[RagingKileak]

Hello all, your going to enjoy this...

Couple of days ago I was browsing the web looking for a CSI box set for a present, lo and behold, I found it for £25.00 on Additions Direct - Crazy price for all eight seasons.

I rang them, not having an account and was greeted by a Geordie who was delighted to take an order for £25.00 plus postage of £3.95.

I asked her to do so, gave her the details etc and declined all offers of credit etc - paying by Switch.

I then perused the web further, and found a couple more boxed sets which took my fancy and/or would make suitable gifts. I rang again and asked to add these two more (total £38.00) to the order.

They agreed, saying postage should be paid again but as she was such a happy Geordie, she'd sort it for no extra! Happy days!!

However, nothing good comes of bargains at Christmas, and so this evening around 22.00 I got an email stating it was cancelled under clause 3.2 of their website T&C's due to a pricing error.

Fair play, you may think... Until part 2 of my cunning plan came into play - they had rather foolishly taken the money, in full, and accepted the order.

Firstly, I believe that the sale of goods act states that with regards to distance selling, if a price is incorrect an order can be cancelled prior to acceptance and money being taken. In the case that money is taken however, I believe they clearly state that a contract has been entered into and must be honoured.

Secondly, clause 3.2 to which their email refers clearly states that the order will be reviewed and acceptance status will not be given until verification happens. I have three forms of verification... Acceptance status online, acceptance from two seperate agents of the company, and because the money has been taken!

I rang them and was left on hold from 22.05 to 22.25 before a rude woman answered (African descent) and tried to tell me she couldn't find my account... I insisted on escalation to a supervisor... After several refusals, she agreed to try put me through... I waited on hold for ten further mins before she picked up, said she had 'thought she put me through' and dropped me into another queue.

Five mins later and I was through to a Geordie lass. She found my account first time... I explained the situation. Naturally, she quoted the T&C's and I easily deferred her with the kind of statements made above... She then tried the tack that I would need to write to head office, which I rebuffed with some banter about 'the contract being made on the Internet and therefore email or telephone are considered acceptable means of representation' etc...

Anyway, they have agreed to call me tomorrow from their 'queries' team...

I guess what I am wondering now is... Does any of what I say have relevance?I believe in these circumstances I am, but some of you guys may know better - I do this for fun to be honest and I hope I get the stuff I ordered, thought you guys might wanna follow the progress - win or lose - and could possibly offer advice!!

Matt

[E92Fan]

Originally Posted by RagingKileak

Hello all, your going to enjoy this...

Couple of days ago I was browsing the web looking for a CSI box set for a present, lo and behold, I found it for £25.00 on Additions Direct - Crazy price for all eight seasons.

I rang them, not having an account and was greeted by a Geordie who was delighted to take an order for £25.00 plus postage of £3.95.

I asked her to do so, gave her the details etc and declined all offers of credit etc - paying by Switch.

I then perused the web further, and found a couple more boxed sets which took my fancy and/or would make suitable gifts. I rang again and asked to add these two more (total £38.00) to the order.

They agreed, saying postage should be paid again but as she was such a happy Geordie, she'd sort it for no extra! Happy days!!

However, nothing good comes of bargains at Christmas, and so this evening around 22.00 I got an email stating it was cancelled under clause 3.2 of their website T&C's due to a pricing error.

Fair play, you may think... Until part 2 of my cunning plan came into play - they had rather foolishly taken the money, in full, and accepted the order.

Firstly, I believe that the sale of goods act states that with regards to distance selling, if a price is incorrect an order can be cancelled prior to acceptance and money being taken. In the case that money is taken however, I believe they clearly state that a contract has been entered into and must be honoured.

Secondly, clause 3.2 to which their email refers clearly states that the order will be reviewed and acceptance status will not be given until verification happens. I have three forms of verification... Acceptance status online, acceptance from two seperate agents of the company, and because the money has been taken!

I rang them and was left on hold from 22.05 to 22.25 before a rude woman answered (African descent) and tried to tell me she couldn't find my account... I insisted on escalation to a supervisor... After several refusals, she agreed to try put me through... I waited on hold for ten further mins before she picked up, said she had 'thought she put me through' and dropped me into another queue.

Five mins later and I was through to a Geordie lass. She found my account first time... I explained the situation. Naturally, she quoted the T&C's and I easily deferred her with the kind of statements made above... She then tried the tack that I would need to write to head office, which I rebuffed with some banter about 'the contract being made on the Internet and therefore email or telephone are considered acceptable means of representation' etc...

Anyway, they have agreed to call me tomorrow from their 'queries' team...

I guess what I am wondering now is... Does any of what I say have relevance?I believe in these circumstances I am, but some of you guys may know better - I do this for fun to be honest and I hope I get the stuff I ordered, thought you guys might wanna follow the progress - win or lose - and could possibly offer advice!!

Matt

Keep this updated - it's very much of interest because this sort of distance selling followed by a claim of a mistake etc is quite prevalent. You are on pretty sound footing given that they've confirmed the order several times and taken payment, so yes in the end I believe they will have to honour the pricing. They can request that you accept a refund in full of your money, but you are under no obligations to agree to that.

Have you browsed the Trading Standards website? I believe I saw not long ago some information pertaining to the situation you're in now.

By the way, I pity the people on the other end of the phone.... Smail vs the World...



Interestingly, the CSI box set is no longer found on the Additions Direct website... I was going to order a copy for myself !!!!

[RagingKileak]

Thanks Tone, good to see some general 'support' as it's always difficult negotiating your way through the minefield of inept/incompetent/know it all staff.

To be fair, the Geordie girls have all been fine!

I'll be either speaking to them, or sending a lengthy email tomorrow so watch this space - and for those who missed out, there might be a TV marathon at mine coming up lol!!!

Matt

[E92Fan]

Originally Posted by RagingKileak

Thanks Tone, good to see some general 'support' as it's always difficult negotiating your way through the minefield of inept/incompetent/know it all staff.

To be fair, the Geordie girls have all been fine!

I'll be either speaking to them, or sending a lengthy email tomorrow so watch this space - and for those who missed out, there might be a TV marathon at mine coming up lol!!!

Matt

Personally I'd go with the email route and not the telephone, mainly because you then have a paper trail and you can't be coerced into agreeing to something accidentally...

[RagingKileak]

Yeah totally agree mate - just want to lodge the situation and break into the 'enquiries' team!!!

It's definately on mate!!!

Matt

[NFS]

Originally Posted by RagingKileak

I do this for fun to be honest

Bloody hell - you are even worse than me

I believe that if they fail to deliver the goods within 30 days the contract will simply fall away.

[E92Fan]

Originally Posted by NFS

Bloody hell - you are even worse than me

I believe that if they fail to deliver the goods within 30 days the contract will simply fall away.

How can the contract fall away though? They've taken his money already

[RagingKileak]

Yeah I don't get that...

Matt

[NFS]

They are bound to sell at that price and you are bound to buy.

But .. if they are 'delayed' and are 'not able' to deliver with the agreed period (or 30 days if no period has been agreed) then the contract will fall away.

If they still have your money at that stage they will need to refund it.

[RagingKileak]

Erm, you may need to be more specific mate, or lay off the sherry!

Matt

[E92Fan]

Originally Posted by RagingKileak

Erm, you may need to be more specific mate, or lay off the sherry!

Matt

I think what Si is saying is that if the company manages to delay the supply of goods for more than 30 days, then they can get out of their contract with you through a loophole by declaring that they weren't able to get stock of the item, and because it's longer than 30 days they won't be able to fulfill the order so have to refund your money.

That assumes I think that the terms of supply of goods are within a 30 day period from purchase.

That's my understanding of what Si is saying...

[RagingKileak]

Originally Posted by E92Fan

I think what Si is saying is that if the company manages to delay the supply of goods for more than 30 days, then they can get out of their contract with you through a loophole by declaring that they weren't able to get stock of the item, and because it's longer than 30 days they won't be able to fulfill the order so have to refund your money.

That assumes I think that the terms of supply of goods are within a 30 day period from purchase.

That's my understanding of what Si is saying...

Then they can find that clause on their own - I am not giving it to them lol

Matt

[JLR1969]

Remind me not to cross you Matt

[RagingKileak]

I am not that bad!!!

This should happen though guys, I mean what kind of practice is charging a customer without actually having goods to send?

It serves them right - what if I had told 'Little Jimmy' that he was getting extra presents, they took the money, and then cancelled and I had to wait ages for a refund, meanwhile not only does 'Little Jimmy' not get his pressies, but £63.00 is a very real amount of money which a single mother, for example, couldnt afford to be without in the run up to Christmas!!

It's a mistake, but in many industries you PAY for your mistakes - I want to make that clear to Additions Direct (and in doing so, I gain, I wont deny that)

Matt

[- Paul -]

If you have paid - you have a binding contract with them as far as I know. You should get the goods.

[JLR1969]

Originally Posted by RagingKileak

I am not that bad!!!

This should happen though guys, I mean what kind of practice is charging a customer without actually having goods to send?

It serves them right - what if I had told 'Little Jimmy' that he was getting extra presents, they took the money, and then cancelled and I had to wait ages for a refund, meanwhile not only does 'Little Jimmy' not get his pressies, but £63.00 is a very real amount of money which a single mother, for example, couldnt afford to be without in the run up to Christmas!!

It's a mistake, but in many industries you PAY for your mistakes - I want to make that clear to Additions Direct (and in doing so, I gain, I wont deny that)

Matt

I am only joking mate, I would give them hell as well, too many people happy to be fobbed off.

[RagingKileak]

Well, still no call from them - they are definately cruising for a bruising!!

Matt

[NFS]

Originally Posted by E92Fan

I think what Si is saying is that if the company manages to delay the supply of goods for more than 30 days, then they can get out of their contract with you through a loophole by declaring that they weren't able to get stock of the item, and because it's longer than 30 days they won't be able to fulfill the order so have to refund your money.

That assumes I think that the terms of supply of goods are within a 30 day period from purchase.

That's my understanding of what Si is saying...

This is correct.

Also, as you almost certainly know, a contract requires 3 things:

1. An Offer
2. Acceptance
3. Consideration

So has a contract been formed?

Consideration has definitely happened because the credit card has been charged. But ...

In law the website advert is not an Offer it is an Invitation to Treat. The Offer comes from the consumer ordering the goods.

The retailer has an explicit term stating that Acceptance happens only when goods are dispatched:

http://www.additionsdirect.co.uk/rf/...and+Conditions

This means that there is no contract until they post the goods.

For prior examples see here:

http://econsultancy.com/blog/1926-ma...x-price-mishap

[RagingKileak]

I get it.

However, the email they sent me stated that it was expressly cancelled under section 3.2 of their T&C's which reads -

3.2 Whilst it is our intention to keep our website up to date and error free, product description or pricing errors may occur. If we discover such an error after you have submitted an order to us, we will contact you prior to accepting your order with the correct details. You may then either cancel your order or re-confirm it based on the correct information. If we are unable to contact you, we will treat your order as cancelled.

There is no mention to any further section leading me to believe that A)The message sent to me was sent to thousands of other people too B)That typically, the item is paid for on credit accounts with the company, as is their typical way of dealing hence they wont be used to dealing with people who pay up front, which is why their stupid system charged for something they didnt have in stock immediately and C)That they are either not aware, or not used to enforcing the final point of their T&C's which is the one your making reference to - this occurs to me because they have not included it in the email to me, which they should have done considering the difficult position of a person who has paid upfront, because its worded poorly, and the use of comma's works slightly in my favour as it could suggest that upon 'order acceptance' (which has been confirmed both because I ordered over the phone and because their website has that status next to both my orders) that the contract is formed, and the goods are then dispatched!

In any case, I spoke to them again today (I called them) and had a similar nightmare trying to find my account as I did yesterday.

I was eventually told that the complaint/query had been passed via the queries team to their Head Office for analysis. I commented that perhaps an email informing me would have been prudent to avoid yet another lenghty and annoying phone call?

Regardless, assuming what has been said is actually true, I may hear something in the next couple of days.

I am standing down until Friday afternoon - at which point if I have heard nothing, someone is getting both barrels!

Matt

[NFS]

Originally Posted by RagingKileak

However, the email they sent me stated that it was expressly cancelled under section 3.2 of their T&C's which reads -

3.2 Whilst it is our intention to keep our website up to date and error free, product description or pricing errors may occur. If we discover such an error after you have submitted an order to us, we will contact you prior to accepting your order with the correct details. You may then either cancel your order or re-confirm it based on the correct information. If we are unable to contact you, we will treat your order as cancelled.

Unfortunately, that seems correct to me. So far as they are concerned they have not accepted your order and there is no contract. The terms and conditions support this and this approach has previously been upheld in law.

Acceptance is dealt with in clause 3.2 itself:

we will contact you prior to accepting your order

And also in clauses 2.1 and 2.2

All orders placed through our website will be subject to our acceptance of the order.

Your order will be accepted by us (and a contract will then be formed between us) when we despatch the goods to you

Sadly, I think you have nowhere to go on this one.

They invited you to treat.

You made an offer and gave them consideration.

They realised they had made an error before they accepted your offer.

There is no contract.

[willhollin]

This goes on all the time.

Pricing error or deliberate mistake on their part? Whatever, it gets people looking at their website.

[M3-FAST]

Originally Posted by willhollin

This goes on all the time.

Pricing error or deliberate mistake on their part? Whatever, it gets people looking at their website.

......very much like the 2002 Argos fiasco with the Kodak Camera's! I actually managed to order and get one of the £350 cameras for £100 back then after they backed down due to the barrage of bad publicity.