my fav backroads - manual paddles are a close subsitute to a MT.

In terms of pulling away from rest, mine uses 1st even with a lot of throttle.

I did have a bit of an issue with the box lagging from 2nd to 3rd. After a dealer reset, the lag was elimated.

I belive that Eff Dynamics autos are more effiecient that non ED - so watch out for that. Not sure if its just software and/or they lockup earlier as well.

havoc1 · 08-19-2009, 02:20 PM

Thanks. I am really sold on the idea of a 335i but am just a bit nervous about getting the auto in case I feel I am losing out on the directness and control of a manual. I haven't driven a really modern auto for a while and just remember how much constant torque converter slip used to annoy me in older autos.

Anyone else got anything to add?

DJKhan85 · 08-19-2009, 02:31 PM

Why don't you go test drive an auto and see how you like it?

rup · 08-19-2009, 03:49 PM

modern autos are excellent but would suggest you consider a 330D instead as the extra torque from the D suits the auto better.

trixman · 08-19-2009, 04:20 PM

Guys, he's saying he's based in Arkansas... they don't even sell the 330D over there.

zltm089 · 08-19-2009, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by havoc1

Thanks. I am really sold on the idea of a 335i but am just a bit nervous about getting the auto in case I feel I am losing out on the directness and control of a manual. I haven't driven a really modern auto for a while and just remember how much constant torque converter slip used to annoy me in older autos.

Anyone else got anything to add?

downshifts sucks!!!!....get a manual.....if you're into "driving"...it will be a waste of 306bhp if you get the auto.....

nufin beats the sporty feeling of a manual!!!...not smg, dsg, s tronic, formula 1 bollocks...

MANUAL RULES!...( if you like "real" driving and can apply all the racing techniques....manual is the way to go)

zltm089 · 08-19-2009, 05:37 PM

n no, it doesn't downshift immediately on request....it won't let you use the rev properly to reduce speed!....it will only downshift when its "safe" to do so without blowing the engine!...etc....bullocks...

xenon · 08-20-2009, 02:11 AM

Without wanting to open the whole auto v manual debate or the "only a manual is a proper drivers' car debate" I would say that I think the steptronic is dreadful. The DCT is excellent - is that available your side of the pond?

Don't ever think the steptronic in manual mode is anything like a manual; it isn't. It still does what it bloody wants.

creepy coupe · 08-20-2009, 02:24 AM

Try the DCT it's really very good, you get a mechanical connection on lift off, so you can forget the "autos are disconnected in the corners" argument, because the DCT uses wet clutches and not just high pressure fluid to drive.

The shifts are seamless when you want them to be, of more aggressive in sport of manual mode, you also get sequential mode, if you like a stick in your hand.

With DCT in the 335i you also get creep just like a traditional auto when you take your foot off the brake, something you don't get with the M3, which can make starting off a bit jerky.

It also blips the throttle on down shifts, so you even sound like a good driver.

havoc1 · 08-20-2009, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xenon

Without wanting to open the whole auto v manual debate or the "only a manual is a proper drivers' car debate" I would say that I think the steptronic is dreadful. The DCT is excellent - is that available your side of the pond?

Don't ever think the steptronic in manual mode is anything like a manual; it isn't. It still does what it bloody wants.

I'm in Britain, but I really want a touring so DCT is out - the cars with it are all too expensive for my price range anyway.

When you say Steptronic does what it wants even in manual mode, what do you mean? That it shifts up at redline?

Cheers

TMP · 08-20-2009, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xenon

Don't ever think the steptronic in manual mode is anything like a manual; it isn't. It still does what it bloody wants.

Not sure what you mean here

Yes it will upshift it you red line it (or down shift at v low revs) but it will stay in your selected gear otherwise - ideal for B roads e.g it will stay in 3rd around a corner and will not change gear

doughboy · 08-20-2009, 03:55 PM

Go manual man. Cheaper too. Creepy will soon get bored of the DCT........

I had a VAG DSG in an A3 2.0T

Yes it had that mechanical connection in gear that a manual has.

But in 'manual' it still upshifted at high revs and kicked down on its own. Vey dull too. But i'm sure the BMW DCT has more lively programming.

Trying to dyno it, it almost lept off the rollers down shifting on full throttle.

Its all in the software with these gearboxes, thats why i like manual, it really is the last bastion of 100% brain control you've got in a car these days!

G33 · 08-20-2009, 04:17 PM

i went for a spin in a DCT 335i and i must say it did seem like any other auto (boring) except shifting much more seamlessly. still didnt excite me as i thought it wud tho. id rather have SMG II or III slower to change if u want to count the decimals but at least you know when uve changed gear with the brutal shunts it give u but personally id say thats all part of the sequential driving experience

xenon · 08-21-2009, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMP

Not sure what you mean here

Yes it will upshift it you red line it (or down shift at v low revs) but it will stay in your selected gear otherwise - ideal for B roads e.g it will stay in 3rd around a corner and will not change gear

No it doesn't. Let's say I'm in manual 3, in a town at 20mph. A bus is indicating to pull out so I think I'll just nip round him. If I accelerate briskly (i.e. hit the kickdown switch) the car immediately drops a cog, the revs soar, my passengers get pinned in their seats and I scream past looking like a cockend. The car has plenty enough power to do what I need staying in third; in a manual I wouldn't dream of changing down.

Now, if I was in Auto mode I could accept this - the car sees the acceleration demand and selects the most responsive gear. Fair enough, that's what automatics do. However, if I have dictated that I am in manual 3 the car should do what I bloody well tell it, subject to not stalling or over-revving.

The steptronic is a hill of shit.

TMP · 08-21-2009, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xenon

No it doesn't. Let's say I'm in manual 3, in a town at 20mph. A bus is indicating to pull out so I think I'll just nip round him. If I accelerate briskly (i.e. hit the kickdown switch) the car immediately drops a cog, the revs soar, my passengers get pinned in their seats and I scream past looking like a cockend. The car has plenty enough power to do what I need staying in third; in a manual I wouldn't dream of changing down.

Now, if I was in Auto mode I could accept this - the car sees the acceleration demand and selects the most responsive gear. Fair enough, that's what automatics do. However, if I have dictated that I am in manual 3 the car should do what I bloody well tell it, subject to not stalling or over-revving.

The steptronic is a hill of shit.

So if you are in 3rd at 20mph, and you depress the kick down switch - you are not accellertating gently past a bus.....you are on full throttle anyway so would charge past the bus looking like a "cockend".

I do get your point however, in M mode, IMO even pressing the kickdown switch shouldnt result in a gear change.......but at 3rd in 20mph the best gear for those revs is 2nd. (I tried this in a VW Rocco with DSG and that does the same.)

However, I have just learnt to use full throttle without de-pressing the kickdown and car stays in the gear I have selected.

xenon · 08-21-2009, 02:42 AM

No you're not on full throttle. The kickdown switch is not a physical switch at the throttle end-stop as it was in days of yore, the fly by wire measures how quick the throttle application is and then changes down. This is a) too sensitive and b) should not happen if I'm in manual mode. We agree on point (b) it appears.

Likewise if I'm in on the motorway and a lorry pulls out - I back of the throttle and cruise behind the lorry at 60. He pulls in and unless I accelerate back to 75 very gently it will drop down a gear. Why, for crying out loud??? Even worse if I dare to resume the cruise control!!

If it's got a manual mode it will never be like a true manual, but it would be 200% better if it did as I asked wherever it was physically possible.

If you say it has never kicked down when you haven't wanted it to, I would find that hard to believe.

I hate it with a passion.

Incidentally, the box is the same in Alpina cars but the software is changed so it behaves as I would like.

creepy coupe · 08-21-2009, 03:04 AM

I'd imagine it depends on what engine you have, but with the 335i and I'm sure the diesel also, it has so much low end grunt, you shouldn't need to "nail" it, if I'm in manual, I just flick one of the paddle shifters and drop a gear if required and if in sport mode unless I'm in a lift off throttle position, it holds a lower gear then normal mode anyway, so doesn't need a drop.

It does take a couple of weeks to get to grips with a DCT and get the best from them, there not for everyone, but the old argument of being detached from the car/road is a thing of the past IMO

xenon · 08-21-2009, 03:21 AM

You're talking about the DCT, Del? That's in a different league to the shitronic and does as you ask.

creepy coupe · 08-21-2009, 03:36 AM

I was trying to answer TMP's last post Ian, when he mentioned DSG and Auto in the same post, I should have quoted him to be clearer.

TMP · 08-21-2009, 03:59 AM

So maybe we have different software versions - mine does not kick down until I hit a 'click' on the accelerator pedal (which I do have and yes I think mine is fly by wire)

Again, agree ours should be programmed to take that out (like Aplina as you have mentioned).

As for me, I accepted that moving to an Auto gives me the all benefits I wanted, while having to compromise a little away from a full MT.

T335i · 08-21-2009, 08:45 AM

Dont really know what the problem is, I have a 335i steptronic, and for dayly driving the "D" works good. Often i do find myself using manual with the paddles and than I am totaly in control of what gear the car is in. It will stay in the gear, only exception being over or under revving the engine, or using the kickdown. You do feel the end of the throttle verry well before the kickdown, i have never had it change gear if i did not want it to.
If you use the car for everyday driving and like autos, i would not hesitate getting a steptronic. (but off course DCT is the better option) If you really intend to use the car for fast and lively driving, than obviously nothing beats the control you have with a manual box.
All the best with your choise...

08-17-2009, 02:08 PM	#1
havoc1 New Member 3 Rep 6 Posts Drives: Merc C320 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Scotland iTrader: (0)	335i Automatic Impressions? Hi all, Am keen on a 335i and am seriously considering a steptronic auto, as I do a lot of town driving. What do you reckon to the auto gearbox? Specifically, how rapidly and fully do you find the torque converter locks up in each gear? I understand it will downshift immediately on request. How rapidly does it upshift, and how long does it slip for when you change up? How do you find it is taking off from rest? A friend's wife has one and he complains that it is quite slow from rest - starts in second? Finally, how do you get on with the paddles? Do you find you use them much. All views appreciated, cheers.
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08-17-2009, 03:17 PM	#2
TMP Brigadier General 349 Rep 3,022 Posts Drives: M6 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Cheshire iTrader: (0)	From a 330d point of view....auto box is superb, locks up very quickly (around 2k). D selection is generally spot and with down or up shifts you really can control how it changes with just your right foot. I do use the paddles alot - e.g. to nudge the box to upshift a second before it would have done it anyway (I still often revert to a manual box driving style). Also, two downsifts via the paddles is a lot quicker than a kickdown! On my fav backroads - manual paddles are a close subsitute to a MT. In terms of pulling away from rest, mine uses 1st even with a lot of throttle. I did have a bit of an issue with the box lagging from 2nd to 3rd. After a dealer reset, the lag was elimated. I belive that Eff Dynamics autos are more effiecient that non ED - so watch out for that. Not sure if its just software and/or they lockup earlier as well. __________________ M2 Arrived! Family 5er
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08-19-2009, 02:20 PM	#3
havoc1 New Member 3 Rep 6 Posts Drives: Merc C320 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Scotland iTrader: (0)	Thanks. I am really sold on the idea of a 335i but am just a bit nervous about getting the auto in case I feel I am losing out on the directness and control of a manual. I haven't driven a really modern auto for a while and just remember how much constant torque converter slip used to annoy me in older autos. Anyone else got anything to add?
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08-19-2009, 02:31 PM	#4
DJKhan85 Major 24 Rep 1,190 Posts Drives: 2011 4dr 6mt Golf GTI Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Boston Massachusetts iTrader: (1)	Why don't you go test drive an auto and see how you like it? __________________ 2011 VW GTI 4dr-6mt-Sunroof-Nav-Xenons OLD: 08 335i AW/CR/Poplar 6mt-ZSP-ZPP-ZCW-iPod-iDrive-PDC-Style 230s w/FK 452-Dinan LSD
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08-19-2009, 03:49 PM	#5
rup Private First Class 4 Rep 171 Posts Drives: Z4 - 23 Sdrive Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: London iTrader: (0)	modern autos are excellent but would suggest you consider a 330D instead as the extra torque from the D suits the auto better.
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08-19-2009, 04:20 PM	#6
trixman Major 33 Rep 1,269 Posts Drives: A Rental Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Creepy Crawley iTrader: (1) Garage List 2007 BMW E92 335d [0.00] 2003 M3 CSL [0.00] 2007 E92 335i [0.00]	Guys, he's saying he's based in Arkansas... they don't even sell the 330D over there.
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08-19-2009, 05:37 PM	#8
zltm089 Banned 243 Rep 7,690 Posts Drives: 335i SE Coupe Space Grey Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: LONDON iTrader: (0) Garage List 2006 BMW 335i [10.00]	n no, it doesn't downshift immediately on request....it won't let you use the rev properly to reduce speed!....it will only downshift when its "safe" to do so without blowing the engine!...etc....bullocks...
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08-20-2009, 02:11 AM	#9
xenon Major General 1397 Rep 8,083 Posts Drives: 2021 G21 330i M-Sport Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Coventry iTrader: (0)	Without wanting to open the whole auto v manual debate or the "only a manual is a proper drivers' car debate" I would say that I think the steptronic is dreadful. The DCT is excellent - is that available your side of the pond? Don't ever think the steptronic in manual mode is anything like a manual; it isn't. It still does what it bloody wants. __________________ Ian Current: 2021 G21 330i M-Sport Previous: 2018 A6 Avant S-Line MMI+, 2014 F31 320d M-Sport, 2013 F10 520d M-Sport, 2011 F10 530d M-Sport, 2008 320i M-Sport Coupe, 2002 325i, 2001 318i valvetronic, 1998 318i, 1996 525i, 1990 Porsche 944S2
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08-20-2009, 02:24 AM	#10
creepy coupe Lieutenant General 1867 Rep 13,043 Posts Drives: BMW M340I G20 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: UK iTrader: (2) Garage List 2015 BMW 435d [0.00] 2009 335i [0.00]	Try the DCT it's really very good, you get a mechanical connection on lift off, so you can forget the "autos are disconnected in the corners" argument, because the DCT uses wet clutches and not just high pressure fluid to drive. The shifts are seamless when you want them to be, of more aggressive in sport of manual mode, you also get sequential mode, if you like a stick in your hand. With DCT in the 335i you also get creep just like a traditional auto when you take your foot off the brake, something you don't get with the M3, which can make starting off a bit jerky. It also blips the throttle on down shifts, so you even sound like a good driver.
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08-20-2009, 03:55 PM	#13
doughboy Major General 1545 Rep 8,970 Posts Drives: 2018 M2 Comp 6MT Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: UK iTrader: (2)	Go manual man. Cheaper too. Creepy will soon get bored of the DCT........ I had a VAG DSG in an A3 2.0T Yes it had that mechanical connection in gear that a manual has. But in 'manual' it still upshifted at high revs and kicked down on its own. Vey dull too. But i'm sure the BMW DCT has more lively programming. Trying to dyno it, it almost lept off the rollers down shifting on full throttle. Its all in the software with these gearboxes, thats why i like manual, it really is the last bastion of 100% brain control you've got in a car these days!
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08-20-2009, 04:17 PM	#14
G33 Colonel 91 Rep 2,079 Posts Drives: 335i Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: London iTrader: (0)	i went for a spin in a DCT 335i and i must say it did seem like any other auto (boring) except shifting much more seamlessly. still didnt excite me as i thought it wud tho. id rather have SMG II or III slower to change if u want to count the decimals but at least you know when uve changed gear with the brutal shunts it give u but personally id say thats all part of the sequential driving experience
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08-21-2009, 02:42 AM	#17
xenon Major General 1397 Rep 8,083 Posts Drives: 2021 G21 330i M-Sport Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Coventry iTrader: (0)	No you're not on full throttle. The kickdown switch is not a physical switch at the throttle end-stop as it was in days of yore, the fly by wire measures how quick the throttle application is and then changes down. This is a) too sensitive and b) should not happen if I'm in manual mode. We agree on point (b) it appears. Likewise if I'm in on the motorway and a lorry pulls out - I back of the throttle and cruise behind the lorry at 60. He pulls in and unless I accelerate back to 75 very gently it will drop down a gear. Why, for crying out loud??? Even worse if I dare to resume the cruise control!! If it's got a manual mode it will never be like a true manual, but it would be 200% better if it did as I asked wherever it was physically possible. If you say it has never kicked down when you haven't wanted it to, I would find that hard to believe. I hate it with a passion. Incidentally, the box is the same in Alpina cars but the software is changed so it behaves as I would like. __________________ Ian Current: 2021 G21 330i M-Sport Previous: 2018 A6 Avant S-Line MMI+, 2014 F31 320d M-Sport, 2013 F10 520d M-Sport, 2011 F10 530d M-Sport, 2008 320i M-Sport Coupe, 2002 325i, 2001 318i valvetronic, 1998 318i, 1996 525i, 1990 Porsche 944S2
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08-21-2009, 03:04 AM	#18
creepy coupe Lieutenant General 1867 Rep 13,043 Posts Drives: BMW M340I G20 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: UK iTrader: (2) Garage List 2015 BMW 435d [0.00] 2009 335i [0.00]	I'd imagine it depends on what engine you have, but with the 335i and I'm sure the diesel also, it has so much low end grunt, you shouldn't need to "nail" it, if I'm in manual, I just flick one of the paddle shifters and drop a gear if required and if in sport mode unless I'm in a lift off throttle position, it holds a lower gear then normal mode anyway, so doesn't need a drop. It does take a couple of weeks to get to grips with a DCT and get the best from them, there not for everyone, but the old argument of being detached from the car/road is a thing of the past IMO
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08-21-2009, 03:21 AM	#19
xenon Major General 1397 Rep 8,083 Posts Drives: 2021 G21 330i M-Sport Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Coventry iTrader: (0)	You're talking about the DCT, Del? That's in a different league to the shitronic and does as you ask. __________________ Ian Current: 2021 G21 330i M-Sport Previous: 2018 A6 Avant S-Line MMI+, 2014 F31 320d M-Sport, 2013 F10 520d M-Sport, 2011 F10 530d M-Sport, 2008 320i M-Sport Coupe, 2002 325i, 2001 318i valvetronic, 1998 318i, 1996 525i, 1990 Porsche 944S2
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08-21-2009, 03:36 AM	#20
creepy coupe Lieutenant General 1867 Rep 13,043 Posts Drives: BMW M340I G20 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: UK iTrader: (2) Garage List 2015 BMW 435d [0.00] 2009 335i [0.00]	I was trying to answer TMP's last post Ian, when he mentioned DSG and Auto in the same post, I should have quoted him to be clearer.
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08-21-2009, 03:59 AM	#21
TMP Brigadier General 349 Rep 3,022 Posts Drives: M6 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Cheshire iTrader: (0)	So maybe we have different software versions - mine does not kick down until I hit a 'click' on the accelerator pedal (which I do have and yes I think mine is fly by wire) Again, agree ours should be programmed to take that out (like Aplina as you have mentioned). As for me, I accepted that moving to an Auto gives me the all benefits I wanted, while having to compromise a little away from a full MT. __________________ M2 Arrived! Family 5er
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08-21-2009, 08:45 AM	#22
T335i Enlisted Member 0 Rep 31 Posts Drives: 2007 E92 335i Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Holland iTrader: (0)	Dont really know what the problem is, I have a 335i steptronic, and for dayly driving the "D" works good. Often i do find myself using manual with the paddles and than I am totaly in control of what gear the car is in. It will stay in the gear, only exception being over or under revving the engine, or using the kickdown. You do feel the end of the throttle verry well before the kickdown, i have never had it change gear if i did not want it to. If you use the car for everyday driving and like autos, i would not hesitate getting a steptronic. (but off course DCT is the better option) If you really intend to use the car for fast and lively driving, than obviously nothing beats the control you have with a manual box. All the best with your choise...
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