[Autosavant]

Hi there - our writer in Singapore had some seat time in a 523i and in an E250 CGI, and wrote a brief feature comparing the two cars.

Surprisingly, the W212 turned out to be the better driver's car, while the F10 turned out as the better long-distance tourer.

Here's the link: Impressions: F10 523i vs. W212 E250 CGI

An excerpt:

At first I drove the E250 CGI thinking that the BMW would completely trump it in terms of driving dynamics, response, driver enjoyment and even refinement. But the E has shown that is a worthy challenger indeed, and nobody choosing between these two saloons would be disappointed. That said, both cars have their shortcomings which might be resolved in the higher-end models. For instance, the 5-speed gearbox is chucked aside for the 7G-Tronic gearbox in the E350, and the 535i gets a turbocharged 3.0-litre engine; both of which solves the maladies of the smaller models. But that is for another story altogether. As far as this company of the 523i and E250 CGI is concerned, the two cars are pretty evenly matched, with the E showing itself to be a better driver’s car than previously assumed, while the 5 Series wows with its astounding high-speed, long-distance cruising capabilities. This is certainly an unusual result, considering the traditional roles of these two models.

Hope you enjoy.

[bm323]

Quote "The E I tried is the Avantgarde model, which is fitted with sport suspension that lowers the car by 15mm. I thought I would never say this, but the E’s suspension is actually harsher than the one in the BMW, but the plus is that it makes the car feel quite agile. The chassis is tight and stiff, and cornering is a joy in the E. Pity then that the gearbox shifts so slowly, because I always find myself in the wrong gear or off the power band when I need it mid-corner. Nonetheless, the E is, to me, the better driver’s car. Perhaps if the BMW was equipped with the sport-oriented suspension of its own would the result be different."

Again, comparing cars of different specs. Since your reviewer prefers sport suspension, he should have compared a like vehicle ie the F10 with M sport suspension. Alternatively, compare both with the standard suspension. The highlighted conclusion is (inadvertently) misleading.

[Autosavant]

Originally Posted by bm323

Quote "The E I tried is the Avantgarde model, which is fitted with sport suspension that lowers the car by 15mm. I thought I would never say this, but the E’s suspension is actually harsher than the one in the BMW, but the plus is that it makes the car feel quite agile. The chassis is tight and stiff, and cornering is a joy in the E. Pity then that the gearbox shifts so slowly, because I always find myself in the wrong gear or off the power band when I need it mid-corner. Nonetheless, the E is, to me, the better driver’s car. Perhaps if the BMW was equipped with the sport-oriented suspension of its own would the result be different."

Again, comparing cars of different specs. Since your reviewer prefers sport suspension, he should have compared a like vehicle ie the F10 with M sport suspension. Alternatively, compare both with the standard suspension. The highlighted conclusion is (inadvertently) misleading.

I disagree that the conclusion was misleading. In this article, the reviewer was very upfront about the way the two cars were equipped, and in fact highlighted that in the conclusion paragraph that you took issue with.

We're not Motor Trend - we can't just get whatever car we want to review or be picky about how cars we drive are going to be equipped.

I thought the readers of this forum would find driving impressions interesting on two cars not available for sale in the US. I know that I did.

EDIT: I see that you're in Singapore, so the last sentence above would have less relevance to you. But if you can hook my man in Singapore up with a similarly-equipped F10 and W212, we'll be happy to evaluate those cars in a full comparison test.

[akhter]

I find this surprising. I didn't consider the MB but I cross shopped with Audi A5 sportback 2.0t quattro dsg and drove it back to back with a 523i sport auto in sport+ mode and I found the 523i to be smoother in terms of engine and also less floaty in terms of handling. I know that says nothing about the MB but did your writer remember to switch the car to sport mode with gives better engine response and loads up the steering? Since he said he only had 30 min with the car it's not clear if he did.

[bm323]

Originally Posted by Autosavant

I disagree that the conclusion was misleading. In this article, the reviewer was very upfront about the way the two cars were equipped, and in fact highlighted that in the conclusion paragraph that you took issue with.

We're not Motor Trend - we can't just get whatever car we want to review or be picky about how cars we drive are going to be equipped.

I thought the readers of this forum would find driving impressions interesting on two cars not available for sale in the US. I know that I did.

EDIT: I see that you're in Singapore, so the last sentence above would have less relevance to you. But if you can hook my man in Singapore up with a similarly-equipped F10 and W212, we'll be happy to evaluate those cars in a full comparison test.

The conclusion you highlighted in post #1 above is misleading as it did not mention the quoted section in post #2

[Autosavant]

Originally Posted by bm323

The conclusion you highlighted in post #1 above is misleading as it did not mention the quoted section in post #2

I'm not in the business of posting the content elsewhere on the Internet...my job is to publish a quality, insightful website about cars and the car business and drive traffic to it.

As long as you (and others) were intrigued enough by the snippet I put into the first post, then I did my job.

And Google Analytics says that I was successful. Thanks for the traffic, 5post.com!

[tadtaggert]

Translations:

Originally Posted by Autosavant

I'm not in the business of posting the content elsewhere on the Internet...my job is to publish a quality, insightful website about cars and the car business and drive traffic to it.

My web content isn't enough to attract readers, so I have to seed places where I'll generate enough controversy to have them post comments on my site to give the perception of traffic.

Originally Posted by Autosavant

As long as you (and others) were intrigued enough by the snippet I put into the first post, then I did my job.

The world is full of suckers.

Originally Posted by Autosavant

And Google Analytics says that I was successful. Thanks for the traffic, 5post.com!

I believe he is calling us suckers!


Creating a web site is easy, creating original content of a high quality is not, thank you for demonstrating that.

[Soon ExAudi Guy]

+1 to tadtaggert's comments. Well said.

[Autosavant]

Originally Posted by tadtaggert

Translations:



My web content isn't enough to attract readers, so I have to seed places where I'll generate enough controversy to have them post comments on my site to give the perception of traffic.



The world is full of suckers.



I believe he is calling us suckers!


Creating a web site is easy, creating original content of a high quality is not, thank you for demonstrating that.

My writers and I have put literally thousands of hours into Autosavant over the past four years, and thousands of dollars of our own money. And guess what? I have not taken a salary from this site, ever. All revenue goes toward expenses like paying writers, paying hosting fees, subscriptions, events, etc. toward making this a better site.

Posting links to a site's content is a commonly accepted practice in new media and blogging, and an effective way to share a relevant article or review with readers who might otherwise not find it. The review is not controversial and was not intended to generate controversy. It's not troll bait, though clearly I've attracted one - you.

I stand 100% behind the content and quality of my site. There isn't a lot of quantity, but the quality is absolutely there, and manufacturers - such as BMW - recognize that and provide us access to their vehicles for review. If we did a lousy job of reviewing cars, we would not be getting press loaners.

I challenge you to start a site like ours from the ground up and build it into a credible site for automobile news and reviews that gets respect from every major auto manufacturer selling cars in the US and is linked to by the likes of TTAC, Jalopnik, Autoblog, and others.

When I said thanks for the traffic, it was a genuine thanks. This site sent more readers to that review than did any other. I genuinely appreciate that.

Sincerely,
Autosavant

Originally Posted by Soon ExAudi Guy

+1 to tadtaggert's comments. Well said.

What was so well said in his sitting behind a computer screen anonymously and trashing the hard work that a dozen-plus people have put into making a good website?

[bimmernic]

Autosavant, ironically, while I do agree with the rather brief impressions by your writer on the steering and the ride of the F10 523, the headline conclusion could have been more accurately worded thus:

Originally Posted by Autosavant

Surprisingly, the W212 [with the sports suspension] turned out to be the better driver's car, while the F10 [with the standard suspension] turned out as the better long-distance tourer.

A couple of other observations:

1. It is unclear whether your writer tested the 523 Base (17" rims - 225/55 R17 tyres) or 523 Highline (18" rims - 245/45 R18 tyres) version. They ride quite differently.

2. The photos of the F10 are from the 5-series launch party (first day) in Singapore and, in fact, show the 535 variant (not the 523 variant).

[Autosavant]

Originally Posted by bimmernic

Autosavant, ironically, while I do agree with the rather brief impressions by your writer on the steering and the ride of the F10 523, the headline conclusion could have been more accurately worded thus:



A couple of other observations:

1. It is unclear whether your writer tested the 523 Base (17" rims - 225/55 R17 tyres) or 523 Highline (18" rims - 245/45 R18 tyres) version. They ride quite differently.

2. The photos of the F10 are from the 5-series launch party (first day) in Singapore and, in fact, show the 535 variant (not the 523 variant).

Thanks for the comments. I wanted to keep the headline simple - folks can read the full article to get the equipment details, etc. The cars were not driven back-to-back and it is not a formal comparison test.

Anyway, I got this communique from my writer about the cars he drove:

The 5 Series had no sport package, so no Sport mode and definitely no Sport+ mode. I tested the cars as they are specced in the local market, sold with standard options, at similar pricing. At the price of the E250 Avantgarde, you can get the 523i Highline but even that doesn't have the Sport Package. It's an optional extra.

[akhter]

Very good to know that the review 523i car didn't have 8sp sport transmission or dynamic driving control. I have only driven the 523i (HK model) in Sport mode and the steering had a nicer feel to it as then the throttle response.

You should have expected some hate from people here for saying the E fared better than the F10

Personally I didn't even test-drive the E class. Ordered the 528i w/Sport 8sp just based on a 523i test drive. I sat in a E as a passenger for a few hours and didn't like one thing about that car's interior. Ruled out that car on looks alone.

[bimmernic]

Originally Posted by akhter

Very good to know that the review 523i car didn't have 8sp sport transmission or dynamic driving control. I have only driven the 523i (HK model) in Sport mode and the steering had a nicer feel to it as then the throttle response.

You should have expected some hate from people here for saying the E fared better than the F10

Personally I didn't even test-drive the E class. Ordered the 528i w/Sport 8sp just based on a 523i test drive. I sat in a E as a passenger for a few hours and didn't like one thing about that car's interior. Ruled out that car on looks alone.

Even with Normal mode selected on the 2TB transmission, the steering feel is quite different from the standard (non-2TB) steering. Given the small price differential, BMW should just have made it standard. The Sport mode is simply fantastic, but at the expense of fuel consumption!

Pity we don't get the option of the 528 in Singapore. Guess it would have cannibalized the sales of the 535.

[radarguy]

Autosavant tested a Merc with sport suspension vs a standard suspension F10. I don't know if the Merc had sport tires or not. My experience shows that the US E350 with sport suspension, 7-speed transmission and all-weather tires is a competent car equivalent to the standard F10 from a handling perspective and the E350 has better steering feel. The 535i engine and transmission are far superior to the E350 and this makes the 535i a much better driver's car in my opinion. I suspect that the EU E350 engine with direct injection and more HP narrows the difference.

Interestingly, the BMW Ultimate Comparison Drive used an E350 with standard suspension which handles much worse than the standard 535i. Coupled with the crippled US E350 engine, there is no question which is the better driver's car. They also used a FWD A6 with a CVT transmission which is a terrible car. Until the last month or two the E350 sport suspension was a free upgrade with all weather tires. I'm not sure what the current story is.