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      05-01-2010, 05:14 PM   #1
O-cha
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A real Oshit moment

Oh man, I'm glad I didn't go into the inside wall, BTW that is a 80 mph left hander.

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      05-01-2010, 05:18 PM   #2
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I don't know if I'm the first to say it but this video is going to go viral.

Awesome hand work! What was it... 4 saves? Unreal!

...what happened? Too much entry speed? Did getting that close to the beautiful Porsche in front spook you into too missing a brake or turn-in point?
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      05-01-2010, 05:31 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCz04Bimmer View Post
I don't know if I'm the first to say it but this video is going to go viral.

Awesome hand work! What was it... 4 saves? Unreal!

...what happened? Too much entry speed? Did getting that close to the beautiful Porsche in front spook you into too missing a brake or turn-in point?
No, the porsche driver was running slower then me and wouldn't let me pass, he was going REALLY sow into that corner, slower in relative to the rest of the corners I was behind him, so I did not expect it so after I turned in I had to brake hard, pitching weight forward and off the rear wheels, causing the initial oversteer.

The 3 after that were me being a dumbass trying to turn back in before the car was settled, I was really lucky that second one didnt get out of hand. I wouldn't call it "unreal" because the other 3 were caused by my own poor decision making.


And the porsche wasn't beautiful either, it has a really ugly flat black vinyl or paint job thing on its hood.
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      05-01-2010, 05:49 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by O-cha View Post
No, the porsche driver was running slower then me and wouldn't let me pass, he was going REALLY sow into that corner, slower in relative to the rest of the corners I was behind him...
Lame! What run group were you out with? I find it really frustrating when there are cars running inconsistently in the advanced groups but so far this season I haven't come across any particularly terrible offenders. Yet.

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Originally Posted by O-cha View Post
...so I did not expect it so after I turned in I had to brake hard, pitching weight forward and off the rear wheels, causing the initial oversteer.
Ew. That'll do it! Couldn't tell when or how hard you were on the brakes from the video.

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Originally Posted by O-cha View Post
The 3 after that were me being a dumbass trying to turn back in before the car was settled, I was really lucky that second one didnt get out of hand. I wouldn't call it "unreal" because the other 3 were caused by my own poor decision making.
I was wondering why it continued to stay hairy. I actually though you had dropped a tire up until you got back up to speed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by O-cha View Post
And the porsche wasn't beautiful either, it has a really ugly flat black vinyl or paint job thing on its hood.
Oh gross. Compliment retracted.

...this past weekend at Summit Point I had an off track excursion myself. Was passing off line in a turn and wrapping it around and picking up the apex and tracking out. I caught some mud which was actually covering up a more sizable puddle and wet the inside tires so the moment I laid on the throttle I stepped it out. I caught the spin but had traveled quite a distance sideways and ran out of track and started mowing some lawn. This little activity of ours car be scary!
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      05-01-2010, 06:02 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by JCz04Bimmer View Post
Lame! What run group were you out with? I find it really frustrating when there are cars running inconsistently in the advanced groups but so far this season I haven't come across any particularly terrible offenders. Yet.



Ew. That'll do it! Couldn't tell when or how hard you were on the brakes from the video.



I was wondering why it continued to stay hairy. I actually though you had dropped a tire up until you got back up to speed.




Oh gross. Compliment retracted.

...this past weekend at Summit Point I had an off track excursion myself. Was passing off line in a turn and wrapping it around and picking up the apex and tracking out. I caught some mud which was actually covering up a more sizable puddle and wet the inside tires so the moment I laid on the throttle I stepped it out. I caught the spin but had traveled quite a distance sideways and ran out of track and started mowing some lawn. This little activity of ours car be scary!
We have 3 runs groups, noobs, solo and advanced. Advanced group is really only for people with a lot of experience because its a REQUIREMENT to allow passing in corners, which I am NOT comfortable with. The solo group you can give the option to pass in corners, but mot everyone gives point bys on straights.

Most people are very good about it, this guy just had a problem, worst part about it was when he FINALLY gave me the point by he drag raced me down the straight into that same turn, could have got us both Fed.

I got another one too, stupid amg black wouldnt let me pass did same thing drag raced me after finally giving point by, this is what happened (different mcoupe btw, this one died @ bishops bend):

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      05-02-2010, 09:02 AM   #6
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+1 on the save.

Off on a tangent, are you using a GoPro camera in both of those videos? I ask because I have a white balance problem with mine when mounted where yours is, and you can see absolutely nothing through the windshield in my video, even when it's overcast. As best I can tell, the white balance on the SD GoPro is automatic and can't be adjusted manually. Could it be SD vs. HD? Any suggestions or ideas are appreciated.
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      05-02-2010, 03:02 PM   #7
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Good saves in the first video. Looks like you trailed hard off your brakes and caused your back end to swing around on you. But after the initial counter steer, keep your foot constant on the gas instead of completely lifting resulting in the rear end to stay light. The subsequent 3 oversteer events looks to be due to your foot being off the gas, and just coasting through the turn mid-turn with a light rear end. With more practice, you can be much smoother. Ideally, you can smooth out that turn into a zero-counter, neutral steer with smooth imput of throttle and steering.
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      05-02-2010, 07:20 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by colatkitty View Post
Good saves in the first video. Looks like you trailed hard off your brakes and caused your back end to swing around on you. But after the initial counter steer, keep your foot constant on the gas instead of completely lifting resulting in the rear end to stay light. The subsequent 3 oversteer events looks to be due to your foot being off the gas, and just coasting through the turn mid-turn with a light rear end. With more practice, you can be much smoother. Ideally, you can smooth out that turn into a zero-counter, neutral steer with smooth imput of throttle and steering.
I guess no one reads descriptions of videos, I'll just post it to make thing seasier I guess?

"So, porsche in front of me was going through turn one like a slug and I didn't expect it, So I had to brake hard after my turn in shifting weight to the front of car causing the oversteer (back coming out).

This is what you DONT do in this situation by the way, I seriously risked hitting the wall by continuing the turn, I should have corrected the first time and gone straight and hit the brakes rather then try to turn back in after the car settled (causing subsequent oversteers)

Porsche in front of me refused to let me pass for 5 laps by the way, we were going about the same speed (I had green brakes and overinflated tires, he was holding back a little) I was way hot under the helmet, so i was all over the place."
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      05-02-2010, 07:43 PM   #9
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Have another one, this was last session of the day, it was so hot the tires just were not sticking anymore (florida) Plus I was booking it through that corner relative to normal (going about 110 at point of oversteer).


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      05-03-2010, 03:20 AM   #10
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Oshit moments indeed! Glad to see you came out unscathed from both!
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      05-03-2010, 05:50 PM   #11
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      05-03-2010, 06:28 PM   #12
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thats a big tank slapper.
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      05-03-2010, 07:44 PM   #13
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I would need a diaper after the florida track. That's fast understeer there.
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      05-09-2010, 03:27 AM   #14
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looks like i'll stick to the e30 at any hpde's
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      05-18-2010, 12:36 AM   #15
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Impressive driving, I must say. My heart started pounding harder after the second slide, I really thought you were either going to spin or end up in the wall, I could only imagine your pulse and thoughts after that.
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      05-18-2010, 10:48 AM   #16
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Impressive driving, I must say. My heart started pounding harder after the second slide, I really thought you were either going to spin or end up in the wall, I could only imagine your pulse and thoughts after that.
Actually I was very calm, or at least as calm as I was prior to it which is not calm and angry at the guy in front, it doesn't really bug me since I pull that crap all the time on empty streets.
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      05-18-2010, 06:56 PM   #17
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I'm going to stick my nose where it doesn't belong, but that is POOR driving right there. You should ALWAYS look past the car(s) in front of you. The most fundamental and basic principles of driving fast on the track should not be ignored, no matter how skilled you are at catching a spin or how desperate you are at trying to get past a car.

I understand that the video may only be a reflection of a small percentage of the actual driving, but if I were to completely base it on what I see here, while the ability to "save" the car may be applauded, the actual driving is...questionable at best.

Before you get all offended and disagree, I'm just trying to educate the masses here who have had no actual on-track training and think this type of stuff is impressive or how you're suppose to drive on the track. In my not so humble opinion, you were more LUCKY than good.
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      05-18-2010, 09:31 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
I'm going to stick my nose where it doesn't belong, but that is POOR driving right there. You should ALWAYS look past the car(s) in front of you. The most fundamental and basic principles of driving fast on the track should not be ignored, no matter how skilled you are at catching a spin or how desperate you are at trying to get past a car.

I understand that the video may only be a reflection of a small percentage of the actual driving, but if I were to completely base it on what I see here, while the ability to "save" the car may be applauded, the actual driving is...questionable at best.

Before you get all offended and disagree, I'm just trying to educate the masses here who have had no actual on-track training and think this type of stuff is impressive or how you're suppose to drive on the track. In my not so humble opinion, you were more LUCKY than good.
You're right, your nose doesn't belong there. As always you're giving your "input" where it's definitely not appreciated.

You are self admittedly being ignorant by ignoring the majority of the situation. From a 30 second clip you have made a conclusion which is pretty poor one, though maybe not entirely incorrect. (and pretty much all the clips I upload are of "incidents" because that is what is interesting to people)


As I already stated it was in fact poor driving and I should not have let the dweeb get the better of me and let my emotions control my driving instead of pitting. BUT in that instance I had already been following him for several laps, there was NO traffic in front and for some reason he decided to brake down to 10-20mph slower then every lap before. Try to tell me you wouldn't have been caught off guard or wouldn't have been that close or handled it better.

But yes feel free to repeat yourself at how poor and lucky my driving was There's no reason to be offended by someone being clearly ignorant and no reason to disagree with someone making a conclusion off a 30 second clip.
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      05-19-2010, 01:34 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-cha View Post
You're right, your nose doesn't belong there. As always you're giving your "input" where it's definitely not appreciated.

You are self admittedly being ignorant by ignoring the majority of the situation. From a 30 second clip you have made a conclusion which is pretty poor one, though maybe not entirely incorrect. (and pretty much all the clips I upload are of "incidents" because that is what is interesting to people)


As I already stated it was in fact poor driving and I should not have let the dweeb get the better of me and let my emotions control my driving instead of pitting. BUT in that instance I had already been following him for several laps, there was NO traffic in front and for some reason he decided to brake down to 10-20mph slower then every lap before. Try to tell me you wouldn't have been caught off guard or wouldn't have been that close or handled it better.

But yes feel free to repeat yourself at how poor and lucky my driving was There's no reason to be offended by someone being clearly ignorant and no reason to disagree with someone making a conclusion off a 30 second clip.
I knew even before I posted that this would be the response.

Honestly. Read what you posted. Read again what you posted. There's a pattern here. You did so with the Porsche. Again you did it with the AMG. There is an inherent problem here with your driving, and the sooner you see it and admit it the sooner you get to move on and LEARN. If you can't see that the in-ability to control your emotions and letting RED MIST getting to you is a problem and poor driving, you really should take a break from driving for your own sake.

Seriously. I had to bite my tongue when I first saw the video. I only piped up when everyone started jerking you off for your save. I'm only posting because I need to make everyone else aware, that this isn't good driving. And an "impressive" save it was, but it doesn't mask the piss poor driving.

And yes, I can tell you I've been stuck behind slow traffic for laps and laps, and had the car in front of me do some REALLY stupid stuff. I have taken students out in my car in the C and D group, caught up behind an M6 that would just floor it on the straights only to hold me up for another half a lap putzing along, and then proceed to jam the brakes in the middle of a 90 mph sweeper. This stuff isn't new to me. The most fundamental part of driving, looking ahead and past the traffic in front, doesn't automatically disappear when you're stuck behind a slow moving car. Nor should it disappear when you manage to pass a car that's been holding you up for laps. Mistakes like this should not be a regular occurrence, and if it happens more than once in a single day it's a PROBLEM not to be proud of. The fact that you CHOOSE to stay behind a car that refuse to let you pass for 5 laps to a point where it riled you up enough to loose your cool and control of your vehicle, when the PIT is a perfect and logical alternative to pull in and ask for space would indicate to me that the mental aspect of driving, the OTHER most important aspect, needs more training. Heck *I* wouldn't wait for 5 laps. I'd pitted after the first lap for space knowing that I wasn't going to earn a pass.

Here's a little tip. I PERSONALLY know I'm a good driver. But I'm not so good that I'm going to turn away free advice on my driving. If you can't take a little criticism on your mistakes, you really aren't learning. I had a long conversation this past weekend with a guy that drives a Dinan Powered Daytona Prototype and won in Koni Challenge twice last year at Homestead and Iowa, and he told me that even TODAY (the day I was speaking and driving with him) that he's still learning each and every time he goes out to drive. It never stops.

So if you really think you're so good that you can't possibly take my criticism of what I feel and see is a trend of mistakes that needs to be addressed, that's your prerogative. But I do need to make the REST of the community aware, that this type of driving is indeed poor, and that red-mist and following cars in front and making mistakes when they do something stupid is what a rookie driver do and should be avoided.

While we're at it, "poor decision making" is what makes an easily avoidable situation much worse on the track. Poor decision making leads to poor driving. By doing the following:

Quote:
The 3 after that were me being a dumbass trying to turn back in before the car was settled, I was really lucky that second one didnt get out of hand. I wouldn't call it "unreal" because the other 3 were caused by my own poor decision making.
You were compounding on the series of mistakes already made prior to the spin and up to the spin.

Again, if you can't see the forest for the trees, good luck. You are going to need more of it. Put that giant ego of yours aside and you will likely find a better driver underneath it waiting to come out.

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      05-19-2010, 08:08 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
I knew even before I posted that this would be the response.

Honestly. Read what you posted. Read again what you posted. There's a pattern here. You did so with the Porsche. Again you did it with the AMG. There is an inherent problem here with your driving, and the sooner you see it and admit it the sooner you get to move on and LEARN. If you can't see that the in-ability to control your emotions and letting RED MIST getting to you is a problem and poor driving, you really should take a break from driving for your own sake.

Seriously. I had to bite my tongue when I first saw the video. I only piped up when everyone started jerking you off for your save. I'm only posting because I need to make everyone else aware, that this isn't good driving. And an "impressive" save it was, but it doesn't mask the piss poor driving.

And yes, I can tell you I've been stuck behind slow traffic for laps and laps, and had the car in front of me do some REALLY stupid stuff. I have taken students out in my car in the C and D group, caught up behind an M6 that would just floor it on the straights only to hold me up for another half a lap putzing along, and then proceed to jam the brakes in the middle of a 90 mph sweeper. This stuff isn't new to me. The most fundamental part of driving, looking ahead and past the traffic in front, doesn't automatically disappear when you're stuck behind a slow moving car. Nor should it disappear when you manage to pass a car that's been holding you up for laps. Mistakes like this should not be a regular occurrence, and if it happens more than once in a single day it's a PROBLEM not to be proud of.

Here's a little tip. I PERSONALLY know I'm a good driver. But I'm not so good that I'm going to turn away free advice on my driving. If you can't take a little criticism on your mistakes, you really aren't learning. I had a long conversation this past weekend with a guy that drives a Dinan Powered Daytona Prototype and won in Koni Challenge twice last year at Homestead and Iowa, and he told me that even TODAY (the day I was speaking and driving with him) that he's still learning each and every time he goes out to drive. It never stops.

So if you really think you're so good that you can't possibly take my criticism of what I feel and see is a trend of mistakes that needs to be addressed, that's your prerogative. But I do need to make the REST of the community aware, that this type of driving is indeed poor, and that red-mist and following cars in front and making mistakes when they do something stupid is what a rookie driver do and should be avoided.

While we're at it, "poor decision making" is what makes an easily avoidable situation much worse on the track. Poor decision making leads to poor driving. By doing the following:



You were compounding on the series of mistakes already made prior to the spin and up to the spin.

Again, if you can't see the forest for the trees, good luck. You are going to need more of it. Put that giant ego of yours aside and you will likely find a better driver underneath it waiting to come out.
(ending comment first for the need of its punctuation)

I take a lot of peoples advice, those people, however, are the ones that give advice to better the driver, not the people, like you, that give "advise" in order to try and bolster their own ego and put themselves above others.
So, please, just keep your nose in your own business and give your "advise" to someone else.



Hack, I'm sorry, but you're an idiot. You're delusional if you think you are giving "advice" or "constructive criticism". You can't give advise to someone who already knows and even stated EXACTLY the error that lead up to, caused at the point, and prevented immediate correction.

All you're doing is repeating what I already have stated several times in black and white, but adding your own pretentious, talking down, king of the track spin to. Which is your usual in every track thread that gets posted, and trust me it is so, so old.

Hell, I believe I even called myself a dumbass multiple times for continuing to follow him in the first place.

You know, I'm really sorry that people "complimented" the save and your ego just couldn't handle it without trying to take someone down, again if you weren't so ignorant (thats like ignoring FYI) you would have read and seen that I even challeneged these "compliments" as being too kind. But you were so busy trying to get your chance to talk down to someone about track activities that you didn't bother to notice or just ignored it.

I also think it's hilarious that you have determined my driving habits out of 2 clips (which are over a year apart ) from so many track hours.

You want to tell me that people tracking for years have not had red mist at least a couple times? Then you really are delusional, and if not, then you have no business commenting because you know it happens, even to the most experienced and seasoned drivers. You see it several times a race FFS, its not exactly a rare occurrence but you're making it out like anyone who succumbs to it should never be on a track.

You could even say I'm doing a service posting it because it shows the kind of harry situation you can get in if you do.
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      05-20-2010, 01:53 PM   #21
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Again, if you're willing to put your ego aside you may eventually find a good driver underneath it. Really.

I'm not going to continue the pissing match, but what I will do, is tell you what what I picked out of your driving from the two short clips, plus your descriptions of what happened, is SPOT ON. Whether you choose to see it is your own prerogative, like I said. The sooner you realize that, the better off you will be.

What I WILL do though, is explain to you my thought process so that even if you do choose not to see beyond your own irrational hatred of everything I have to say while I continue to stay civil in these so-called one-sided discussions, at least the entire community can potentially benefit from it by learning from YOUR mistakes.

First, let me congratulate you. The ONE THING that saved you from wadding up another car, is the fact that you were looking where you need to go. What we usually teach in class, is that the one thing that will save you in an impending spin, is to continue to look where you need to go. In the series of events that lead to the compounding of mistakes that usually lead to a spin, there is ALWAYS one thing you can do all the way up to the point of the spin to correct it, and how you go about finding that one thing is going to go a very long way in making you a good driver instead of just a fast driver.

HAVING SAID THAT. What you said about the one thing you should do...and this is why I said you're more lucky than skilled...the one single thing that you THINK you did wrong, is the one other thing that went right. If you look at the video again closely, what you did, is you managed to prevent the so-called "pendulum" effect by what you termed, turning back into the turn too early. Had you not done that, and tried to go straight and applied brakes, at that speed, and at the angle of the spin, you would have spun around the other way. Because you WERE looking at where you want to go, you managed to want to turn back into the turn before the 2nd part of the spin, the part where it catches EVERYONE off guard, the counter spin, happened and prevented the full effect of the suspension rebounding from the tires catching from the first half of the spin. Hence every subsequent part of the spin was just simply a repeat of the logic loop until you've slowed down enough to manage the spin more effectively.

So the reason I piped up was the incorrect analysis of your spin, plus the fact that, after 5 laps of being stuck behind a driver you failed to manage to check your emotion and ego. And if you cared to read between the lines, I never said I don't suffer from red mist. All I said, is this stuff happens to me too. But I keep it in check. Even in a situation where I'm stuck behind an M6 that is basically only manage to stay in front of me is the drastic power difference on the straights and the fact that he never bothered to check his rear mirror, I don't let that frustration keep me from the fact that I need to continue to drive my lines and look past the car in front. Red mist gets to ALL OF US, it is a matter of how you manage it that is the difference. The fact that you chose to stay behind him for 5 laps to continue being frustrated by the Porsche bears repeating, that you haven't gotten the mental skills to manage that red mist...And that is a point bear repeating again. Red mist got to you. You need to manage that to be a better driver, period. And by allowing red mist to get to you, you've done a poor job as a driver and that is the simple truth.

As you can see (or not see, judging from your responses), I didn't just come to this conclusion based on a couple of 30 second videos. I came to this conclusion by reading your responses to the questions and the videos. I'm going to ask you to share this thread with people who you DO take advice from, the ones that you do respect enough to listen to, and ask them if ANYTHING I said in this thread is incorrect. Do that for your own sake, not mine.

And if they'd like to pipe in and say "The HACK, you're a f**kin' idiot and you have no idea what you're talking about," that's fine. They're there (potentially), they know you better. I AM just basing my observations on what I see and what I read. But just like your driving I think you're letting your ego and your emotional attachment to your own driving get in your way of actually becoming a better driver, as evident in this thread.
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      05-20-2010, 02:38 PM   #22
O-cha
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Seriously man, who do you think you are? Why are you even continuing to try and shove your "advice" down someone elses throat? You're writing pages after I already told you its unwelcomed. You can try and spin it however you want but your intent is obvious. Again, take it somewhere else.


You keep grasping for something to criticize which is a bit lame. Now that your intentions are revealed you are looking for some way to save face. It's extordinarily obvious that this is what you are doing as well since this "one single thing you think you did wrong that you did right" you didn't even mention in either of your two previous posts, but rather pulled out of thin air.

You can't even tell from videos in that particular situation if there's a risk of counter spin. There's always a risk, but trying to say in a particular situation if it would or wouldn't have happened if X driver didn't do Y thing is idiotic, and I know you know it, you're just trying to come up with SOMETHING now to give "advise" on. Despite the fact it's not something you can REALLY know for sure without being in the car, it IS clear from the video, all you have to do is watch for the roll of the car and you know that the car has unloaded laterally and there's no longer a chance of a "counter spin" assuming the wheel was straightened, which it clearly was and the car is free to be braked down.


So seriously, just leave, you're just embarrassing yourself.
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