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      05-02-2005, 12:43 PM   #1
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Is the E46 faster than the E90?

So before I head out to another round of E90 test drives, I thought I would read some specs, reviews, etc. and get myself ready for some fun. I came across some interesting data that I was wondering if anyone can confirm\deny.

The E46 with the Performance package:
0-60 in 5.6 sec
235 hp
222 lb/ft torque

The E90
0-60 in 6.1 sec
255 hp
220 lb/ft torque

The difference between vehicles is supposedly only 132lbs. Am I missing something?
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      05-02-2005, 02:43 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HumblePie
So before I head out to another round of E90 test drives, I thought I would read some specs, reviews, etc. and get myself ready for some fun. I came across some interesting data that I was wondering if anyone can confirm\deny.

The E46 with the Performance package:
0-60 in 5.6 sec
235 hp
222 lb/ft torque

The E90
0-60 in 6.1 sec
255 hp
220 lb/ft torque

The difference between vehicles is supposedly only 132lbs. Am I missing something?

Its difficult to compare times like that, because more then likely they are from different sources/magazines, done on cars on different days (diff altitutes/temps). Some magazine testers do a dead start, others drop the clutch at 2000rpm, others drop at 3000rpm.. others may use an automatic. Details like that make a huge difference in 0-60 times, thats why I personally never look at those as a judgement of anything. If the article is doing a head to head comparison and they produce numbers, then it could be good to compare the two cars that were tested back to back, otherwise, its just not a good way to compare cars.

In terms of real world performance, the two cars will be very similar off the line, basicly equal, with the E90 getting the advantage as you build speed.
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      05-02-2005, 03:44 PM   #3
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Excellent points. Thanks.
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      05-02-2005, 06:31 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HumblePie
So before I head out to another round of E90 test drives, I thought I would read some specs, reviews, etc. and get myself ready for some fun. I came across some interesting data that I was wondering if anyone can confirm\deny.

The E46 with the Performance package:
0-60 in 5.6 sec
235 hp
222 lb/ft torque

The E90
0-60 in 6.1 sec
255 hp
220 lb/ft torque

The difference between vehicles is supposedly only 132lbs. Am I missing something?
5.6 0-60 for the ZHP performance pkg. was a tested time in a magazine. 6.1 for the new e-90 is a conservative estimate from BMWNA. Motortrend has already ran an E-90 0-60 in 5.6 in a recent test, also the 330i was not a Sport Pkg., which may or may not help the quickness.
All things considered including road conditions,temp., driver, and weather will contribute to quicker times.
For example I've seen E-46 M3's tested anywhere from 4.6 to 6.0 0-60 and all had manual trannys. As above it really depends on all conditions. German vehicles including Porsche and Benz all give conservative ratings on HP and accelertion times, why do think most Japanese cars rate competing vehicles at 10-20% higher HP and yet fail to outperform the lower HP German cars.
I think in the road testing to come you'll see a manual 330i's run 0-60 in the mid 5's consitantly even before there broken in. Also if you look up technical data from BMW you'll find the same estimate on the ZHP, probably in the 6.0 range.
After driving a new 2004 330i with Performance Pkg. and driving a new E-90, I think the new E90 will outrun it EVERY time.
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      05-02-2005, 07:16 PM   #5
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It's all subjective, i would wait till Car and Driver does a comparion test with comparable vehicles under same conditions
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      05-02-2005, 08:37 PM   #6
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Actually, I think it was Car & Driver that ALSO got 5.6 seconds zero to sixty for the new 330i:

"...0 to 60 mph in 5.6 seconds and the standing quarter-mile in 14.3 seconds at 98 mph. Although these figures were recorded on a surface with poor grip, they match the performance of the current-generation 330i with Performance package with its much larger rear tires."

C&D E90 330i Preliminary Test

I think they are a fair match. Hopefully some mag will do a comparo between the two.
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      05-02-2005, 11:02 PM   #7
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So I went back to the dealer again today (twice in fact). I drove both the new E90 330i (fully loaded 6sp) and the E46 330i ZHP (fully loaded minus premium package). I drove the E90 first. Again EXCELLENT ride. Very refined interior. The main power is definitely around 4500-5000 RPM. I can definitely feel more power in that range than in the lower RPMs. The interior is fantastic and is pretty much everything I could ask for (at least in that class of vehicle ).

I then switched out vehicles and tried the E46 ZHP. This car felt faster in many ways. It could be the gear ratio, the short shifter throw, the springy clutch, etc. In any case, I felt that there was more power (even though the E90 has more horses). The interior in this car although nice, seemed dated and tired when compared to the E90. It still would stand great on it's own but the E90 seemed much cleaner and had more appointments like dual climate control, power rear sunshade, iDrive, etc.

If I consider going with the E46, I could save about $6k off of MSRP. The E90 (at least from this dealer) is firmly set at MSRP and I would not be able to pick it up until May 6th.

So now I am stumped. I thought I was going 100% for the E90 but after driving the E46 ZHP, I am not so sure. The '05 was just a bit more fun to drive and felt a bit smaller than the E90. I can probably get away with driving the E90 one more time before I drive the dealer nuts but $6k off is nothing to shy away from either...

Thoughts?

Here is some eye candy for ya...
E46 ZHP (1Mb)

E90 (1.6Mb)

Full size available upon request.
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      05-02-2005, 11:43 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HumblePie
So I went back to the dealer again today (twice in fact). I drove both the new E90 330i (fully loaded 6sp) and the E46 330i ZHP (fully loaded minus premium package). I drove the E90 first. Again EXCELLENT ride. Very refined interior. The main power is definitely around 4500-5000 RPM. I can definitely feel more power in that range than in the lower RPMs. The interior is fantastic and is pretty much everything I could ask for (at least in that class of vehicle ).

I then switched out vehicles and tried the E46 ZHP. This car felt faster in many ways. It could be the gear ratio, the short shifter throw, the springy clutch, etc. In any case, I felt that there was more power (even though the E90 has more horses). The interior in this car although nice, seemed dated and tired when compared to the E90. It still would stand great on it's own but the E90 seemed much cleaner and had more appointments like dual climate control, power rear sunshade, iDrive, etc.

If I consider going with the E46, I could save about $6k off of MSRP. The E90 (at least from this dealer) is firmly set at MSRP and I would not be able to pick it up until May 6th.

So now I am stumped. I thought I was going 100% for the E90 but after driving the E46 ZHP, I am not so sure. The '05 was just a bit more fun to drive and felt a bit smaller than the E90. I can probably get away with driving the E90 one more time before I drive the dealer nuts but $6k off is nothing to shy away from either...




Ahh looks like Bellevue BMW. I was just about to buy that same color combo ZHP last September, until I heard about the E-90, bought a 540i to hold me over. Question, whats $6k off the ZHP? $36-37k? Also from your pictures of the SG 330i, is that a "6 speed auto" your comparing to the 6 speed manual ZHP? I know if your comparing automatics to manuals, you'll feel a loss of power.
Thoughts?

Here is some eye candy for ya...
E46 ZHP (1Mb)

E90 (1.6Mb)

Full size available upon request.
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      05-03-2005, 12:00 AM   #9
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Wow, good eyes. It was Bellevue BMW. The total was closer to $38 and change as the MSRP on the 05 ZHP was $44. Kind of funny is the 05 was more expensive than all but a couple of the 06's on the lot. No wonder that they are anxious to move them...

As for the pictures, i forgot to mention that they are of the 330i auto. I got booted from the 6SP as soon as my test drive was over so that another couple could go for a spin. I'm not sure exactly what options were on that model but since I had the key, I thought I would take the opportunity to snap some shots...
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      05-03-2005, 12:08 AM   #10
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Looks like you're making a tough decision that a lot of people on the forum seems to be trying to decide... whether to spend a bit more to get the new car or save money and get an older (but still great) model. Since both cars are about the same power how will you decide?
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      05-03-2005, 04:44 AM   #11
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German vehicles including Porsche and Benz all give conservative ratings on HP and accelertion times, why do think most Japanese cars rate competing vehicles at 10-20% higher HP and yet fail to outperform the lower HP German cars.

Yeah, I agree... My dad has a Maxima with 250 HP, yet it is still not quick. It makes a lot of neat noises (ear candy), but it is just not as fast as a 325 (E46).
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      05-03-2005, 04:50 AM   #12
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German car mag AutoZeitung tested the 330i E90 6sp manual: 0-100kmh(62mph) in 6.1s
0-200kmh(124,3mph) in 23.8s
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      05-03-2005, 08:51 AM   #13
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I'll wait for Road & Track's test before I draw any conclusions about the E90 being slower than the E46 ZHP, thanks........where they just got zero to sixty of 5.2 for a 545i with Steptronic!
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      05-03-2005, 10:40 AM   #14
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If you like the E90, I'd say go for it. $6K is a good discount, but that difference will quickly fade once the values of the E46's start dropping.

I would bet one reason the E46 felt faster is because BMW has refined the E90 so much. I've heard several reviews on how smooth and quiet the E90 is. That will numb the sensation of speed a bit and you will be deceptively quicker than it feels.

I know it's like that in the E60 and I'm sure it's the same if not more in the E90.
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      05-03-2005, 11:04 AM   #15
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What you guys think about the difference between the 325 and 330? I'm having a hard time deciding which one to go with. I know C & D tested the 330 for 14.3 quarter mile but what about the 325.... I want faster car but if it's not that much faster, then i'd rather save the money and stick with 325....
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      05-03-2005, 11:06 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTS_330
What you guys think about the difference between the 325 and 330? I'm having a hard time deciding which one to go with. I know C & D tested the 330 for 14.3 quarter mile but what about the 325.... I want faster car but if it's not that much faster, then i'd rather save the money and stick with 325....
Go to the dealer and take a test drive in both of them and see for yourself which one suits you better.
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      05-03-2005, 12:09 PM   #17
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You are definitely correct about the refinement. The E90 is much quieter and a bit more isolated than the ZHP. I do love the sound fo the ZHP but ther are SO many new features that are drawing me toward the E90.
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      05-03-2005, 01:16 PM   #18
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If you want the sound. Wait a little while. There will be a ton of aftermarket exhaust options for the E90. And, you might lose a good 150lbs if you don't option out the iDrive. (yes, I've got a thing against having microsoft in my car)
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      05-03-2005, 01:28 PM   #19
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Butt Dyno

Having owned a 6sp zhp for over a year I can tell you that it is fast. I too drove the demo 330i 6sp that all the dealers have. I can't say that the e90 is much faster, but you could tell it had more hp. As stated earlier, I think a scientific test by C&D would tell (they correct times for temp and alt).

I can tell you that the zhp's lower gear ratios give it an advantage even with lower hp, this may be why we can't tell using the old butt dyno.

As far as handeling goes, well the zhp may be tighter with its m3 suspension parts and big wheels (actually the same size as e90 sport package, but the michelin pilots are better). I do think the new 330 handled great, but it wasn't quite as crisp. That does translate into a better ride.

With all this said, we must remember that the zhp is a low production model specifically designed for performace (hence it's true name "performance package" ) they only made like 4500 of them.

By the way, I belive that the Silver demo 330i is equiped with the Premium Pkg, Sport Pkg, 6sp and listed for about $41.2K.

My 2 cents.
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      05-03-2005, 01:52 PM   #20
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Stop the madness!

Car and Driver 2006 330i

Zero to 60 mph: 5.6 sec
Street start, 5-60 mph: 6.0 sec
Standing 1/4-mile: 14.3 sec @98 mph

Car and Driver ZHP E46 330

Zero to 60 mph: 5.6 sec
Street start, 5-60 mph: 6.4 sec
Standing 1/4-mile: 14.3 sec @97 mph

Now, can people please stop arguing this topic? The ZHP was meant to increase the sales of the E46 by giving it more modern performance. It was meant as a stop-gap between the model changes. That doesn't make it a bad car, it's just that that was something BMW could do to make the car move on and handle a little better than the base E46. BMW knew what they had coming in the E90.

Personally, I'll be happy when Dinan starts pumping out the performance parts for the E90. I had them on my Z3, and I'll be happy to have them on my E90 as well. You can do the same with your E46.
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      05-03-2005, 02:20 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HumblePie
So I went back to the dealer again today (twice in fact). I drove both the new E90 330i (fully loaded 6sp) and the E46 330i ZHP (fully loaded minus premium package). I drove the E90 first. Again EXCELLENT ride. Very refined interior. The main power is definitely around 4500-5000 RPM. I can definitely feel more power in that range than in the lower RPMs. The interior is fantastic and is pretty much everything I could ask for (at least in that class of vehicle ).

I then switched out vehicles and tried the E46 ZHP. This car felt faster in many ways. It could be the gear ratio, the short shifter throw, the springy clutch, etc. In any case, I felt that there was more power (even though the E90 has more horses). The interior in this car although nice, seemed dated and tired when compared to the E90. It still would stand great on it's own but the E90 seemed much cleaner and had more appointments like dual climate control, power rear sunshade, iDrive, etc.

If I consider going with the E46, I could save about $6k off of MSRP. The E90 (at least from this dealer) is firmly set at MSRP and I would not be able to pick it up until May 6th.

So now I am stumped. I thought I was going 100% for the E90 but after driving the E46 ZHP, I am not so sure. The '05 was just a bit more fun to drive and felt a bit smaller than the E90. I can probably get away with driving the E90 one more time before I drive the dealer nuts but $6k off is nothing to shy away from either...

Thoughts?

Here is some eye candy for ya...
E46 ZHP (1Mb)

E90 (1.6Mb)

Full size available upon request.

my honest answer... I would suggest getting the E90 330i with sports pacakge, put on a set of H&R Coilovers and call it a day.

The e90 330i has the more modern engine and technology, and you cant really upgrade that in an older car. However, the lack of crispness in the handling can be easily improved through suspension work, so buy the car that car be improved more easily. I did the same with my E46, I put on a set of coilovers, and my car has handled like (or rather better) than an ///M car.

Even the lack of power down low can be fixed with a differential swap. Alot of us E46 owners would swap our differentials for the ones from automatic models since those were geared lower to bring up the performance of an automatic closer to the manuals. Differential swaps are cheap as hell, measured in the mid 100s.. like 500-600 or so.

Coilovers are probably a mod every single owner should do to make a BMW handle like a BMW should, unfortunatly our cars are watered down a little bit for the mass market, but BMW are great because they make it so easy to bring performance back to where it was intended.
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      05-03-2005, 02:47 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slashmatt
Car and Driver 2006 330i

Zero to 60 mph: 5.6 sec
Street start, 5-60 mph: 6.0 sec
Standing 1/4-mile: 14.3 sec @98 mph

Car and Driver ZHP E46 330

Zero to 60 mph: 5.6 sec
Street start, 5-60 mph: 6.4 sec
Standing 1/4-mile: 14.3 sec @97 mph

Now, can people please stop arguing this topic? The ZHP was meant to increase the sales of the E46 by giving it more modern performance. It was meant as a stop-gap between the model changes. That doesn't make it a bad car, it's just that that was something BMW could do to make the car move on and handle a little better than the base E46. BMW knew what they had coming in the E90.

Personally, I'll be happy when Dinan starts pumping out the performance parts for the E90. I had them on my Z3, and I'll be happy to have them on my E90 as well. You can do the same with your E46.
Discussion is healty, isn't that why you are posting on chat forum. You also started the thread with a question, did you think no one would try to answer. I wasn't trying to prove you wrong, I was simple answering your question with my opinion and observations.

I too read C&D, the article was a preview of the e90, not a full test. The article even states the test were not performed under perfect conditions. I will wait for the full test to compare speeds and times. I could also care less if the e90 is faster than my car. It should be!

And for your information the zhp package was not meant as a "stop gap measure" to keep the e46 selling. BMW has never worried about three series sales, they lead their class, not to mention that zhp was only available in the U.S. The zhp package was ment to fill a void for a four door m3 that many customers complained about. Yes they may have also spiked interest in the e46, but that was not the main reason in producing the car.

Last edited by jmvzhp; 05-03-2005 at 03:03 PM..
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