Why not run an m10 nozzle instead of m7?

jpsimon · 09-19-2010, 09:12 AM

M10 flows more correct? Why wouldn't you want to flow more meth/water? more flow = more meth... means higher octane no?

so why wouldn't one want to run an m10?

GeorgeSmooth · 09-19-2010, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpsimon

M10 flows more correct? Why wouldn't you want to flow more meth/water? more flow = more meth... means higher octane no?

so why wouldn't one want to run an m10?

This is a very good question. I would imagine that the car might run too rich with the bigger nozzle. Lets wait and see what some people with experience say.

GGreek5 · 09-19-2010, 09:28 AM

Hey JP. I think in your case with the upgraded turbos, you should def run the Cm10. I ordered one, and once it comes in I'm installing it. There are a good amount of guys on N54 tech running the Cm 10 or dual meth nozzles.

Mike@N54Tuning.com · 09-19-2010, 10:32 AM

What nozzle you select depends on what horsepower you want to support. The more power you are putting out the more flow you need. There isn't a one fit nozzle for everybody and the best advice is to log timing and see if you need more flow. Too much flow might result in bogging, especially with a high water ratio.

A CM10 seems like a good idea for 400+ whp/wtq or a dual nozzle setup.

Mike

themyst · 09-19-2010, 10:56 AM

good rule of thumb, if you want to run more than 17psi boost, go with a DO10/CM10. If you want the extra ignition timing at 15-16psi, the DO7/CM7 is perfect.

enrita · 09-19-2010, 11:48 AM

Definetely go for the bigger one. I am running 1000ml/min total and works great.

335iPSI · 09-19-2010, 11:55 AM

With my past meth experience in my EVO IX, its sometimes better to use a dual nozzle setup rather than 1 big nozzle --- better atomization.

Mike@N54Tuning.com · 09-19-2010, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 335iPSI

With my past meth experience in my EVO IX, its sometimes better to use a dual nozzle setup rather than 1 big nozzle --- better atomization.

I agree with that 100%, which is why I want dual instead of one big one. That being said the new coolingmist nozzles have the best atomization I have seen. JP, give one of the CM10s a try. You can PM me and I can set you up. The CM nozzles are really great!

Mike

themyst · 09-19-2010, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

I agree with that 100%, which is why I want dual instead of one big one. That being said the new coolingmist nozzles have the best atomization I have seen. JP, give one of the CM10s a try. You can PM me and I can set you up. The CM nozzles are really great!

Mike

+1 the CM10's flow a bit less than the DO10, but they indeed atomize better than a comparable DO10 nozzle and have more threads for the bung which is always a good thing.

I have a smoother timing curve on the CM10 nozzle vs the DO10 as well, with the side benefit of using slightly less meth

R1000K3 · 09-19-2010, 12:53 PM

I'm running an M10 and it works great with pure meth at 20 PSI.

cn555ic · 09-19-2010, 01:00 PM

Shiv stated in one of his threads that he tried both the m7 and m10 and found no difference in performance. I would think he would know better since he tests everything out before hand

themyst · 09-19-2010, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cn555ic

Shiv stated in one of his threads that he tried both the m7 and m10 and found no difference in performance. I would think he would know better since he tests everything out before hand

I want to see comparison logs proving or disproving this. I had kr events and less timing on a cm7 nozzle vs a cm10. Perhaps Shiv can post some logs of his findings. I can post up a log with a do7 nozzle at comparable boost if anyone cares.

R1000K3 · 09-19-2010, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cn555ic

Shiv stated in one of his threads that he tried both the m7 and m10 and found no difference in performance. I would think he would know better since he tests everything out before hand

It may or may not be a difference performance wise, I run M10 at full flow to get as much octane as possible as a safety measure.

Syndicategt · 09-19-2010, 01:25 PM

M7 has better atomization and works well with cars around 500 hp. I'm considering adding a 2nd nozzle though.

jpsimon · 09-19-2010, 01:35 PM

I have a very smooth curve with no timing dropouts, reaching 13.5-14degrees from 6800-7000rpm's at 19psi+ on pump gas with the m7 nozzle. The only thing is when i go to start say a 3rd gear pull at 4500rpm's timing starts a little low. It raises quickly to what I mentioned but I'd like it to see it at 10+ degrees at 4500rpm's when doing a pull starting there.

if I do a "dyno style" pull from 2500rpm-redline timing stays up around 10 advancing to 14 at redline... but it's the short pull starting at 4500 that I want to see with more advance

R1000K3 · 09-19-2010, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syndicategt

M7 has better atomization and works well with cars around 500 hp. I'm considering adding a 2nd nozzle though.

What is this statement based on? There are no 500 whp N54 that I've seen or heard of unless N20 is used or the turbos are upgraded.

Mike@N54Tuning.com · 09-19-2010, 01:39 PM

The reality is you need to test on your own car with a timing log. Everybody has their own opinions. But your car with your nozzle of choice with a proper timing log is what works

The nozzles from any company are so cheap that everybody should be testing and logging a few nozzles to see what works best in their car.

Mike

Syndicategt · 09-19-2010, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R1000K3

What is this statement based on? There are no 500 whp N54 that I've seen or heard of unless N20 is used or the turbos are upgraded.

That is true, just like intercoolers that support 600 hp but no one has hit that mark yet. I'm just saying that my m7 works great and a m10 might be overkill for me, I'd be wasting meth but it's cheap and no biggie. I would like to see some data showing a comparison of nozzle sizes.

jpsimon · 09-19-2010, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syndicategt

That is true, just like intercoolers that support 600 hp but no one has hit that mark yet. I'm just saying that my m7 works great and a m10 might be overkill for me, I'd be wasting meth but it's cheap and no biggie. I would like to see some data showing a comparison of nozzle sizes.

I'll do some tests soon, as I'm running 19-20psi I'm pushing some limits

Clap135 · 09-19-2010, 03:53 PM

I have a dci and meth. I run a m10 without any sort of progressive system. Car runs really good with no mods. Basically at 7-8psi its an on off switch

cn555ic · 09-19-2010, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpsimon

I'll do some tests soon, as I'm running 19-20psi I'm pushing some limits

Your pushing the limits of the turbos if your stock, but what do you think these new upgrades can push up to...I heard Lostmarine was going to push the envelope with his turbos and boost up to 21-22 psi...he is working with CPE to go beyond the 21psi threshold....I wonder what the psi limit would be 23, 24??

jpsimon · 09-19-2010, 06:16 PM

well I'm testing on pump+meth, I think lost marine has mainly been running race gas+meth. You can only run 21psi safely without upgrading a sensor which I don't think anyone has done yet. it looks like sooner than later we'll see some 22psi+ results though as LM looks to be going that route

09-19-2010, 09:12 AM	#1
jpsimon Team Zissou 3081 Rep 10,198 Posts Drives: 2022 AWD M3 Comp - SMB Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: CT iTrader: (7)	Why not run an m10 nozzle instead of m7? M10 flows more correct? Why wouldn't you want to flow more meth/water? more flow = more meth... means higher octane no? so why wouldn't one want to run an m10?
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09-19-2010, 09:28 AM	#3
GGreek5 Olimpiakos 91 Rep 1,426 Posts Drives: M3 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Mass iTrader: (10)	Hey JP. I think in your case with the upgraded turbos, you should def run the Cm10. I ordered one, and once it comes in I'm installing it. There are a good amount of guys on N54 tech running the Cm 10 or dual meth nozzles.
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09-19-2010, 10:32 AM	#4
Mike@N54Tuning.com Joint Chiefs of Staff 4923 Rep 115,999 Posts Drives: 2007 335i, 2015 M3 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: N54tuning.com iTrader: (89)	What nozzle you select depends on what horsepower you want to support. The more power you are putting out the more flow you need. There isn't a one fit nozzle for everybody and the best advice is to log timing and see if you need more flow. Too much flow might result in bogging, especially with a high water ratio. A CM10 seems like a good idea for 400+ whp/wtq or a dual nozzle setup. Mike
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09-19-2010, 10:56 AM	#5
themyst Major General 177 Rep 6,631 Posts Drives: '16 MK7 GTI Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: NYC iTrader: (8)	good rule of thumb, if you want to run more than 17psi boost, go with a DO10/CM10. If you want the extra ignition timing at 15-16psi, the DO7/CM7 is perfect. __________________ E90 LCI N54 6AT
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09-19-2010, 11:48 AM	#6
enrita Major General 161 Rep 7,377 Posts Drives: 335i - Big turbos Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Italian in Sweden iTrader: (0)	Definetely go for the bigger one. I am running 1000ml/min total and works great. __________________ 07 335i AT - MOTIV 750 - MHD E85 BMS flash - BMS PI - JB4G5 - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - Helix IC - Snow Stg. 3 - Stett CP - Custom midpipes with 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - LUX H8 - Level 10 AT upgrade
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09-19-2010, 11:55 AM	#7
335iPSI PSI 15 Rep 349 Posts Drives: 2011 AW 335D Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: FL iTrader: (2)	With my past meth experience in my EVO IX, its sometimes better to use a dual nozzle setup rather than 1 big nozzle --- better atomization. __________________ 2011 335d, M-sport, Alpine White, Nav
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09-19-2010, 12:53 PM	#10
R1000K3 Major 56 Rep 1,311 Posts Drives: 335i MT Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: USA iTrader: (0)	I'm running an M10 and it works great with pure meth at 20 PSI.
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09-19-2010, 01:00 PM	#11
cn555ic 442 Rep 18,331 Posts Drives: 335i Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: US iTrader: (6)	Shiv stated in one of his threads that he tried both the m7 and m10 and found no difference in performance. I would think he would know better since he tests everything out before hand
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09-19-2010, 01:25 PM	#14
Syndicategt Brigadier General 156 Rep 3,730 Posts Drives: 335i Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Nor Cal iTrader: (11)	M7 has better atomization and works well with cars around 500 hp. I'm considering adding a 2nd nozzle though. __________________ 2008 BMW 335i e90 - Sold - Rob Beck Turbos / PROcede V5 / Aquamist HFS-4 / AR Downpipes / AE Exhaust / ER Comp FMIC / ER CP / TiAL BOV / Custom Intake / RPI Scoops / Quaife LSD / Swift-Koni Coilovers / DSS HS / Morr VS8.2 Sig Black / Michelin PSS / P3 Boost Guage / M3 body / M3 steering wheel / Adam's Rotors / Hawk HPS / SS lines /
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09-19-2010, 01:35 PM	#15
jpsimon Team Zissou 3081 Rep 10,198 Posts Drives: 2022 AWD M3 Comp - SMB Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: CT iTrader: (7)	I have a very smooth curve with no timing dropouts, reaching 13.5-14degrees from 6800-7000rpm's at 19psi+ on pump gas with the m7 nozzle. The only thing is when i go to start say a 3rd gear pull at 4500rpm's timing starts a little low. It raises quickly to what I mentioned but I'd like it to see it at 10+ degrees at 4500rpm's when doing a pull starting there. if I do a "dyno style" pull from 2500rpm-redline timing stays up around 10 advancing to 14 at redline... but it's the short pull starting at 4500 that I want to see with more advance
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09-19-2010, 01:39 PM	#17
Mike@N54Tuning.com Joint Chiefs of Staff 4923 Rep 115,999 Posts Drives: 2007 335i, 2015 M3 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: N54tuning.com iTrader: (89)	The reality is you need to test on your own car with a timing log. Everybody has their own opinions. But your car with your nozzle of choice with a proper timing log is what works The nozzles from any company are so cheap that everybody should be testing and logging a few nozzles to see what works best in their car. Mike
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09-19-2010, 03:53 PM	#20
Clap135 Brigadier General 103 Rep 3,460 Posts Drives: 2009 N54 Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Sticky's Mom House iTrader: (1)	I have a dci and meth. I run a m10 without any sort of progressive system. Car runs really good with no mods. Basically at 7-8psi its an on off switch
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09-19-2010, 06:16 PM	#22
jpsimon Team Zissou 3081 Rep 10,198 Posts Drives: 2022 AWD M3 Comp - SMB Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: CT iTrader: (7)	well I'm testing on pump+meth, I think lost marine has mainly been running race gas+meth. You can only run 21psi safely without upgrading a sensor which I don't think anyone has done yet. it looks like sooner than later we'll see some 22psi+ results though as LM looks to be going that route
	Appreciate 0 Quote