Can I modify my car to the gas-saving engine shut down at a stop system

DionDion · 10-16-2010, 01:19 AM

When I went to Europe the 318d had this cool system of shutting it's engine at the lights. When I depressed the clutch the car would start again.
Could I get this to work on my 335 that's not a diesel etc.?

ELITE_TRAYUNZE · 10-16-2010, 02:45 AM

I personally wouldn't recommend this. For a typical engine, it takes more gas to start an engine than it does to let it idle for about 3 minutes (4.5 minutes in cold weather).
Also, starting an engine is one of the hardest things you can do to it, so a lot of engine start/shut-offs can actually make the engine wear faster.

DimSum · 10-16-2010, 03:52 AM

It's not a feature for north america, nor does it really acutally save gas. Your engine has to be stopped for longer than 10 seconds before you can "save" gas.

samchoi604 · 10-16-2010, 05:03 AM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but surely it is in some sort of a standby state, not a complete engine shut down.

TTE90 · 10-16-2010, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ELITE_TRAYUNZE

I personally wouldn't recommend this. For a typical engine, it takes more gas to start an engine than it does to let it idle for about 3 minutes (4.5 minutes in cold weather).
Also, starting an engine is one of the hardest things you can do to it, so a lot of engine start/shut-offs can actually make the engine wear faster.

I don't buy the three minutes of gas at idle. Do you know how much gas you burn in 3 minutes, way more for sure. Put a bag on your exhaust pipe at idle for three minutes, then compare it only as your car turns over. First of all your starter turns it over.
DIMSUM's 10 sec of gas burned I believe-----I wish I had stop lights that I only had to wait less than that. It's gotta be worth it.
I'm thinking diesels might be easier to have this feature, don't exactly know why.

PiperD · 10-16-2010, 10:32 PM

I've also read that hybrids benefit most by not idling the engine at stoplights. Take it or leave it.

CRS · 10-17-2010, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DimSum

It's not a feature for north america, nor does it really acutally save gas. Your engine has to be stopped for longer than 10 seconds before you can "save" gas.

Actually, it is more around the minute to two minute range.

Think about a red light. They go for around 30-45 secs, so are you saying that you would quickly stop and restart your engine for a red light because it is longer than 10 secs?

subtlestylez · 10-17-2010, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DimSum

It's not a feature for north america, nor does it really acutally save gas. Your engine has to be stopped for longer than 10 seconds before you can "save" gas.

Manual says 4 seconds on the 2011 3-series

ultimateracing335 · 10-17-2010, 11:25 AM

So you save 50 bucks at the end of the year. Its a round of drinks.

DionDion · 10-17-2010, 03:56 PM

It was actually kinda cool. Hard to explain, but it was quiet at the lights and because it was diesel and warm, when you depressed the clutch again it wasn't turnover-turnover-start as you guys may be thinking...I think even the starter wasn't engaged. At least that's what it felt like. Maybe gas ignited by warm glow plugs (?)...does that make sense? It was seamless---quiet to go.

335BBS · 10-18-2010, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ELITE_TRAYUNZE

I personally wouldn't recommend this. For a typical engine, it takes more gas to start an engine than it does to let it idle for about 3 minutes (4.5 minutes in cold weather).
Also, starting an engine is one of the hardest things you can do to it, so a lot of engine start/shut-offs can actually make the engine wear faster.

Thats incorrect. In the old carburated days that would be correct. Once a modern fuel injected engine is up to temp its a fuel saving system. Do you really think manufacturers all around the world would create a fuel saving measure that burned more fuel?

t7n7 · 10-18-2010, 11:50 AM

my manual says, not to start-stop the engine at regular intervals and to wait a brief moment before starting the engine back up..... this doesn't have to do with fuel... has to do with damaging it as there is more stress on the components when the engine starts up.. regardless of temperature..

however, I was also doing some experiments to see how much gas i'm saving compared to keeping it idling...

the results are... stopping the engine saves more fuel... mind you, i have a V8TT so it could be different for smaller engines...

also the fuel consumption reading needs a better algorithm when the car is idling since it seems to take into account several variables to come up with the number... speed, range, throttle etc.. now when the car is stopped.. it basically gives a 0 for speed.. and so it thinks i'm consuming like 40L/100 at a red light lol..... which is not true... when i slowly roll at over 1km/h ... it drops down significantly.. .thus my conclusion regarding the shitty fuel consumption algorithm..

after some testing.. it takes about 5L/100km in fuel when i'm idling...

the above is strictly for my car... it could vary for others... i've left my TL running literally for 4-5 hours idling.. never had a problem.. fuel wasn't an issue at all... but with the X.. even 5 minutes of idling takes a toll on fuel...

335BBS · 10-18-2010, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t7n7

my manual says, not to start-stop the engine at regular intervals and to wait a brief moment before starting the engine back up..... this doesn't have to do with fuel... has to do with damaging it as there is more stress on the components when the engine starts up.. regardless of temperature..

however, I was also doing some experiments to see how much gas i'm saving compared to keeping it idling...

the results are... stopping the engine saves more fuel... mind you, i have a V8TT so it could be different for smaller engines...

also the fuel consumption reading needs a better algorithm when the car is idling since it seems to take into account several variables to come up with the number... speed, range, throttle etc.. now when the car is stopped.. it basically gives a 0 for speed.. and so it thinks i'm consuming like 40L/100 at a red light lol..... which is not true... when i slowly roll at over 1km/h ... it drops down significantly.. .thus my conclusion regarding the shitty fuel consumption algorithm..

after some testing.. it takes about 5L/100km in fuel when i'm idling...

the above is strictly for my car... it could vary for others... i've left my TL running literally for 4-5 hours idling.. never had a problem.. fuel wasn't an issue at all... but with the X.. even 5 minutes of idling takes a toll on fuel...

Your engine was not designed to start and stop regularly. The others are purpose built and start seamlessly as you step on the gas pedal. Totally diferent system. Your engine starts the same way every time...about 2 seconds of crank (lets oil pressure and fuel pressure build) whereas those that shut down maintain those pressures.

Protruck · 10-19-2010, 07:41 AM

So you save money on gas but go throught 3 starters a year, then there's ring gears plus as said above more wear and tear on engine, so figure and engine rebuild at 100,000 km. How about municipalities actually spend some of our money and integrate the traffic lights so we have to come to a stop less often!! That saves cars and helps the environment as every time to have to accelerate away from standstill the engine is not at it's most efficient and therefore spewing more pollution. Think about that!

335BBS · 10-19-2010, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Protruck

So you save money on gas but go throught 3 starters a year, then there's ring gears plus as said above more wear and tear on engine, so figure and engine rebuild at 100,000 km. How about municipalities actually spend some of our money and integrate the traffic lights so we have to come to a stop less often!! That saves cars and helps the environment as every time to have to accelerate away from standstill the engine is not at it's most efficient and therefore spewing more pollution. Think about that!

Good one.....standard forum response. You have no clue but just assume that BMW etc are all idiots. You hate Service advisers, dealers and can't understand why you don't get a 550 for a loaner when you go in for an oil change. Close? Ever drive a golf cart? The second you hit the gas it moves. Similar. Maybe you should try a Hybrid so you might have a better understanding of how these things work. They are seamless.

I335 · 10-19-2010, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leaker

Good one.....standard forum response. You have no clue but just assume that BMW etc are all idiots. You hate Service advisers, dealers and can't understand why you don't get a 550 for a loaner when you go in for an oil change. Close? Ever drive a golf cart? The second you hit the gas it moves. Similar. Maybe you should try a Hybrid so you might have a better understanding of how these things work. They are seamless.

How are you reading all that into Protruck's post? I don't see it at all. I think he has very good points...

335BBS · 10-19-2010, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I335

How are you reading all that into Protruck's post? I don't see it at all. I think he has very good points...

Sorry about that...need some sleep I guess. He just doesnt understand how they work and turned it into the Government not spending enough dough on traffic lights and BMW building in obsolesence. I raed a lot of brutal posts before I responded to this one. Sorry about that Protruck.

t7n7 · 10-19-2010, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leaker

Your engine was not designed to start and stop regularly. The others are purpose built and start seamlessly as you step on the gas pedal. Totally diferent system. Your engine starts the same way every time...about 2 seconds of crank (lets oil pressure and fuel pressure build) whereas those that shut down maintain those pressures.

thanks but i already knew that... I was just testing to see the fuel consumption.... forget red lights and gridlock, a lot of times i end up leaving the engine on.. i just wanted to see how much my consumption was... besides... like i mentioned before... i left my TL idling for hours on a regular basis...

t7n7 · 10-19-2010, 01:09 PM

you got issues.... more like your blending different threads together.. specifically my Townandcountryisshit thread.... re the fact I didn't get a loaner...

you also replied to my post and assumed I didn't know what the op was talking about.. but if you read what i wrote... has nothing to do with start-stop engines... they are a totally different design... duh.. what i wanted to do was to get a proper fuel consumption reading.... I have 4 cars and the X is the only one that gives me an incorrect fuel consumption reading when i'm idling... which is the reason for my test...

what that person said can also be true... you seem to love engaging into arguments.. good for you.. i will not waste my time trying... first.. relax... go get some cookies and some milk and catch up on your sleep....

DionDion · 10-19-2010, 03:31 PM

I got this from wikipedia:
"BMW is including the technology across many of its cars and the MINI line for 2008 as part of its Efficient Dynamics brand. BMW has been interested in ways to reduce parasitic losses on engines, so the company took the technology a step further. Instead of using an integrated starter generator, BMW has used an enhanced-starter which is nothing more than a conventional starter, developed by Robert Bosch GmbH, that can withstand the increased number of engine-starts in a stop-start vehicle. BMW has developed the system such that the alternator is not activated most of the time. This means that electrical components in the vehicle are normally running on battery power. When the battery needs to be charged or when decelerating or braking, the alternator is activated to recharge the battery (regenerative braking). Since this battery experiences very different load characteristics than a normal car battery, BMW used an absorptive glass mat type instead. Due to the use of regenerative braking, some have started calling this type of system a micro hybrid, a step below a mild hybrid system where the ISG can be used to assist the engine or even drive the vehicle."

also (with small video):
http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/t...tart_stop.html

TheRox · 10-19-2010, 06:31 PM

Panamera has it...its annoying. It can be turned off.

It leads to excessive starter wear...so the starters need to be stronger.

DionDion · 10-19-2010, 10:05 PM

It might be annoying in the panamera maybe because of its PDK tranny, I don't know. It was really seamless in the 2010 318d in Europe. It almost seems that this is how it should be, with nothing rotating when your not moving. You not only get used to it, you begin to like it.
They're bringing it to Canada anyway....you'll see.

10-16-2010, 01:19 AM	#1
DionDion Enlisted Member 2 Rep 39 Posts Drives: 335 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Hamilton iTrader: (0)	Can I modify my car to the gas-saving engine shut down at a stop system When I went to Europe the 318d had this cool system of shutting it's engine at the lights. When I depressed the clutch the car would start again. Could I get this to work on my 335 that's not a diesel etc.?
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10-16-2010, 02:45 AM	#2
ELITE_TRAYUNZE Captain 11 Rep 643 Posts Drives: AW 07 E90 328i Sport Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Vancouver, BC iTrader: (1)	I personally wouldn't recommend this. For a typical engine, it takes more gas to start an engine than it does to let it idle for about 3 minutes (4.5 minutes in cold weather). Also, starting an engine is one of the hardest things you can do to it, so a lot of engine start/shut-offs can actually make the engine wear faster.
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10-16-2010, 03:52 AM	#3
DimSum Banned 202 Rep 2,740 Posts Drives: SLOW Join Date: May 2008 Location: LITTLEBIMMER.COM iTrader: (10)	It's not a feature for north america, nor does it really acutally save gas. Your engine has to be stopped for longer than 10 seconds before you can "save" gas.
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10-16-2010, 05:03 AM	#4
samchoi604 Colonel 61 Rep 2,334 Posts Drives: black on black Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Burnaby, BC iTrader: (3)	Correct me if I'm wrong, but surely it is in some sort of a standby state, not a complete engine shut down.
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10-16-2010, 10:32 PM	#6
PiperD Clutch pedal >> Dead pedal 18 Rep 709 Posts Drives: '11 e92 335is 6MT Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: GTA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2011 335is coupe [0.00] 2007 335i coupe [0.00]	I've also read that hybrids benefit most by not idling the engine at stoplights. Take it or leave it. __________________ In my garage: '11 e92 335is 6MT (05/10) SpGrey/CoralRed/GlacSlvr ExecPkg/NavPkg/19" 225M Retired: '07 e92 335i 6MT (12/06) SpklgGrpht/CoralRed/GreyPoplar Retired: '04 330Ci M-Sport 6MT SilverGrey/NaturalTan/MyrtleWood Retired: '00 328Ci 5MT SteelGrey/Grey/MyrtleWood Retired: '87 Pontiac Grand-Am 3AT White/Grey
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10-17-2010, 11:25 AM	#9
ultimateracing335 Second Lieutenant 35 Rep 220 Posts Drives: blk 335i sedan with mods Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: toronto canada iTrader: (0)	So you save 50 bucks at the end of the year. Its a round of drinks.
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10-17-2010, 03:56 PM	#10
DionDion Enlisted Member 2 Rep 39 Posts Drives: 335 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Hamilton iTrader: (0)	It was actually kinda cool. Hard to explain, but it was quiet at the lights and because it was diesel and warm, when you depressed the clutch again it wasn't turnover-turnover-start as you guys may be thinking...I think even the starter wasn't engaged. At least that's what it felt like. Maybe gas ignited by warm glow plugs (?)...does that make sense? It was seamless---quiet to go.
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10-18-2010, 11:50 AM	#12
t7n7 CYNOSURE 11 Rep 216 Posts Drives: Tesla ModelS - waiting... Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: DT Toronto/Markham/Ajax iTrader: (0)	my manual says, not to start-stop the engine at regular intervals and to wait a brief moment before starting the engine back up..... this doesn't have to do with fuel... has to do with damaging it as there is more stress on the components when the engine starts up.. regardless of temperature.. however, I was also doing some experiments to see how much gas i'm saving compared to keeping it idling... the results are... stopping the engine saves more fuel... mind you, i have a V8TT so it could be different for smaller engines... also the fuel consumption reading needs a better algorithm when the car is idling since it seems to take into account several variables to come up with the number... speed, range, throttle etc.. now when the car is stopped.. it basically gives a 0 for speed.. and so it thinks i'm consuming like 40L/100 at a red light lol..... which is not true... when i slowly roll at over 1km/h ... it drops down significantly.. .thus my conclusion regarding the shitty fuel consumption algorithm.. after some testing.. it takes about 5L/100km in fuel when i'm idling... the above is strictly for my car... it could vary for others... i've left my TL running literally for 4-5 hours idling.. never had a problem.. fuel wasn't an issue at all... but with the X.. even 5 minutes of idling takes a toll on fuel... __________________ 09' X650i loaded hud/comfort/sports/premium/audio/coldweather/power - the beast / 03' G35c electrochromic tints - www.youtube.com/wisht7n7 - the baby / 02' TL internet/satTV/massage seats - the entertainer / 10' TSX - currently modding - Go kart / TESLA MODEL S - Signature Edition #73 2012
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10-19-2010, 07:41 AM	#14
Protruck Private 5 Rep 62 Posts Drives: 2009 335i Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Oakville, ON iTrader: (0) Garage List 2009 335i Sedan [0.00]	Don't think so! So you save money on gas but go throught 3 starters a year, then there's ring gears plus as said above more wear and tear on engine, so figure and engine rebuild at 100,000 km. How about municipalities actually spend some of our money and integrate the traffic lights so we have to come to a stop less often!! That saves cars and helps the environment as every time to have to accelerate away from standstill the engine is not at it's most efficient and therefore spewing more pollution. Think about that!
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10-19-2010, 01:09 PM	#19
t7n7 CYNOSURE 11 Rep 216 Posts Drives: Tesla ModelS - waiting... Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: DT Toronto/Markham/Ajax iTrader: (0)	you got issues.... more like your blending different threads together.. specifically my Townandcountryisshit thread.... re the fact I didn't get a loaner... you also replied to my post and assumed I didn't know what the op was talking about.. but if you read what i wrote... has nothing to do with start-stop engines... they are a totally different design... duh.. what i wanted to do was to get a proper fuel consumption reading.... I have 4 cars and the X is the only one that gives me an incorrect fuel consumption reading when i'm idling... which is the reason for my test... what that person said can also be true... you seem to love engaging into arguments.. good for you.. i will not waste my time trying... first.. relax... go get some cookies and some milk and catch up on your sleep.... __________________ 09' X650i loaded hud/comfort/sports/premium/audio/coldweather/power - the beast / 03' G35c electrochromic tints - www.youtube.com/wisht7n7 - the baby / 02' TL internet/satTV/massage seats - the entertainer / 10' TSX - currently modding - Go kart / TESLA MODEL S - Signature Edition #73 2012
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10-19-2010, 03:31 PM	#20
DionDion Enlisted Member 2 Rep 39 Posts Drives: 335 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Hamilton iTrader: (0)	I got this from wikipedia: "BMW is including the technology across many of its cars and the MINI line for 2008 as part of its Efficient Dynamics brand. BMW has been interested in ways to reduce parasitic losses on engines, so the company took the technology a step further. Instead of using an integrated starter generator, BMW has used an enhanced-starter which is nothing more than a conventional starter, developed by Robert Bosch GmbH, that can withstand the increased number of engine-starts in a stop-start vehicle. BMW has developed the system such that the alternator is not activated most of the time. This means that electrical components in the vehicle are normally running on battery power. When the battery needs to be charged or when decelerating or braking, the alternator is activated to recharge the battery (regenerative braking). Since this battery experiences very different load characteristics than a normal car battery, BMW used an absorptive glass mat type instead. Due to the use of regenerative braking, some have started calling this type of system a micro hybrid, a step below a mild hybrid system where the ISG can be used to assist the engine or even drive the vehicle." also (with small video): http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/t...tart_stop.html
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10-19-2010, 06:31 PM	#21
TheRox Colonel 119 Rep 2,312 Posts Drives: 6mt Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Here and there iTrader: (2)	Panamera has it...its annoying. It can be turned off. It leads to excessive starter wear...so the starters need to be stronger.
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10-19-2010, 10:05 PM	#22
DionDion Enlisted Member 2 Rep 39 Posts Drives: 335 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Hamilton iTrader: (0)	It might be annoying in the panamera maybe because of its PDK tranny, I don't know. It was really seamless in the 2010 318d in Europe. It almost seems that this is how it should be, with nothing rotating when your not moving. You not only get used to it, you begin to like it. They're bringing it to Canada anyway....you'll see.
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