[jblackwell]

OK, so the title is "a bit misleading" as the car is my friend's E90 M3 with an ESS tuning supercharger kit.

Here are the vitals and VBOX read outs.

Setup

ESS Tuning VT2-575 S/C Kit
ESS Tuning Stage 2 DCT Software
DINAN Racing Mid-Pipe
DINAN Exhaust
DINAN 3.62 Diff
20" Wheels
PS2 Tires
295/25 Rear Tires
91 Octane
Outside Temp 72 Degrees
DCT Mode S6 used





See here for the whole story.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=352132

[Prince ///M]

Still way slower (+0.3s) than Shiv's car in the 60-100...

Whp of this m3?

P.S.

[uhcoug2011]

However, isn't the user showing 60-130 times not 60-100?

[jblackwell]

I've been in this car, it's spinning at 60 MPH.

I'm fairly certain this car would walk Shiv's car from a roll. You might also note the altitude that this was tested at (1620') and the fact that he's running 91 octane with no methanol or other octane additive on conservative boost.

535 RWHP

P.S.

[Prince ///M]

I totally agree with you

P.S. The 60-100 can be easily read from the table...

[Boost Gomez]

It's a shame that the M3 has to be supercharged to achieve those kinds of 60-130 times. I know of one NA car with a few bolt-on mods that does better than that 8.56 second time.

[gian335]

thats quick car man

Originally Posted by Boost Gomez

It's a shame that the M3 has to be supercharged to achieve those kinds of 60-130 times. I know of one NA car with a few bolt-on mods that does better than that 8.56 second time.

ouch

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by Prince ///M

Still way slower (+0.3s) than Shiv's car in the 60-100...

Whp of this m3?

P.S.

Getting below 4 seconds is flying. Just got the April 2010 C/D magazine today. Below 4 seconds would get you a time faster than the ZR1 tested (4.2 seconds). The 911TT managed 3.9 seconds. Man, that 2010 911TT is smoking. 0-60 in 2.9 seconds, 128mph in the qtr mile (tied with the ZR1), but .50 seconds quicker! So how is it the ZR1 makes 138 more horsepower than the Porsche, weighs 200 lbs less, and still doesn't dominate the straight line. I have said the same thing before. 130 more horsepower than a Z06, and yet the ZR1 only traps 4mph faster? Doesn't calculate at all.
FYI: This morning my best 60-100 was 4.2 seconds.


--------------------------LEFT: ZR1 times--------------Right: 911 TT times

[Prince ///M]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

Getting below 4 seconds is flying. Just got the April 2010 C/D magazine today. Below 4 seconds would get you a time faster than the ZR1 tested (4.2 seconds). The 911TT managed 3.9 seconds. Man, that 2010 911TT is smoking. 0-60 in 2.9 seconds, 128mph in the qtr mile (tied with the ZR1), but .50 seconds quicker! So how is it the ZR1 makes 138 more horsepower than the Porsche, weighs 200 lbs less, and still doesn't dominate the straight line. I have said the same thing before. 130 more horsepower than a Z06, and yet the ZR1 only traps 4mph faster? Doesn't calculate at all.
FYI: This morning my best 60-100 was 4.2s

The C/D figures you posted are quite strange IMHO.

0-110 times for example are obviously wrong (above 16s...).

BTW no surpise that the 911tt is faster in stand still acceleration. More weight on the rear, all wheel drive and (I think) double clutch automatic transmission.

[Vince@ V K Motorwerks]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

Getting below 4 seconds is flying. Just got the April 2010 C/D magazine today. Below 4 seconds would get you a time faster than the ZR1 tested (4.2 seconds). The 911TT managed 3.9 seconds. Man, that 2010 911TT is smoking. 0-60 in 2.9 seconds, 128mph in the qtr mile (tied with the ZR1), but .50 seconds quicker! So how is it the ZR1 makes 138 more horsepower than the Porsche, weighs 200 lbs less, and still doesn't dominate the straight line. I have said the same thing before. 130 more horsepower than a Z06, and yet the ZR1 only traps 4mph faster? Doesn't calculate at all.
FYI: This morning my best 60-100 was 4.2 seconds.
--------------------------LEFT: ZR1 times--------------Right: 911 TT times

No offense Hotrod but the testing method you are using is not correct since you are using a 0-60mph number and a 0-100 number and simply subtracting the two. You are forgetting that traction, gear ratio, and shifting plays a large roll in 0-XXX numbers. Of course a AWD car with marginally less horse power and a better transmission+launch control will have a better ET. The PDK transmission of the Porshe is being held up as one of the best transmissions on the planet that plays a huge part in that 2.9 sec 0-60 and 0-100 times. This is why I'm saying a 60-130 or 0-186mph test is the best indicator of true power. Zr1s usually get a 60-130mph of 6.9-7.5 seconds depending on the driver and this article that you are using is also showing one of the lowest trap speeds for the ZR1 that I have seen most mags have it at 130 to 133mph. I'm not trying to hate on the 335i but having a car with 430-450whp against a car that is way lighter with numbers as high as 570whp and saying your car is just as fast doesn't make much sense.

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by Prince ///M

The C/D figures you posted are quite strange IMHO.

0-110 times for example are obviously wrong (above 16s...).

BTW no surpise that the 911tt is faster in stand still acceleration. More weight on the rear, all wheel drive and (I think) double clutch automatic transmission.

I have seen ZR1 tests below 128mph in all the major magazine comparos, but rarely above 130mph.

Yeah they probably meant 8.x seconds 0-110.

If the tests numbers are all derived from one run, there is absolutely nothing faulty with subtracting the differences between the MPH splits. The magazines don't test 0-30. Then test 0-60. Then stop, and test 0-100, etc. They are from one run. And if it takes x amount of time to hit 60, and y amount of time to hit 100mph. Then y-x would be an accurate 60-100mph time. Yes, you can optimize your 60-100 with a earlier/later shift etc, but you get my point.

What is interesting is the between 60-100mph, the Porsche widens the gap. So the 2010 Porsche Turbo will walk the regular Z06??

[Prince ///M]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

Yeah they probably meant 8.x seconds 0-110.

What is interesting is the between 60-100mph, the Porsche widens the gap. So the 2010 Porsche Turbo will walk the regular Z06??

I agree with Vince: the ZR1 of your post is not a good reference

A Z06 has the same (claimed) power of the 911 but traction, torque delivery and transmission can not be compared at all. No surprise from my point of view if the Vette is quite slower overall.

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by Prince ///M

I agree with Vince: the ZR1 of your post is not a good reference

A Z06 has the same (claimed) power of the 911 but traction, torque delivery and transmission can not be compared at all. No surprise from my point of view if the Vette is quite slower overall.

Fair enough...then lets compare it to a more similar car. How about other Corvettes (Same platform).

But first, back to my original comparison. A Z06 vs 911TT on paper would be the better comparison. But this magazine test is of the ZR1 vs the 911TT. On paper with 138 less HP, you would think the Porsche would be thoroughly walked. Especially 60-100mph. And since when do you add 133hp to a similar car (ZR1 vs Z06) and only gain 4mph?

The Ferrari 599B has 27 less HP, weighs 500lbs MORE, and runs neck and neck with the ZR1.

Lets try a diffent publication than Car and Driver,

Motortrend lists the Grandsport at 12.4 @ 116.5mph (reference mph)
Motortrend lists the Z06 at 11.7 @ 123.7mph (+69hp: +7.2mph
Motortrend lists the ZR1 at 11.4 @ 125.5mph (+133hp:+1.8mph!!)

Does anyone else see something wrong with this? Even if the ZR1 does trap at 130mph, still doesn't add up.

[hotrod182]

Also, I ran my 60-130 time using JB3 2.0 this time around. 9.10 seconds, just waiting to get it verified by the moderator on 6Speedonline. These were back to back runs with no cool down. So I fully expect to better that time. But you can already see I am nipping at the heels of the 8.95 second E92 SC M3 listed. How anyone can get a sub 4 second run on a 335i still baffles me. Even on this run, my 60-100 was over 4 seconds. (4.10 sec)

Seriously, to even run close to the 8's on stock turbos shows how impressive our 335i BMWs are!


60 -130 mph (96.5-209.2 kph):
Time – Username / Car / NA-TC-SC / # of shifts

5.61 - RaceMX-M3 / E46 M3 / TC / 1 shift
6.07 - M&M / E30 325is / TC / 1 shift
6.80 - TaZaM3 / E46 M3/ TC / 1 shift
6.86 - ST06M3 / E46 M3 / TC / 1 shift
7.86 - Maros / E46 M3 / SC / 1 shift
8.56 - biglare / E90 M3 DCT / SC / 2 shifts
8.59 – Dr Jitsu / E46 M3 / SC / 1 shift
8.67 - DLSJ5 / E46 M3 / SC / 2 shifts
8.95 - sammyrusso / E92 M3 DCT / SC / 3 shifts
9.08 - hiboostingm3 / E36 M3 / TC / 2 shifts
9.10 - Hotrod182 / 335i Coupe / 2 shifts
9.66 - Fanatic7 / E46 M3 / SC / 2 shifts
9.87 - Mspired / E46 M3 / SC / 1 shift
10.3 - Stock M6 / 2 shifts
10.4 - RaceMX-M3 / Stock E60 M5 / 2 shifts
10.5 - fivaxis / E36 M3 / TC / 2 shifts
10.8 - DLSJ5 / E92 M3 DCT/ Bolt-Ons
11.0 - slcook54 / E36 M3 / TC / 3 shifts
11.2 - M&M / Chipped 335i / 1 shift
12.9 - 05SCM3 / E46 M3 / SC / 2 shifts
12.9 - Stock E92 M3 Coupe
13.7 - IDZ21 / Stock E46 M3 (freak car) / 1 shift
14.3 - hiboostingm3 / Stock E39 M5 / 1 shift


Lets see some other 335i 60-130 vbox times posted!!

[Vince@ V K Motorwerks]

I agree that the 335i is a very impressive platform. However, I have a race being set up against a zr1 once the weather warms up with my 911 turbo. I am trapping in the 130 range and doing 60-100 in 3.2-3.4 sec. However I have seen him race a Z06 last fall and seen that from 0-125ish the two were pretty close but after that the zr1 started pulling pretty hard. My main point was that compairing the two cars have alot of factors that may give the 911 an unfair advantage when going from the dig. My second point was that I had a hard time seeing any stock turbo 335i keeping up with a zr1.

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by Vince@ V K Motorwerks

I agree that the 335i is a very impressive platform. However, I have a race being set up against a zr1 once the weather warms up with my 911 turbo. I am trapping in the 130 range and doing 60-100 in 3.2-3.4 sec. However I have seen him race a Z06 last fall and seen that from 0-125ish the two were pretty close but after that the zr1 started pulling pretty hard. My main point was that compairing the two cars have alot of factors that may give the 911 an unfair advantage when going from the dig. My second point was that I had a hard time seeing any stock turbo 335i keeping up with a zr1.

Yes I agree, you are not going to run side by side with a car that traps high 120s when you are low 120's. A couple mph trap diff, and its anybody's race. What is amazing in the above test is you would think with the AWD and trans, perhaps the 911 would be quicker, but not faster in the 1/4 mile. However in this test they both shared the same 128mph traps. I am more of a believer in the 60-130mph and qtr traps as being a true indicator of a cars acceleration performance. There are guys that can hit 11's running 114mph, and guys like me that barely hit 11's running 124mph. But I would never trade my trap speed for the other quys qtr mile quickness (60' launch). The Porsches are very impressive, especially modded ones!

The thing about the 335i, is originally people thought they were merely launch queens with no upper speed power. People are clearly seeing they can achieve some pretty respectable upper speed mph too!

[Vince@ V K Motorwerks]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

Yes I agree, you are not going to run side by side with a car that traps high 120s when you are low 120's. A couple mph trap diff, and its anybody's race. What is amazing in the above test is you would think with the AWD and trans, perhaps the 911 would be quicker, but not faster in the 1/4 mile. However in this test they both shared the same 128mph traps. I am more of a believer in the 60-130mph and qtr traps as being a true indicator of a cars acceleration performance. There are guys that can hit 11's running 114mph, and guys like me that barely hit 11's running 124mph. But I would never trade my trap speed for the other quys qtr mile quickness (60' launch). The Porsches are very impressive, especially modded ones!

The thing about the 335i, is originally people thought they were merely launch queens with no upper speed power. People are clearly seeing they can achieve some pretty respectable upper speed mph too!

I totally agree, I remember when I had my first 335i in 2007 and remember people making fun of it saying that if I wanted a sports car I should have just bought one, those people today don't seem to have much to say about the 335i these days.

[Bluechipper]

Sticky's Gintani SC M3 is going to murder this time. He is running way more boost and water/meth. Still on stock internals.

Better yet, there is a Gintani SC M3 being built with upgraded interals that will run with HPF stage 3+ e46 M3's.

More to come....

[Sniz]

Originally Posted by Bluechipper

Sticky's Gintani SC M3 is going to murder this time. He is running way more boost and water/meth. Still on stock internals.

Better yet, there is a Gintani SC M3 being built with upgraded interals that will run with HPF stage 3+ e46 M3's.

More to come....

I HIGHLY doubt its going to run with a e46 M3 w full stage III mods running race plus meth. Share some more details and I'll start to believe you. a Stage II hpf trapped 139mph, and thats at least 300whp down (or a tuned n54 if you will) on the big hp HPF cars.

Thanks to Hotrod for posting this.....see the guy on top? Thats a HPF stage II car........

5.61 - RaceMX-M3 / E46 M3 / TC / 1 shift
6.07 - M&M / E30 325is / TC / 1 shift
6.80 - TaZaM3 / E46 M3/ TC / 1 shift
6.86 - ST06M3 / E46 M3 / TC / 1 shift
7.86 - Maros / E46 M3 / SC / 1 shift
8.56 - biglare / E90 M3 DCT / SC / 2 shifts
8.59 – Dr Jitsu / E46 M3 / SC / 1 shift
8.67 - DLSJ5 / E46 M3 / SC / 2 shifts
8.95 - sammyrusso / E92 M3 DCT / SC / 3 shifts
9.08 - hiboostingm3 / E36 M3 / TC / 2 shifts
9.10 - hotrod182 / 335i Coupe / 2 shifts
9.66 - Fanatic7 / E46 M3 / SC / 2 shifts
9.87 - Mspired / E46 M3 / SC / 1 shift
10.3 - Stock M6 / 2 shifts
10.4 - RaceMX-M3 / Stock E60 M5 / 2 shifts
10.5 - fivaxis / E36 M3 / TC / 2 shifts
10.8 - DLSJ5 / E92 M3 DCT/ Bolt-Ons
11.0 - slcook54 / E36 M3 / TC / 3 shifts
11.2 - M&M / Chipped 335i / 1 shift
12.9 - 05SCM3 / E46 M3 / SC / 2 shifts
12.9 - Stock E92 M3 Coupe
13.7 - IDZ21 / Stock E46 M3 (freak car) / 1 shift
14.3 - hiboostingm3 / Stock E39 M5 / 1 shift

Originally Posted by hotrod182

Fair enough...then lets compare it to a more similar car. How about other Corvettes (Same platform).

But first, back to my original comparison. A Z06 vs 911TT on paper would be the better comparison. But this magazine test is of the ZR1 vs the 911TT. On paper with 138 less HP, you would think the Porsche would be thoroughly walked. Especially 60-100mph. And since when do you add 133hp to a similar car (ZR1 vs Z06) and only gain 4mph?

The Ferrari 599B has 27 less HP, weighs 500lbs MORE, and runs neck and neck with the ZR1.

Lets try a diffent publication than Car and Driver,

Motortrend lists the Grandsport at 12.4 @ 116.5mph (reference mph)
Motortrend lists the Z06 at 11.7 @ 123.7mph (+69hp: +7.2mph
Motortrend lists the ZR1 at 11.4 @ 125.5mph (+133hp:+1.8mph!!)

Does anyone else see something wrong with this? Even if the ZR1 does trap at 130mph, still doesn't add up.

Hotrod, its painfully obvious those magazine times are slow, not sure how you dont see this. I know you drive auto's but i'm sure you've at least driven a manual tranny high HP car right? It takes serious skill to get the most out of the car, its not a point and shoot exercise like an auto 335.

Multiple Zr1's have trapped over 132mph stock and are hitting 10.7's BONE STOCK ON STOCK TIRES.

yeah the zr1's are slow........

Jamie's Zr1 (STOCK) : http://www.dragtimes.com/Chevrolet-C...lip-19701.html
Another (STOCK): http://www.dragtimes.com/Chevrolet-C...lip-20097.html

Jamie's video
this is how you drive man....he's a machine.

modded w stock S/C and internals: http://www.dragtimes.com/Chevrolet-C...lip-20041.html

plain and simple, these mags cant drive these cars to their full potential. Not even close.


and for another data point for you, I know you like data.

Here is Jamie's Z06 BONE STOCK running 10.8x at 129mph: http://www.dragtimes.com/Chevrolet-C...lip-14084.html

put the right driver in a Z06 or a ZR1 and it will embarass a lot of cars.

[SLV335I]

Originally Posted by Sniz

I HIGHLY doubt its going to run with a e46 M3 w full stage III mods running race plus meth. Share some more details and I'll start to believe you. a Stage II hpf trapped 139mph, and thats at least 300whp down (or a tuned n54 if you will) on the big hp HPF cars.





Hotrod, its painfully obvious those magazine times are slow, not sure how you dont see this. I know you drive auto's but i'm sure you've at least driven a manual tranny high HP car right? It takes serious skill to get the most out of the car, its not a point and shoot exercise like an auto 335.

Multiple Zr1's have trapped over 132mph stock and are hitting 10.7's BONE STOCK ON STOCK TIRES.

yeah the zr1's are slow........

Jamie's Zr1 (STOCK) : http://www.dragtimes.com/Chevrolet-C...lip-19701.html
Another (STOCK): http://www.dragtimes.com/Chevrolet-C...lip-20097.html

Jamie's video
this is how you drive man....he's a machine.

modded w stock S/C and internals: http://www.dragtimes.com/Chevrolet-C...lip-20041.html

plain and simple, these mags cant drive these cars to their full potential. Not even close.


and for another data point for you, I know you like data.

Here is Jamie's Z06 BONE STOCK running 10.8x at 129mph: http://www.dragtimes.com/Chevrolet-C...lip-14084.html

put the right driver in a Z06 or a ZR1 and it will embarass a lot of cars.

Sniz, Don't waste your time. Hotrod will always post the mag times and not look at the real world results of the ZR1. It's just not an impressive car to him. Everyone has their opinion. It's also how much faster the ZR1 is on road course. That's what it was built for.

[Sniz]

Originally Posted by SLV335I

Sniz, Don't waste your time. Hotrod will always post the mag times and not look at the real world results of the ZR1. It's just not an impressive car to him. Everyone has their opinion. It's also how much faster the ZR1 is on road course. That's what it was built for.

well hopefully he'll open his eyes. I at least tried to help him see some real world examples. the magazines are about as exact and reliable as a weatherman.

The Zr1 kills on a real race course, as does Porsche's no doubt.

[Bluechipper]

Originally Posted by Sniz

I HIGHLY doubt its going to run with a e46 M3 w full stage III mods running race plus meth. Share some more details and I'll start to believe you. a Stage II hpf trapped 139mph, and thats at least 300whp down (or a tuned n54 if you will) on the big hp HPF cars.

That is stage 2.5 on race gas plus meth, a true beast. Trust me I am very familar with what HPF cars are capable of. Car is still under the knife. Sticky's stock internal SC will be on dyno soon and running some 60-130 times. It is still very early for e9x FI scene. ESS kits are just off the shelf kits, nothing custom.