How much additional HP can I squeeze out?

[SJ]

Sorry if this is a repeat, but I just couldn't digest all the information in this forum.

I'm currently shopping for a 128/135. I have ruled out the 135 from the chronic HPFP problems, and probable carbon buildup problems. BMW is not fixing these.

I like the 128 a lot too, but I do wish it had more oomph!

So, my question:

- can one get another 30+ or more hp out of this engine with an ECU tune and some hardware?

- could this be done for reasonable overall cost (e.g. $3k)

- would such mods negate warranty, or are there things one can do within warranty?

Thanks for you input!

[3liter1]

As my moniker hints - i am also the owner of an audi S4 - which will blow the doors off my 128. The 128 is way more fun! Keep the rpms over 3k and the car is screaming. Trust me, after a while you will become immune to more HP. Either that or you will work your way up to a Bugatti Veyron. At some point, the insanity has to stop and one has to realize that more HP does not equal more fun. Learn to drive the car at its limits. Join BMW CCA and partake in track events. There you will admire the drivers in the lower HP cars who beat the pants off the newbie M3 drivers who can't maintain speed in a corner. They pull ahead on the straight, then get eaten up each corner. Track rules are if someone keeps catching up to you in the corners, they are faster, let them pass! Learn to drive is the greatest fun you can have!!!! Worrying about posted 0-60 times is for... well.... you complete the sentence.

[Evice]

I still would like to squeeze out extra HP from my engine.. It is the same logic of getting the car to the limits..

[SJ]

Originally Posted by AudiS4

As my moniker hints - i am also the owner of an audi S4 - which will blow the doors off my 128. The 128 is way more fun! Keep the rpms over 3k and the car is screaming. Trust me, after a while you will become immune to more HP. Either that or you will work your way up to a Bugatti Veyron. At some point, the insanity has to stop and one has to realize that more HP does not equal more fun. Learn to drive the car at its limits. Join BMW CCA and partake in track events. There you will admire the drivers in the lower HP cars who beat the pants off the newbie M3 drivers who can't maintain speed in a corner. They pull ahead on the straight, then get eaten up each corner. Track rules are if someone keeps catching up to you in the corners, they are faster, let them pass! Learn to drive is the greatest fun you can have!!!! Worrying about posted 0-60 times is for... well.... you complete the sentence.

This is a psychology answer to my question. But in here, I'm looking for technical answers. But thank anyway.,

Again, anyone ... what can you get out of the N52 ?? Thanks!

[raceman]

In Euro speced N52 engine that is initially weaker than 128i (218 HP) several tuners resolved 'underpowering' through loading cracked software from top N52 setup (stock in330i/X3). Point is in forcing ECU to accept generic software without confliting with OEM software and without getting warning codes later.
At least 3 different tuners did it AFAIK.
Result is 272 HP + mostly 5-15 HP with proper exhaust.
Cost without exhaust in Europe varies from 1200-1800 Euros for such tuning.
On USA speced car, again from other people words, seems that intake manifold should be replaced too (I have no idea what would it cost, but at least around 1000$) and than same manipulation should be done on software.
In total, I would expect that US tuner would be able to offer it for less than 3000 $ (given that US prices for tuning are much lower than in Europe).
I've no idea if anyone is doing that in US, but it is strange that such re-powering is not offered, due to its relative simplicity and general lack of adverse effects (everything remains within manufacturers specification and parts).

[Yuzi]

I believe anything you do under the hood will void your warranty if BMW being an asshole. I'll take my mods off when I go to do my schedule service. I mean you don't wanna get in trouble for small stuff right...I believe you are able to push N52 close to 300hp with software + hardware like intake, exhaust, pulley etc bit and pieces~ 3k-4k seems reasonable...Anyhow I wouldn't put any serious mods till my warranty is done

[SJ]

Yuzi, Raceman: close to 300 ??? Wow, that is more than I expected.

Can the drive train, trans, etc. , in the 128i handle the increase?

About warranty, that's a good point. Any excuse whether relevant or not for them not to cover something saves them money. It's wierd to see how people live and die around that warranty. It's part of the reliability problems BMW has (real and imagined) that creates this whole dysfunctional behavior.

It would be fun to mod the car while it is still relatively new, but I guess that's not possible.

[SJ]

One other observation: I was reading in the Lexus IS250/350 forum that Lexus code in the ECU is encrypted and inaccessible. No one's been able to tune it. It seems odd that if that's possible (which seems it easiily should be) why BMW doesn't use some advance encryption for their ECUs ???

For the 128i, how much tuning improvement comes from hardware vs. software?

[BMW86]

imho opinion if you are buying the 128i with plans to upgrade it and squeeze out a respectable amount of power that you will notice the 135i is the best option. you can justify the price difference over the 128i, it has dealer backed warranty and it is plenty quick stock. add a chip and you're already looking at 400hp, something i doubt the 128i can compete with unless you spend big cash. best thing is to decide how much power you need and what is your budget and run with that. the 135i is definitely the better car over the 128i, it's just how it is. anyone who tells you differently will probably tell you the 135i is better than the new m3 !

[SJ]

Originally Posted by BMW86

imho opinion if you are buying the 128i with plans to upgrade it and squeeze out a respectable amount of power that you will notice the 135i is the best option. you can justify the price difference over the 128i, it has dealer backed warranty and it is plenty quick stock. add a chip and you're already looking at 400hp, something i doubt the 128i can compete with unless you spend big cash. best thing is to decide how much power you need and what is your budget and run with that. the 135i is definitely the better car over the 128i, it's just how it is. anyone who tells you differently will probably tell you the 135i is better than the new m3 !

I agree, you are right - just move up to the 135i to get more power. I started out looking into the 135i, and became concerned with a few things specific to the N54 engine: high risk of (repeated) HPFP failures, carbon buildup on direct injection, etc., evenutual replacement of turbos ($$) because they are a "high wear part" ultimately, I would think.

That's when I started thinking about the humble 128i: no HPFP, no direct injection, no additional high rev wear parts (turbos, ), etc.. I started to wonder, how much, safely, could you get out of a 128i with ECU tune and non-moving parts like intakes and exhaust ??? And for how much $$ For example, could you get +50hp/50ft.lb. for $2.5k, installed, out of the 128i? That might be quite a fun car, cost effective and more reliable. Of course you would never get the performance like a tuned 135i....,nor would be all the way up to the level of the base 135i. But ... that could still be quite a fun car, and very reliable ...

[dragon1761]

i think there was a post earlier about how increasing the air intake actually increases hp. Its up on this website somewhere.

[Yuzi]

Originally Posted by SJ

Yuzi, Raceman: close to 300 ??? Wow, that is more than I expected.

Can the drive train, trans, etc. , in the 128i handle the increase?

About warranty, that's a good point. Any excuse whether relevant or not for them not to cover something saves them money. It's wierd to see how people live and die around that warranty. It's part of the reliability problems BMW has (real and imagined) that creates this whole dysfunctional behavior.

It would be fun to mod the car while it is still relatively new, but I guess that's not possible.

Of course it will handle 300hp. the 130i in europe got the exact same engine as 128i and it's pushing 270hp stock. 125i/128 is like a detune ECU version of 130i.

[spam052]

could it be possible if for example i knew a bmw tech to get him to upload the 130 ecu programing into my 128 or is that dumb???

[dr.bmw]

Raceman: can you provide the details of the 3 tuners that have successfully tuned the european 125i engine to produce at least the power and torque of the 130i? You've made several claims of such without any evidence so far
cheers

[Lester]

It's the law of diminished returns. So what if you can get another 20 - 30 hp? I can see no real return in spending almost as much on an upgrade to get almost to what a 135 starts off at. Then you have an off warranty car that leaves you vulnerable. Why not just start off with the 135? Even if you get the hp up on a 128, you still won't have the flat torque curve of the N54.

A 128 is meant to be and should be used for what is was intended for - a fast, sporty, nice handling coupe/vert. Of course, this is how I see it, others may see it differently.

[Lester]

Originally Posted by spam052

could it be possible if for example i knew a bmw tech to get him to upload the 130 ecu programing into my 128 or is that dumb???

Not dumb, it fact it is quite creative. But - it will never work, the computer is smart enough to know what engine goes with what CPU. And your friend would get his ass fired for trying unless his dad owns the shop.

[ALLMuRdErEdOut]

Originally Posted by AudiS4

As my moniker hints - i am also the owner of an audi S4 - which will blow the doors off my 128. The 128 is way more fun! Keep the rpms over 3k and the car is screaming. Trust me, after a while you will become immune to more HP. Either that or you will work your way up to a Bugatti Veyron. At some point, the insanity has to stop and one has to realize that more HP does not equal more fun. Learn to drive the car at its limits. Join BMW CCA and partake in track events. There you will admire the drivers in the lower HP cars who beat the pants off the newbie M3 drivers who can't maintain speed in a corner. They pull ahead on the straight, then get eaten up each corner. Track rules are if someone keeps catching up to you in the corners, they are faster, let them pass! Learn to drive is the greatest fun you can have!!!! Worrying about posted 0-60 times is for... well.... you complete the sentence.

hey, what yr S4? The V6 twin Turbo or the V8?

[raceman]

Originally Posted by dr.bmw

Raceman: can you provide the details of the 3 tuners that have successfully tuned the european 125i engine to produce at least the power and torque of the 130i? You've made several claims of such without any evidence so far
cheers

Daehler Motors
125i = 286 HP
http://www.daehler.com/pdf/2008/1erE82E88.pdf

DS Motorsport
125i=280 HP
http://www.ds-motorsport.de/bmw-cars/1er/e81e82e87.html

Nauka-Avto
125i=285 HP
http://www.nauka-avto.ru/tuning_kata...2N_218_285.jpg

[spam052]

Originally Posted by raceman

Daehler Motors
125i = 286 HP
http://www.daehler.com/pdf/2008/1erE82E88.pdf

DS Motorsport
125i=280 HP
http://www.ds-motorsport.de/bmw-cars/1er/e81e82e87.html

Nauka-Avto
125i=285 HP
http://www.nauka-avto.ru/tuning_kata...2N_218_285.jpg

thanks race man!

[Fireflyer239]

C'mon American tuners!! give us the ECU upgrades that constitute the majority of these gains! I guess that since the smaller motors are more prevalent in Europe, they get more of the tuning attention. However, there are plenty of us 128i owners here in the States who just plain prefer a NA motor for a variety of reasons, and would like to get back the 30 HP that we've been robbed of!

[dr.bmw]

thanks!

[raceman]

Originally Posted by spam052

thanks race man!

With pleasure.

I myself drive one of such tuned cars (well with better spec, due to catless exhaust manifold, better breathing exhaust system and adjusted ECU to Injen SRI intake).
300-310 HP 125i is reality and car is not left much behind by 135i in real street situation. On the contrary, I like this engine much better than stock twin turbo, although it lacks a bit of torque on lower revs, but works like butter on upper.
Now US, tuners do something to help guys overseas. It's not rocket science.