[E90Fleet]

A very reliable source has said BMW USA is seriously looking at releasing the 323i in the USA when europe gets it .

[ward]

what engine is in that feller???

small 6 like back in the day?
I'm not sure BMW would do that, as
the 1 series is coming out at a cheaper price point
we already have 2 engine outputs in the 3 series
there's a rumored 335 on it's way

who knows, maybe either the 330 or 325 is on it's way out

[Hornet]

Don't know which European countries will eventually get the 323i but the engine itself is detuned version of the 325i's 2.5l, producing 177hp.

[F32Fleet]

Maybe current gas prices are driving this.

[carl_d]

Do you all recall this little gem from a few months back? Not only does it reveal the Direct-Injection NG engines but it also shows a US only NG51 engine (on left) which meets SULEV II. I assume this is the 323 for the US, and will meet some emission laws in the US, and will somehow be more attractive tax wise or in multi-occupancy freeway lanes???

Also note:-
NG2 engine we have now - VANOS and Valvetronic.
NG3 will add Direct-Injection (Next March???) but no more power just lower emissions
NG4 will add Turbo along with DI, VANOS and Valvetronic (next Fall??)

[mapezzul]

Originally Posted by ward

what engine is in that feller???

small 6 like back in the day?
I'm not sure BMW would do that, as
the 1 series is coming out at a cheaper price point
we already have 2 engine outputs in the 3 series
there's a rumored 335 on it's way

who knows, maybe either the 330 or 325 is on it's way out

US is NOT getting the 1 series. Been shot down, the A3 is failing and BMW does not want to cut into the MINI sales they have a monopoly with that and making a killing as the number show, it is there best seller.

[AW330i]

I had no idea that the 1 series had been scrapped for the US what a shame I was kind of looking forward to seeing them rolling around... Oh well I guess it just kind of fun seeing neat little cars like the smart, a3, and 1 series rolling around in the states even though they dont sell at all! lol

[JazzEKline]

Does anyone know the price diffrence between 323 and a 325 if it were produced

[spydrz]

Originally Posted by mapezzul

US is NOT getting the 1 series. Been shot down, the A3 is failing and BMW does not want to cut into the MINI sales they have a monopoly with that and making a killing as the number show, it is there best seller.

I've only seen one A3 since they were released...maybe they should learn, Americans don't want 30k+ hatchbacks...

[Tierfreund]

Originally Posted by JazzEKline

Does anyone know the price diffrence between 323 and a 325 if it were produced

Not even BMW markting dept. would know that yet... Has to be established at time of market introduction depending on demand.

[ward]

I hadn't heard that the 1 was dead, I knew they didn't want to bring over the 5 door wagon already available in europe, but a sedan or coupe not yet designed or publicly shown. It'll be a real shame if they don't bring it over, the 3 series is getting too big. It's as big as a friggin 5 series

I've seen about 5 of those A3's around, not a bad looking car, but starting at 25, well optioned at 33-34. If you don't keep it really lightly optioned you've got some major competition at the low 30 price point

[SCA]

A 1-Series Coupe and/or Convertible would sell well in the US. Anything with a hatch will not sell in the luxury market.

[stressdoc]

The 323 might make sense as a stop gap model in the sub-30k range. Not sure where they can cut content to make it cost effective. And the PR consequences of having a slug can not be good. Imagine the advertising field day that Honda et al would have comparing how much faster their tinboxes are compared to the great BMW. I just do not see what the 323 would have that would cause it to stand out as an engineering tour de force. It needs a sound bite, something like outstanding gas mileage or whatever that will push a buyer over the edge. It would probably be much smarter to try a 320d if they are working on that segment of the market. Probably cannot keep up with demand in euro for them though...

Would anyone on this list have opted for a 323? How much under a 325 would it have to be? 5k?

[Athos]

The conventional wisdom about what cars will and won't sell will begin to falter as gas prices go up. When people are paying $3.00 a gallon (it's around $2.80 per gallon in San Francisco now) a smaller, less powerful car, with a compact design for luggage and passengers becomes more appealing. My guess is that we'll cross this threshold sooner rather than later. I just got back from driving my 330i I in Germany. After spending about $90 on a fill-up a couple of times, I know I would not buy the same car in that environment. I think car companies would be wise to begin introducing some smaller, more fuel-efficient cars to establish these offerings early. I think BMW would be smart to offer 323 for a tad under $25K. If they could bring in the 1-series for a base around $20K, that would also be a good move.

[StewtheBassman]

My sales guy said the 323 IS coming to Canada, details to follow.

[mapezzul]

Originally Posted by ward

I hadn't heard that the 1 was dead, I knew they didn't want to bring over the 5 door wagon already available in europe, but a sedan or coupe not yet designed or publicly shown. It'll be a real shame if they don't bring it over, the 3 series is getting too big. It's as big as a friggin 5 series

I've seen about 5 of those A3's around, not a bad looking car, but starting at 25, well optioned at 33-34. If you don't keep it really lightly optioned you've got some major competition at the low 30 price point

Bayerische Motoren Werke AG,the world's No. 2 luxury automaker, delayed U.S. sales of a new entry-level 1-Series car because the initial hatchback model was unlikely to appeal to buyers, the company's CEO said this week.

"Americans don't like hatchbacks, and we are still deciding what the best model for the next 1-Series should be," BMW CEO Helmut Panke said in New York. The car's next version will be sold in the United States, he said, without giving a schedule.

BMW, seeking to replace DaimlerChrysler AG'sMercedes as the top-selling luxury brand, has introduced new models such as the X3 sport-utility vehicle and the $70,000 6-Series sports coupe to win buyers, particularly in the United States. BMW has led Mercedes in the United States since 2001 and trails Toyota Motor Corp.'s Lexus.

Munich-based BMW is building a factory in Leipzig, Germany, to free capacity in plants for the 1-Series model, which it will introduce this year in Europe. The car will compete with the Audi A3 and the Mercedes-Benz A-Class, neither sold in the United States.

Since 1990, sales of hatchback model cars in the United States have never exceeded 4.7 percent and typically don't top 2 percent, Lexington, Mass.-based Global Insight Inc. reports. Hatchbacks, with two passenger doors and a door, or hatch, in the back, accounted for 225,000, or 1.4 percent, of 16.6 million cars and trucks sold last year, Global Insight said.

"There have been negative connotations for hatchbacks because they were seen as cheap, like you couldn't afford a car with four doors," said Global Insight analyst Rebecca Lindland. "The attitudes are changing with younger buyers, but the automakers still remember they were unpopular."

BMW introduced a 3-Series hatchback, the 318t, in the United States in 1995, and sales peaked at 7,235 in 1996, Global Insight said. Sales fell every year after that to 700 in 2000, the last year for U.S. sales, Lindland said.

"Our success with the 318t many years ago was less than we expected," said Tom Purves, BMW's North American CEO. "From our perspective, there is not yet a natural hatchback market" in the United States.

Mercedes also will introduce a station-wagon version of a redesigned A-Class, specifically built for the U.S. market, in 2005, spokeswoman Donna Boland said. The A3 is scheduled to go on sale in the United States next year.

BMW sold 36,000 Minis, also a hatchback, last year and may reach 40,000 by 2005 by adding a convertible this year, Jack Pitney, head of Mini's U.S. unit, said.

Mini sells because Americans don't know it's a hatchback, Purves said. BMW will have a 1-Series U.S. model by 2010 and may be sold in the style of a sedan, coupe and convertible, he said. "The reason there is a question mark about 1-Series is that it takes us back into a size we've been out of. It takes us to a price point we haven't been to in a long time with BMW," Purves said. "Our view is we can."

[mapezzul]

From motoringfile.com on the 1 series 2/04

As many of you know BMW will be releasing the 1 series later this year. In fact today BMW released the first official photos and info about the car. The 1 series will eventually be available in several configuration; a four door hatch, two door hatch, two door coupe and a convertible (the latter two to be named the 2 series). BMW designed the car to slot just above the MINI in both size and price with some key differences; the 1 series will be available only in wheel rear drive configurations and will offer a small inline six (among the many engine choices).

Expect the 1 series to be released late this fall just about everywhere... but the United States. For some reason BMW has determined it's biggest market won't be getting the initial 4 door/hatch configuration. In fact Jack Pitney (head of BMWUSA) recently spoke about the 1 series possibly not coming to the US at all due to marketing and economical concerns. For one BMW is worried that with the Euro/Dollar exchange being what it currently is the 1 series won't be able to be priced well enough below the US 3 series to justify it's existence here. How quickly BMW seems to forget the new small premium market they've just invented with the MINI.

Why would BMW not to bring the hatchback models to the US? It is assumed that this will be the biggest selling configurations around the world. Yet somehow BMW doesn't believe the US market sales can sustain the investment to bring them over. This fear would seem a bit misplaced considering how successful the MINI has been in the US. The MINI has gone against all rational thinking in terms of the US automotive market and been a huge success for BMW. MINI has proven that there is a growing small premium car market in the US - despite what had been assumed before hand. Now why would BMW decide to not push the envelope and release the full 1 series range here? Dilution of the brand? I'd say the X5 has done more to dilute the brand than a small sporty BMW hatch would. In fact the 1 series is closer to the soul of past BMWs than some of what's in showrooms now. Further with the 1 series BMW wouldn't have to create an entirely new brand and dealer network. Because of this costs could be substantially lower for dealers and BMWUSA than with the MINI's introduction in the US two years ago.

[fredtoo]

If the 323 comes to America, will the people who de-dadged their 325's put the badge back on?

[icedragon]

Oh, I'd like a 323i. It'd be a bit more affordable, especially when u fill it up (rising gas prices).

[stressdoc]

Purves and Pitney are smart. I hope they have the option available to bring in the diesels rather than the 323. The 330 and 325 already get excellent gas mileage, and the 323 could only be marginally better. Contrast that with the difference btw the 325/330i (25 mpg) and the 320d/330d (40+ mpg). BMW would make a market and dominate it for a long time if they have the guts to invest in luxury diesels. Got to be tough to convince a politician to sponsor a bill that would create the same tax incentives for diesels as for hybrids, unless GM or Ford have got some models they could market. What are they selling in Euro that might make a go here in the USA?

[icedragon]

Originally Posted by StewtheBassman

My sales guy said the 323 IS coming to Canada, details to follow.

Please keep us Canadians informed of any news. Thanks!

[icedragon]

I sure hope the Canadian 323i will have body-coloured door handles, cause flat black handles look nasty.