Invitation to a VIP E92 M3 show in March 2007

[JK42]

Hello and greetings to everyone on this board. I have some info about the E92 M3, a delivery of which I am also waiting for, so I thought I would post it here as well, since it seems that this is "the place" for information on the new M3.

Here's what I have so far:

Guys,

As I get to test-drive all the cars that the local BMW reseller brings into the country (I automatically get booked for a day to drive and photo, and if I want to, I can ask to keep them longer too), the BMW reseller just last week sent me an invitation to a E92 M3 unveiling happening in March 2007 (exact date of which will be confirmed later, but March is certain) where the final product should already be on display!! I can't wait. I'm number one on the waitlist as far as the actual production cars go, but I'm sure the dealer will get this one demo individual and maybe another one or two other demo cars first, since first deliveries here are not due until later in summer 2007.

I guess BMW will press release the M3 in March, as they typically release new cars in March and September of every year, as I'm sure most of you know. My salesguy and also another guy (who runs the import department) from the reseller told me that deliveries should take place around summer 2007 - probably later in the summer rather than sooner . As far as the car itself, It'll be all that it's been rumored to be and more. Basically, M3 GTR steet legal, with higher max revs and a more advanced transmission system (The SMG IV), and I'm sure I don't have to tell you more about the technology.

Now I just can't wait until March to actually see one of these babies live, touch it, sit in it, hear the engine... But since they promised a March show, that would indicate that BMW is going to start producing these very soon! In fact, in just 2-4 months from now!!! And I'd go bonkers before the summer if I didn't have my ECU tuned 130i M Sport to play around with (The N52B30 is an incredible engine, almost as rev happy and nervous as the M3/Z4 M's S54B32.)

Best regards,

Jussi

[SpencerM3]

AWESOME

Very jealous and looking foward to what you have to say/pictures

[NoelSmart]

If what you say is true.... that is absolutely sick. M3 GTR with higher rev's and a more advanced transmission? BMW is going to have to make that M driving school program they have manditory upon purchase so people don't run these things into walls, off roads, and who knows what else. The M3 GTR was banned from le mans if you remember. This thing is going to be a god damn monster.

[JK42]

Well, the GTR was banned from Le Mans because of pressure from Audi. That's when BMW said goodbye to Le Mans.

But yes, it will be a supercar. Just with the old E46 M3 CSL people had to sign waivers that they understood that the Goodyear tyres that it came with weren't meant for driving in the rain and could be very dangerous, since they were barely road-legal near-slicks (at least they had waivers in the UK, as it was never officially imported into the US.)

But the sad truth of the matter is that people can buy Dodge Vipers, Ferrari F430's or Enzos any day without any mandatory lessons on their driving. And the results can be seen on the net every day, with crash pictures and other sad stories, when people who have too much money but no driving skills go out and buy these things and then lose control.

And as a matter of fact, BMW does run several very high quality voluntary driving schools, including a M Driving school in Nordschleife for high performance vehicle owners who wish to learn to control their M vehicles better in track settings and traffic. They just happen to be voluntary. Taking one would be a very good idea for someone who has no experience driving high-performance cars such as the M3/M5 or M6 and goes out and buys one.

Best regards,

Jussi

[YYdoodle]

THanks for sharing Jussi that's great news I'm sure for all those waiting on this car! March is just a few months away

What is the M3 GTR anyway? Any details on it?

Make sure to keep us updated on this as we get closer to march

[Hans Delbruck]

Thanks for the info!! I figured they'd be out in about a year and your info seems to support that. AWESOME!!

[E90Fleet]

Concept car in March 2007
Production car in September 2007

[JK42]

Hi,

You can google up on the M3 GTR. It is a true Legend. It was a E46-based M3 M GmbH race-project for endurance races with a 4-liter V8 that had over 450hp+ (some say over 500hp.) They had two teams driving it at the American Le Mans series (ALMS) (car number 43 team including the former Finnish Formula 1 driver JJ Lehto) and it won 10 pole positions, 10 races, with 4 races with dual-victories (first and second place both.) So it basically decimated the ALMS in 2001 with winning everything there was to win, even though the competition was tough, with high-end Ferrari's etc.

Here are some very cool pictures from the race:

M3 GTR flying and breathing fire! It's cool not to have catalysators so you can burn over 100 octane race fuel even on the outside of the car on the tailpipes (which were located on the sides of the car on the race version)

http://www.gigapixel.com/albums/albu..._M3_Flying.jpg

Other spectacular M3 GTR pictures. They make for great desktop themes or screensavers:

http://www.gigapixel.com/albums/album14/m3gtr09.jpg
http://www.gigapixel.com/albums/album14/m3gtr38.jpg

It was a fire-breathing monster as you can see, with a 1250kg/2700lbs curb weight and a 100 liter gas tank. Because of the ALMS rules, the car had to be on sale on the civilian market (minimum of 10 cars), so M GmbH built 10 civilian versions of the M3 GTR to be sold for very special clients at 250.000 euros per car. A true rarity. The civilian version is way watered down due to legistlation, requiring catalysators etc. so it had "only" about 350 hp. You can read more about it at here:

http://www.rsportscars.com/eng/cars/bmw_m3gtr.asp

It's a true collectors rarity item these days, basically priceless.

Audi, fearing that the M3 GTR would be too superior, appealed to some rules details and did some dirty tricks to stop the M3 GTR from competing in the real Le Mans, and that's why BMW no longer takes part in the Le Mans after the sensational 1999 BMW victory on the Le Mans. They moved on to Formula 1 after that.

Best regards,

Jussi

[swamp2]

Jussi,

In this thread and others you are talking about:

-A potential public showing in March 2007
-A release date in late summer 2007
-BMW sources comparing new M3 to the GTR
-SMG IV
-450 hp, 450 torque, 9000 rpm redline
-Very light weight

This is starting to sound like serious BS to me . Please cite your sources and or provide some corroboration. This is so much more information than available anywhere else and frankly sounds quite suspect, especially given that the new engine will almost certainly be an M5 engine with cylinders lopped off (500 hp, 8250 rpm redline). Also I have never even heard of SMG IV - evidence?

[Jason]

Here's further debut information from an usual reliable source:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...505#post494505

"M3 Concept scheduled for Geneva 2007, real debut in Frankfurt 2007. Sales start soon after Frankfurt show (Europe; US even few months later)"

[JK42]

Originally Posted by swamp2

Jussi,

In this thread and others you are talking about:

-A potential public showing in March 2007
-A release date in late summer 2007
-BMW sources comparing new M3 to the GTR
-SMG IV
-450 hp, 450 torque, 9000 rpm redline
-Very light weight

This is starting to sound like serious BS to me . Please cite your sources and or provide some corroboration. This is so much more information than available anywhere else and frankly sounds quite suspect, especially given that the new engine will almost certainly be an M5 engine with cylinders lopped off (500 hp, 8250 rpm redline). Also I have never even heard of SMG IV - evidence?

Like I have mentioned on my postings, the different citings are usually included in them. I know for a fact that the E92 M3 will be shown here in March (Read more on this later on this posting.) I've worked with these people (the largest BMW reseller in Scandinavia) for a very long time. As with any new car release, there are bound to be rumors around (such as the fake pricelist that was going around for a while, which I've discounted as a fake myself), so I have tried to include only the most reliable information that I have heard and included the sources when I could. The "M3 GTR-likeness" was the personal opinion of a long-time BMW import representative who had talked about it with a colleague of his in Germany at BMW AG, because an M3 with a 4 Liter V8 was something, I guess, that brought memories of the M3 GTR into his mind, and it does to mine as well. Of course it won't be the E46 M3 GTR, but there are definite similiriaties - a high rev four liter V8 under the bonnet of an M3. The hp/Nm specs are unverified as I have said myself, but I have heard talk of figures closer to 450hp, and this is from all the people in the BMW organization here and the info they have from Germany, and also from an individual who works as a subcontractor for a company that develops and tests software for BMW and sometimes has a chance to testdrive their prototype vehicles, or has to, for his job. I have no contacts with BMW in Germany directly and even if I did, they wouldn't tell me what the hp and Nm will be, I'm sure, so like I mentioned in my post, we'll just have to wait and see. Please re-read my post if you got the impression that I was claiming that this is was an iron-clad figure - no, I specifically mentioned that we'll have to wait and see.

The 9000rpm redline is for a fact as far as I can confirm, again through the reseller and my friend in Germany. The engine concept will be a very high rev V8. As far as the transmission, it will most likely be called SMG IV, that's what I've heard it called most often, but it may contain components of the ZSG/ZCP technology dual clutch transmission that BMW has been developing, since apparently the M GmbH people have been very interested in it lately (this from my friend in Germany.) But the sales people keep insisting that the ZSG/ZCP or whatever it'll be called commercially will be replacing torque converter automatic transmissions such as the steptronic on the regular BMW models, and that M GmbH will keep the SMG III/IV transmission unique to the M models - even to the point that the cheapo versions of SMG for regular BMW models (the non-adjustable, slow, jerky SMG that was available for example, for the non-facelifted Z4 3.0i) has been discontinued so as not to confuse clients, and the transmission levers available on the current regular BMW models for people who want them, are for controlling the steptronic transmission in a manual mode for up or downshifts with the steering wheel levers - no more stripped down SMG at all for regular BMW models. However, whether the new SMG IV incorporates elements from the dual clutch technology, that I do not know - it's all up for speculation. Again the only thing about the SMG IV that I've heard mentioned many times over and over by serious people is that on the most sportiest mode it should be able to do upshifts without using the clutch, i.e. just by matching revs, as in F1 cars.

The showing of the M3 in March will not be public, and it is not just potential, it will happen, unless it gets cancelled, which I doubt since I know for a fact that I, and tens of people who are interested in buying this car, or have connections with BMW or are with the press have the same invitation to the March function as I do, and the local rep has promised that a demo car will be shown there. This leads me to believe that BMW will release the E92 M3 information to the public in March, as they usually almost always release their new cars twice a year - in March and in September. Also, the regular E92 Coupés were released in September and the first cars shipped in September as well which would well indicate that the M3 would be just 1 year behind it, which is what I believe BMW has stated as well.

Also, we've all seen the pictures of less and less masked M3's driving around Germany, and even in the USA. This indicates that a release is very close.

Personally I would get nothing out of BSing people with this, as I'm waiting for the E92 M3 more than I have ever waited any car, since it's the first new M car that I can afford right away, and I've been test driving so many of them as a part of my role with the BMW reseller here, that I really want to own my own ASAP.

P.S.

I just checked the link posted by Jason, and they are talking about a new M3 GTR, which is definitely a misunderstanding. All I have told is that BMW sales and import people here and in Germany think that the new E92 M3 will be quite like the E46 M3 GTR was, since the E46 M3 GTR had a 4 liter V8 with a high-rev concept, and the E92/E90 M3 will have the same. Phew!

Best regards,

Jussi

[JK42]

And by the way, it seems like pretty much everyone in the BMW community agrees that at least the concept will be shown in Geneva 2007, which is in early March. I think it'll be the final product, given that they're rolling around on the streets, unmasked. That's probably why they can spare one up all the way to Finland, too, for a private showing for potential buyers/press/special interest groups.

I did read today from somewhere that it will have the option of manual transmission. That may be true. All I have been hearing about from the BMW dealer here is SMG IV this, SMV IV that, so I haven't really even asked about a manual. If done properly, a manual might be usable, but SMG will definitely kick it's ass much more seriously than on the E46 where the manual tranny was actually much more fun and better to drive than the SMG-II in my opinion.

Best regards,

Jussi

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by JK42

Like I have mentioned on my postings, the different citings are usually included in them. I know for a fact that the E92 M3 will be shown here in March (Read more on this later on this posting.) I've worked with these people (the largest BMW reseller in Scandinavia) for a very long time. As with any new car release, there are bound to be rumors around (such as the fake pricelist that was going around for a while, which I've discounted as a fake myself), so I have tried to include only the most reliable information that I have heard and included the sources when I could. The "M3 GTR-likeness" was the personal opinion of a long-time BMW import representative who had talked about it with a colleague of his in Germany at BMW AG, because an M3 with a 4 Liter V8 was something, I guess, that brought memories of the M3 GTR into his mind, and it does to mine as well. Of course it won't be the E46 M3 GTR, but there are definite similiriaties - a high rev four liter V8 under the bonnet of an M3. The hp/Nm specs are unverified as I have said myself, but I have heard talk of figures closer to 450hp, and this is from all the people in the BMW organization here and the info they have from Germany, and also from an individual who works as a subcontractor for a company that develops and tests software for BMW and sometimes has a chance to testdrive their prototype vehicles, or has to, for his job. I have no contacts with BMW in Germany directly and even if I did, they wouldn't tell me what the hp and Nm will be, I'm sure, so like I mentioned in my post, we'll just have to wait and see. Please re-read my post if you got the impression that I was claiming that this is was an iron-clad figure - no, I specifically mentioned that we'll have to wait and see.

The 9000rpm redline is for a fact as far as I can confirm, again through the reseller and my friend in Germany. The engine concept will be a very high rev V8. As far as the transmission, it will most likely be called SMG IV, that's what I've heard it called most often, but it may contain components of the ZSG/ZCP technology dual clutch transmission that BMW has been developing, since apparently the M GmbH people have been very interested in it lately (this from my friend in Germany.) But the sales people keep insisting that the ZSG/ZCP or whatever it'll be called commercially will be replacing torque converter automatic transmissions such as the steptronic on the regular BMW models, and that M GmbH will keep the SMG III/IV transmission unique to the M models - even to the point that the cheapo versions of SMG for regular BMW models (the non-adjustable, slow, jerky SMG that was available for example, for the non-facelifted Z4 3.0i) has been discontinued so as not to confuse clients, and the transmission levers available on the current regular BMW models for people who want them, are for controlling the steptronic transmission in a manual mode for up or downshifts with the steering wheel levers - no more stripped down SMG at all for regular BMW models. However, whether the new SMG IV incorporates elements from the dual clutch technology, that I do not know - it's all up for speculation. Again the only thing about the SMG IV that I've heard mentioned many times over and over by serious people is that on the most sportiest mode it should be able to do upshifts without using the clutch, i.e. just by matching revs, as in F1 cars.

The showing of the M3 in March will not be public, and it is not just potential, it will happen, unless it gets cancelled, which I doubt since I know for a fact that I, and tens of people who are interested in buying this car, or have connections with BMW or are with the press have the same invitation to the March function as I do, and the local rep has promised that a demo car will be shown there. This leads me to believe that BMW will release the E92 M3 information to the public in March, as they usually almost always release their new cars twice a year - in March and in September. Also, the regular E92 Coupés were released in September and the first cars shipped in September as well which would well indicate that the M3 would be just 1 year behind it, which is what I believe BMW has stated as well.

Also, we've all seen the pictures of less and less masked M3's driving around Germany, and even in the USA. This indicates that a release is very close.

Personally I would get nothing out of BSing people with this, as I'm waiting for the E92 M3 more than I have ever waited any car, since it's the first new M car that I can afford right away, and I've been test driving so many of them as a part of my role with the BMW reseller here, that I really want to own my own ASAP.

P.S.

I just checked the link posted by Jason, and they are talking about a new M3 GTR, which is definitely a misunderstanding. All I have told is that BMW sales and import people here and in Germany think that the new E92 M3 will be quite like the E46 M3 GTR was, since the E46 M3 GTR had a 4 liter V8 with a high-rev concept, and the E92/E90 M3 will have the same. Phew!

Jussi

Thanks for your insight. Everyone here woul like to believe everything you say, but with so little hard information at this point, people are a little skeptical. We all must wait and see what unfolds, and we welcome your further updates.

[JK42]

Well, I don't think I have any further updates at this point, but when I see the people at several BMW locations weekly (I have to test drive the X3 3.0sd this coming week), I might be hearing something new, and if it sounds sensible, I will post it. I will also ask around the people who are in the know (that is, at the BMW locations), more about the weight and the details of the SMG IV, as those are issues that I have the least amount of detailed information about. The only thing I have heard about the light weight (I forgot to adress this above when I was facing the spanish inquisition) is that there will be a CF roof - which of course won't guarantee anything since the M6 had it too, and it's still a tank, but besides the CF roof, supposedly the manufacturing process will use several new materials and technologies that have never been used before in serial automotive construction, and that since the engine is a V8, the car will automatically be lighter because the engine can be placed further back, which removes the need for counterbalance weight (heavy metal) in the back of the car - usually BMWs are built with a very lightweight front end with a straight six, V10 or V12 engine and heavier metals in the back to counterbalance the weight on the back side to achieve the 50:50 weight distro which can't and won't be compromised on, ever. The results you can see on the current M5 and M6 - very heavy cars in total weight, because they had to counterbalance the heavy, long engines with loads of heavy materials in the back of the vehicle as well to have 50:50.

Best regards,

Jussi

[swamp2]

No need to think this is an inquisition! I know you did not say your information was cold hard facts, but you are strong/certain in your language. We are all just as curious and excited as you are. I have already placed my deposit as well and this will be my third M3! The waiting is killing me and I'm sure it will be especially painful in the summer.

So again the dates you mention do not sound suspect. Your dealer may see an M3 in March but I'd be willing to bet not before the major unveiling at Geneva (if that even happens there and then). What is your exact association with this reseller? You mention you do test drives. Tell us some more and definitely do keep posting all the gossip/facts/information/hearsay etc. you can!

Last but not least I'd also place a wager against a 9k rpm redline. Honda tried that in a production car and had to scale things back a bit.

Cheers

[JK42]

Hi,

Thank God Honda is not BMW M GmbH. If anyone can do it, it'll be the people at M GmbH. Their engineering work is the best in the world, and that's something that even people at competitors such as Volkswagen (Pietsch, for example) admit. (He still drives his E39 M5 as a daily car even though he heads the VAG group!!) (Some admit it openly, some less openly.) As an example of BMW's engineering superiority: The Hydrogen power concept. The project was started over 10 years ago. Now they have a car that runs purely on hydrogen, the 760h, with an innovative new concept for automated fueling stations for it. (Those have been something that have been long wanted and planned in the auto industry anyway, even for regular gas.) They're at the very least over 5 years ahead of anybody else in the use of Hydrogen power for automobiles, and Hydrogen is surely the wave of the future, not electric cars and not hybrid, since hydrogen is 100% emission free. It's also over 130 octane and has 2.5 times the BTU pre unit of gasoline, which means it is a much more powerful substance to power vehicles, and I personally can't wait for pure hydrogen straight sixes. The future looks very bright for high performance automobiles - no emissions, just water, but incredibly powerful new source of fuel, which other manufacturers can't copy fast enough from BMW like they copy all their other concepts as well. Someone has to to lead the way in engineering, and on this planet in the field of automobiles, it is BMW with their no hostages, no compromises approach to everything. They have never made technical compromises, and that has paid off. Furthermore, they employ the best people. In 2004 they had 3500 job openings which received over 1.5 million applications in Germany alone. And they are very careful to avoid spys, especially of the Chinese auto industry that would love to steal their development work and patents. They do not employ foreign citizens at the main engineering centers where the real secrets are - they're more bent on security than the US government. Funny, and excellent.

As far as myself, I am sure that you understand that I will not divulge information about my personal life on Internet forums, but let's just say that I do contract work for the reseller, test drives of all new BMW models that they bring into the country and intend to sell (usually these test models will end up as demo or test drive cars at the reseller's locations) are one aspect of it, another aspect is knowing BMW vehicles very well, including their behaviour in special conditions, such as on the track, so that in cases where a customer of the reseller, for example, claims to have an extensive problem such as with electronics, or other strange issue with the car, that the regular service and maintenance people can't locate or fix, I am sometimes called on to test drive and extensively try out (sometimes even stress test to see if it breaks) that individual car to find out whether the customer is right or whether he/she is nuts, as these cases usually involve demands of new replacement vehicles by the customer or other compensations, which tend to end up being very expensive for the BMW dealer, and they wish to avoid them unless there really is a real problem - because in that case, BMW AG will pick up the tab if the vehicle is still under warranty, and even in some cases if it isn't under warranty anymore, if it's a clear manufacturing fault, because they wish to keep their reputation good - however during all my years, I have only seen few instances of the last kind, and they all involved early S54B32 M3 engines which had a bad batch of third party ball bearings supplied to BMW, that could, in certain circumstances, cause spectacular failures of the whole engine. BMW changed suppliers around early 2003 and the problem went away, but the reseller kept getting cases where an M3 that had been bought prior to the fix had it's engine explode for example 4 years after it was purchased (and the warranty is 2 years here), but they had BMW AG supply a new fixed engine for free anyway as long as the car was originally purchased from the local reseller.

Anyway, as mentioned on my last posting, I will keep providing pertinent information as it becomes available.

I'm sure the demo cars will be flown around europe for demos like here in March after the Geneva show, not before it, of course, or whenever it gets released, if not in Geneva, but in March anyway.

Unfortunately I do not have the financial freedom of being able to order my third M3, this is my first M BMW and I've waited for the financial ability to order one for a long time, dreamt about it, and waited and worked for it hard, especially since I have been driving them for my mentioned contract job and know them intimately, so I'm not in a position to place wagers. Suffice to say, I am VERY excited as it will be my first own M BMW. And as an additional "tough luck", the car taxes in this country are insane. They double the prices of all vehicles. A 55000 euro M3 in Germany is 100.000 euros here with the taxes. No way around them. And they reflect on the used market too, of course. The M5 costs 135.000 euros here and the M6 costs 178.000 euros, with the 760iL topping the BMW model range pricing at 193.000 euros MSRP - all prices without any optional equipment. For example, not a single 760i or iL has been sold through the official BMW importer in the whole country the whole time the E65/E66 models have existed. 1 760i model year 2002 has been imported by a private individual from Germany (and paying the taxes for it, but he must have got the car cheap itself since cars are now taxed in Germany by how much emissions they produce.) Because no 760i's have been sold, or ordered as demo cars, I had to go to Germany to test drive one for the local reseller. Few (less than 20) 750i/iL's have been sold in the country and that amount includes the earlier 745i/iL's that it replaced. The 750i costs "only" 138.000 euros with basic options, so it's a more sensible choice for luxury sedan buyers.

Also the state has few 745iL Protection models for official purposes (for the President, commander of the army and few other officials)

Because of this, the E92 M3 will probably run me about 120.000e+ even with all the discounts as it will almost certainly be more expensive than the E46 M3 was and I know that I want several excellent (and expensive) options in it.

Best regards,

Jussi

[Mpwr]

this is great news JK42. thanks for keeping me updated. looking forward to my new M3 soon.

[JK42]

You'll find a new update from today (which I discussed with a local sales rep here today) on the forum now.

Best regards,

Jussi

[replicat]

Jussi, you my friend have provided nothing but the best info to us all, now it may just be heresay, but I'll tell you what...It puts the biggest smile on my face after reading one of your (what have become signature) 3 paragraph posts!

[JK42]

Hi,

Thanks. I hope what I am hearing and relaying isn't too far off the mark - actually, at all, because I want that E92 M3 on my own parking spot (I already reserved a second spot for it!) and I want it ASAP! My first OWN M GmbH Motorsport BMW.

Best regards,

Jussi

[KBMW69]

How do I get on the waiting list for the e92 M3? I want to buy the car the SECOND it comes out meaning I want to be on of the FIRST to own it.

[replicat]

Originally Posted by kbmw69

How do I get on the waiting list for the e92 M3? I want to buy the car the SECOND it comes out meaning I want to be on of the FIRST to own it.

Well, you have to go to the dealer nearest you that has a waiting list (usually the smaller dealers will have them) fill out a contract with them stating what is wanted and expected of them and you, sign it. Then give them the deposit, usually about $500 and then sit and wait.