[bimmernoob]

I got about 31K-miles on my e90 and I thinking about time to change the tranny fluid, plus many suggest that could help with the notchiness of the shifts.

I will probably go with the Redline D4ATF as it is recommended by most (as well as the Old School Maintenance paper from the BMW CCA). My question is that with a drain and fill (2 qts), ultimately I will be mixing the oem fluids with the redline ones. I am guessing that this is not a problem, but just want to make sure.

Also, I don't have all the tools to lift up all 4 sides of my car so I'll probably take it to an local indi that specializes in bimmers to do this. One place quoted ~$75 labor... which seems high, but they are a very reputable shop. So I want to check to see if that's a reasonable market rate.

Thanks!

[samchoi604]

I wouldn't recommend mixing different fluids for transmission oil, unless you plan to do a complete drain and fill (10 qts). We don't know whether or not Redline D4ATF has even similar viscostiy at OEM.

Edit: just realized this is for manual tranny.. in which case I have no experience over and redline might work.

[rambalu80]

Originally Posted by bimmernoob

I got about 31K-miles on my e90 and I thinking about time to change the tranny fluid, plus many suggest that could help with the notchiness of the shifts.

I will probably go with the Redline D4ATF as it is recommended by most (as well as the Old School Maintenance paper from the BMW CCA). My question is that with a drain and fill (2 qts), ultimately I will be mixing the oem fluids with the redline ones. I am guessing that this is not a problem, but just want to make sure.

Also, I don't have all the tools to lift up all 4 sides of my car so I'll probably take it to an local indi that specializes in bimmers to do this. One place quoted ~$75 labor... which seems high, but they are a very reputable shop. So I want to check to see if that's a reasonable market rate.

Thanks!

I think $75.00 is a pretty good price compared to $100+ that I have been quoted by the Houston area independent BMW shops.

As far as the mixing, I think it will be bare minimal to even make a difference on your drain and fill. Ultimately, I think you'd have at least 90% plus of the new oil, i.e., Redline D4ATF in your case.

[Healey3000]

Hi,

The labor rate sounds okay to me for a manual trans. fluid change. By the time you get the car on the hoist, open the plugs, allow the fluid to drain and refill, you're in the 30-45 minute range.

I doubt that mixing of fluids will be a problem. If the gearbox is warmed up you will get almost all of the old fluid out.

Regards,
Adnan

[742]

Bavarian Auto has the OEM fluid under PN 83 22 7 533 818

[08-335i]

i will only go with oem ,because the other one my shift smooth in summer and in winter it my be hard to shift because of temperature difference

[bimmernoob]

Thanks for all the replies!
From my research on this forum and on line many seem to prefer Redline over the oem oil, so I am a bit surprised to hear the recommendation to stick to oem... I guess I'll need to do a bit more thinking before actually taking it in.

[AlanAZ]

In my experience Redline and Royal Purple are better than OEM in terms of reducing notchiness, paticularly when the transmission is cold. I'm currently running RP, but next time I'll run RL again.

The drain plug is in the very bottom of the transmission, so you'll get 95% + of the old oil out, I suggest you put a new drain plug in (Bentley manual recommends it too), they're aluminium and can deform, the fill plug can be reused (you don't risk losing your oil if that one leaks or fails), they're about $8 from Tischer. And 30K is a good optimum change point for this oil.

UPDATE: I've swapped out the Synchromax. The great shifting it provided only lasted a few months, then was about the same as the factory fluid w/60K miles on it.

I put in Redline D4 ATF for use in the Phoenix extremely hot climate. According to Redline tech support, D6 ATF is closest viscosity to the factory fluid and is recommended, espec. in colder climates (D6 is about 10% thinner than D4, so not much difference -- Synchromax is a heavier viscosity than even the D4.)

[bimmernoob]

Originally Posted by AlanAZ

In my experience Redline and Royal Purple are better than OEM in terms of reducing notchiness, paticularly when the transmission is cold. I'm currently running RP, but next time I'll run RL again.

The drain plug is in the very bottom of the transmission, so you'll get 95% + of the old oil out, I suggest you put a new drain plug in (Bentley manual recommends it too), they're aluminium and can deform, the fill plug can be reused (you don't risk losing your oil if that one leaks or fails), they're about $8 from Tischer. And 30K is a good optimum change point for this oil.

Thanks for the confirmation and tip with the drain plug. Do you by any chance know the part number? Thanks!

[BKV122]

Would i be able to use the Redline D4ATF in my Xi MT?

[ManyMoonsAgo]

Originally Posted by BKV122

Would i be able to use the Redline D4ATF in my Xi MT?

It looks like the Xi takes D6ATF according to BimmerWorld (link - bottom of page).

Also, on RedLine's website, they talk about the 2006 Xi using D6ATF as well (link - after Motor Oil)

[rambalu80]

Originally Posted by bimmernoob

Thanks for all the replies!
From my research on this forum and on line many seem to prefer Redline over the oem oil, so I am a bit surprised to hear the recommendation to stick to oem... I guess I'll need to do a bit more thinking before actually taking it in.

I assume you're warranty is up. If it is, then you can use Redline or Royal Purple. If not, I'd suggest sticking with OEM and it would be better to get it done at the stealership and yes, they will charge you an arm and a leg!

[BKV122]

Originally Posted by ManyMoonsAgo

It looks like the Xi takes D6ATF according to BimmerWorld (link - bottom of page).

Also, on RedLine's website, they talk about the 2006 Xi using D6ATF as well (link - after Motor Oil)

Thanks

[AlanAZ]

Do you by any chance know the part number?

You need to go to Realoem, input your build date and VIN to find the correct part number for your car. I have a 325, you a 330.

[ManyMoonsAgo]

Originally Posted by rambalu80

I assume you're warranty is up. If it is, then you can use Redline or Royal Purple. If not, I'd suggest sticking with OEM and it would be better to get it done at the stealership and yes, they will charge you an arm and a leg!

I understand what you are saying. It is ridiculous that BMW is so stubborn about this topic however. Stubborn in regard to fluid-life, stubborn in regard to cost-to-replace, stubborn to not listen to common sense and empirical evidence.

First, the notion of a lifetime-fill on manual transmission fluid begs the question to define 'lifetime'. Four years, ten years, where is the lifetime line drawn.

Second, cost to replace. I have heard some obscene estimates quoted by dealerships (greater than $500 type numbers). Granted, when you go to the dealership, it will/should be more expensive. Dealerships have to maintain massive infrastructures in terms of equipment and HR-related training and processes. The trade-off to this higher cost is the work should be performed perfectly and cleanly. Despite all this, replacing the manual transmission oil is at most a one-hour job - drive the car onto the lift, lift the car, remove plastic under-body panel, remove transmission fill-plug, remove transmission drain-plug, drain fluid, replace drain-plug, pump 2-quarts of new fluid in, replace fill-plug, replace plastic under-body panel, lower car, pull car off lift.

Two quarts of a quality fluid cost at most $25 retail. The only other potential part required is a new fill/drain plug if your old one is not sealing properly (not a bad idea to replace regardless). A new plug is $15 retail (about half that from Tischer). So at most we are talking a $200 job including a $150/hr labor rate.

Next is the stigma using something like Red Line or Royal Purple. I can't speak for RP, but Red Line is one of, if not the most, respected transmission lubricants on the planet. Across the spectrum of cars, Red Line MTL and D4ATF have legions of loyal and satisfied customers. Word-of-mouth aside, there is plenty of empirical evidence collected over the years concerning these lubricants.

So if you put Red Line in your transmission, your transmission warranty is voided. So be it. Though possible, a failure in your manual transmission due to the type of lubrication used (assuming you have the correct type fluid) is remote. Plus, any wear-and-tear item in there is not covered by the warranty anyway.

Personally, I would rather drain and replace every two years than ride on factory fluid for four years only to suffer a malfunction in later years that was caused by riding on the factory oil for so long.

I could go on and on. The coolant 'lifetime' fill is the same thing; no worries on EVER swapping out your engine coolant, it is good for life. Utterly ridiculous. 15,000 mile oil change intervals in a motor that has a nominal operating oil temperature of 240-deg F. Utterly ridiculous. The lifetime rear-differential fluid is perhaps the easiest of the lifetime fluid pills to swallow, but even still, the idea is utterly ridiculous.

I am not sure of the percentage, but I thought I read that the majority of BMWs sold in the United States are leased. Because of this, I have to believe that lifetime to BMW means six years - 4 for new vehicle warranty and 2 for the Certified Pre-Owned warranty. After that - bueno suerte hombre.

If I were in the market for a used BMW that I intended to keep for 8, 9, 10 years, the previous owner would have to prove to me that they did not adhere to BMW's maintenance program but EXCEEDED it in almost every regard.

Rant over. Sorry for the

[bimmernoob]

Originally Posted by AlanAZ

You need to go to Realoem, input your build date and VIN to find the correct part number for your car. I have a 325, you a 330.

cool! thanks for the tip. i just look it up and i think it's part 6 in the diagram, yes? thanks again!

[bimmernoob]

Originally Posted by ManyMoonsAgo

I understand what you are saying. It is ridiculous that BMW is so stubborn about this topic however. Stubborn in regard to fluid-life, stubborn in regard to cost-to-replace, stubborn to not listen to common sense and empirical evidence.

First, the notion of a lifetime-fill on manual transmission fluid begs the question to define 'lifetime'. Four years, ten years, where is the lifetime line drawn.

Second, cost to replace. I have heard some obscene estimates quoted by dealerships (greater than $500 type numbers). Granted, when you go to the dealership, it will/should be more expensive. Dealerships have to maintain massive infrastructures in terms of equipment and HR-related training and processes. The trade-off to this higher cost is the work should be performed perfectly and cleanly. Despite all this, replacing the manual transmission oil is at most a one-hour job - drive the car onto the lift, lift the car, remove plastic under-body panel, remove transmission fill-plug, remove transmission drain-plug, drain fluid, replace drain-plug, pump 2-quarts of new fluid in, replace fill-plug, replace plastic under-body panel, lower car, pull car off lift.

Two quarts of a quality fluid cost at most $25 retail. The only other potential part required is a new fill/drain plug if your old one is not sealing properly (not a bad idea to replace regardless). A new plug is $15 retail (about half that from Tischer). So at most we are talking a $200 job including a $150/hr labor rate.

Next is the stigma using something like Red Line or Royal Purple. I can't speak for RP, but Red Line is one of, if not the most, respected transmission lubricants on the planet. Across the spectrum of cars, Red Line MTL and D4ATF have legions of loyal and satisfied customers. Word-of-mouth aside, there is plenty of empirical evidence collected over the years concerning these lubricants.

So if you put Red Line in your transmission, your transmission warranty is voided. So be it. Though possible, a failure in your manual transmission due to the type of lubrication used (assuming you have the correct type fluid) is remote. Plus, any wear-and-tear item in there is not covered by the warranty anyway.

Personally, I would rather drain and replace every two years than ride on factory fluid for four years only to suffer a malfunction in later years that was caused by riding on the factory oil for so long.

I could go on and on. The coolant 'lifetime' fill is the same thing; no worries on EVER swapping out your engine coolant, it is good for life. Utterly ridiculous. 15,000 mile oil change intervals in a motor that has a nominal operating oil temperature of 240-deg F. Utterly ridiculous. The lifetime rear-differential fluid is perhaps the easiest of the lifetime fluid pills to swallow, but even still, the idea is utterly ridiculous.

I am not sure of the percentage, but I thought I read that the majority of BMWs sold in the United States are leased. Because of this, I have to believe that lifetime to BMW means six years - 4 for new vehicle warranty and 2 for the Certified Pre-Owned warranty. After that - bueno suerte hombre.

If I were in the market for a used BMW that I intended to keep for 8, 9, 10 years, the previous owner would have to prove to me that they did not adhere to BMW's maintenance program but EXCEEDED it in almost every regard.

Rant over. Sorry for the

all cool! i am with you on this. i think it's just ridiculous that bmw prior to offering the free maintenance called for oil change every 7500 miles, tranny fluid change every 30000 miles, etc, all at the owner's own expense. but all of a sudden when the maintenance is "free" (i don't have that since my is a cpo), the fluids are good for life time?!

[El Cheapo Loco]

I've talked to two mechanics and one told me not to use anything BUT BMW tranny oil. He said he had seen tranny failure caused by incompatible oil.

The other one (BMW indy) flat out refused to replace my tranny oil.

So I don't know what to do anymore.

[rambalu80]

Originally Posted by ManyMoonsAgo

First, the notion of a lifetime-fill on manual transmission fluid begs the question to define 'lifetime'. Four years, ten years, where is the lifetime line drawn.

I contacted BMW NA about their definition of the word "LIFETIME" and I was asked to contact the closest BMW service department. I spoke to the service manager at the dealership where I bought my car as well as get it serviced. He mentioned that BMW's notion is nothing but keep selling as many car's as possible and on an average most car's last about 10 years/100,000 miles and that is what they consider as "lifetime". He also told me that if I planned on keeping my car for 10+ years, then I should go ahead and get all the lifetime fluids replaced at least once every 50,000 miles and that is what I plan to do.

[AlanAZ]

cool! thanks for the tip. i just look it up and i think it's part 6 in the diagram, yes? thanks again!

Yes. There is one in the side (passenger) for the fill, and one in bottom. I bought two to replace both, but ended up replacing just the bottom. I'll use the second one when I next replace the fluid in 30-40K mls.

I've talked to two mechanics and one told me not to use anything BUT BMW tranny oil. He said he had seen tranny failure caused by incompatible oil.

The other one (BMW indy) flat out refused to replace my tranny oil.

Were they talking manual or automatic transmissions? Automatic I can believe.

One place quoted ~$75 labor... which seems high, but they are a very reputable shop.

That's very reasonable. I paid $100 years ago before I started doing it myself.