Could the Procede control 2nd Injectors?

klipseracer · 11-12-2010, 10:34 PM

So lets say hypothetically we had access to a secondary fuel rail that we could connect to our stock manifold. Would it be possible and how difficult would it be to implement secondary fuel injector control into the procede? I know the standback can do it. But would it be possible? And if it is, who has a spare manifold laying around that I can play with

I'm assuming we'd need some sort of fuel controller that would take a signal from the tune regulating injector pulse duration etc. Any ideas here?

Transport3r · 11-12-2010, 11:03 PM

Sorry, DI noob here. But why? More fuel for BT applications?

klipseracer · 11-12-2010, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshuo

Sorry, DI noob here. But why? More fuel for BT applications?

Secondary injection would be done by port fueling, at least thats what I have in mind. Tap holes for each runner and connect it to a fuel rail, a fuel controller of some type and then the tune would need to manage that controller. We are at the fueling limits with upgraded twins as well as pretty much any big single. If the fueling was better, we could see what 23-25psi on upgraded twins would look like.

OpenFlash · 11-12-2010, 11:29 PM

It would be easy to drive a set of batch fired secondary injectors with the Procede. I haven't run additional injectors in any car for over a decade. But if there's a strong reason, we can make it happen.

Bimmer This · 11-12-2010, 11:34 PM

just take a page out if the Chevrolet C4 Corvette ZR1 book.

Overboost · 11-12-2010, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

It would be easy to drive a set of batch fired secondary injectors with the Procede. I haven't run additional injectors in any car for over a decade. But if there's a strong reason, we can make it happen.

Would is still Autotune?

klipseracer · 11-13-2010, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

It would be easy to drive a set of batch fired secondary injectors with the Procede. I haven't run additional injectors in any car for over a decade. But if there's a strong reason, we can make it happen.

Wouldn't you agree there is a strong reason with the upgraded twins and singles coming out?

Would there be a need for a fuel controller or would the procede be able to drive them by itself? Having batch/sequential injectors come on at over 4k rpm's on a race map would be sick. How much injector control could we have here as far as keeping stoich?

klipseracer · 11-13-2010, 12:49 AM

What would this require outside of the custom work to get the injectors into the manifold runners?

Procede
Injectors
Fuel Rail
Custom wire harness
Fuel pump and hosing

To be honest, anyone who is looking for a tune that provides future proofing, this is much more interesting than any of these other features being implemented. I remember when methanol wasn't popular. Now its everywhere. Lets make this the next solution

Maybe I just have a spot in my heart for this from my DSM days.

Jeff@TopGearSolutions · 11-13-2010, 01:16 AM

I think with the limit of the fuel system for the 500WHP+ Market, this might be a better solution then using Methanol as a Band Aid for fuel...

mwahlert · 11-13-2010, 02:18 AM

i'm sure someone will produce a hpfp with increased volume delivery and larger injectors.

this isn't the only DI turbo car on the market... there are upgraded HPFP's for the VWs and mazdaspeeds as well as injectors.

BrianMN · 11-13-2010, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mwahlert

i'm sure someone will produce a hpfp with increased volume delivery and larger injectors.

this isn't the only DI turbo car on the market... there are upgraded HPFP's for the VWs and mazdaspeeds as well as injectors.

A few very smart, competent and capable people and companies tried with no luck. AMS and CPE are ones that were working on it for a while. There have probably been more attempts but never saw the light of day.

If it was going to happen, it should've happened by now.

mwahlert · 11-13-2010, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianMN

A few very smart, competent and capable people and companies tried with no luck. AMS and CPE are ones that were working on it for a while. There have probably been more attempts but never saw the light of day.

If it was going to happen, it should've happened by now.

the market is slow to develop products for this line up, period.

look how long it took to see upgraded turbos hit the market?

give it time - the pumps/injectors will come.

BrianMN · 11-13-2010, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mwahlert

the market is slow to develop products for this line up, period.

look how long it took to see upgraded turbos hit the market?

give it time - the pumps/injectors will come.

True, but there has been a much stronger NEED for an upgraded HPFP than the WANT of upgraded turbos or other performance parts. It's a basic part of the car that simply needs to be upgraded. If there was an upgraded HPFP, or even one that was guaranteed not to fail, I'd say half the people on here would choose to buy the upgraded one out of pocket....which is a much larger market than the 20 or so that will are going with upgraded turbos this year.

klipseracer · 11-13-2010, 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianMN

True, but there has been a much stronger NEED for an upgraded HPFP than the WANT of upgraded turbos or other performance parts. It's a basic part of the car that simply needs to be upgraded. If there was an upgraded HPFP, or even one that was guaranteed not to fail, I'd say half the people on here would choose to buy the upgraded one out of pocket....which is a much larger market than the 20 or so that will are going with upgraded turbos this year.

I agree with this. The demand for the hpfp is off the charts yet still no one is capable of realistically providing it. This on the otherhand is a fairly simple solution comparatively from what I can gather and as shiv states, shouldn't be a huge issue. We just need to show so support for it. Anyone have any ideas where a fuel rail might fit on our manifold? Its been a while since I last was digging around in there.

bobbers114 · 11-13-2010, 05:59 PM

without another control box, no. but there are options out there, i believe AEm has one, maybe with that, but i would say no as currently configured

Tiago@VRSF · 11-13-2010, 06:15 PM

The problem isn't just using additional injectors, you'd also need an additional fuel pump to supplement the second set of injectors. This is really only a band aid when people should actually be focusing on an upgraded mechanical FP or HPFP.

klipseracer · 11-14-2010, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tvieira24

The problem isn't just using additional injectors, you'd also need an additional fuel pump to supplement the second set of injectors. This is really only a band aid when people should actually be focusing on an upgraded mechanical FP or HPFP.

I already mentioned the fuel pump. but an addition pump is no big deal. Upgrading turbos and turning up boost and deleting cats etc etc etc is just a band aid when we should have a GTR.

tscdennab · 11-14-2010, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by klipseracer

I already mentioned the fuel pump. but an addition pump is no big deal. Upgrading turbos and turning up boost and deleting cats etc etc etc is just a band aid when we should have a GTR.

I think that it's far more reasonable to think of upgraded injectors and fuel pump than secondary injectors. A more elegant solution, IMO.

klipseracer · 11-14-2010, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tscdennab

I think that it's far more reasonable to think of upgraded injectors and fuel pump than secondary injectors. A more elegant solution, IMO.

How is it more reasonable at all? A million dollars in my pocket right now sounds more elegant also, but its not there. Where is this upgraded fuel pump you are talking about? Secondary injection could be made possible now. Upgraded fuel pump may be made available about the same time as we all sell our cars.

Upgrading the fuel pump is NOT a more elegant or better or smarter option when its not an option to begin with. +1 myself.

EDIT: Not running meth, n20 or race gas is also a more 'elegant' and better option. But we do it anyways. All of you guys are sounding like pussy ass stereotypical bmw owners right now. Go put your aviator's on and cut me off and continue thinking lifetime fluids really mean shit.

Former_Boosted_IS · 11-15-2010, 04:46 AM

Ignore anyone that hates Klips. They probably also don't realize the IS-F has an DI injection and an EFI fuel system to provide the needed additional fuel. Not only is it elegant, it is exactly what needs to happen to advance the N54.

klipseracer · 11-18-2010, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS

Ignore anyone that hates Klips. They probably also don't realize the IS-F has an DI injection and an EFI fuel system to provide the needed additional fuel. Not only is it elegant, it is exactly what needs to happen to advance the N54.

+1

I can be a blunt a hole but really. Somebody should do this.

scalbert · 11-18-2010, 06:21 PM

Could it, yes. But it may require additional hardware unless they are batch fired and the current rating is enough for the output. That, or an additional box could be added. But at that point an external controller could be used and tuned for the additional injection.

11-12-2010, 10:34 PM	#1
klipseracer Banned 219 Rep 3,012 Posts Drives: 2007 E90 335i, 05 E46 330i Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Arizona iTrader: (27) Garage List 2007 335i [0.00] 2005 330i [0.00]	Could the Procede control 2nd Injectors? So lets say hypothetically we had access to a secondary fuel rail that we could connect to our stock manifold. Would it be possible and how difficult would it be to implement secondary fuel injector control into the procede? I know the standback can do it. But would it be possible? And if it is, who has a spare manifold laying around that I can play with I'm assuming we'd need some sort of fuel controller that would take a signal from the tune regulating injector pulse duration etc. Any ideas here?
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11-12-2010, 11:03 PM	#2
Transport3r Major 86 Rep 1,262 Posts Drives: 2011 N55 E90 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Melbourne, FL iTrader: (4)	Sorry, DI noob here. But why? More fuel for BT applications? __________________ Josh-
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11-12-2010, 11:29 PM	#4
OpenFlash 1737 Rep 17,960 Posts Drives: A Lot Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: SF Bay, CA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2018 Ducati Panigal ... [0.00] 2016 Mazda CX5 [0.00] 2017 Aprilia Tuono ... [0.00] 2019 BMW M2 Competi ... [0.00] 2015 BMW M5 Competi ... [10.00] 2016 Ducati XDiavel S [0.00] 2016 AMG GT S [0.00] 2011 Ferrari 458 It ... [0.00] 2017 Charger Hellcat [0.00] 2015 KTM Super Duke ... [0.00] 2016 KTM RC390 [0.00]	It would be easy to drive a set of batch fired secondary injectors with the Procede. I haven't run additional injectors in any car for over a decade. But if there's a strong reason, we can make it happen.
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11-12-2010, 11:34 PM	#5
Bimmer This Major General 99 Rep 6,473 Posts Drives: 2007 BMW 335i Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Westminster iTrader: (3)	just take a page out if the Chevrolet C4 Corvette ZR1 book.
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11-13-2010, 12:49 AM	#8
klipseracer Banned 219 Rep 3,012 Posts Drives: 2007 E90 335i, 05 E46 330i Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Arizona iTrader: (27) Garage List 2007 335i [0.00] 2005 330i [0.00]	What would this require outside of the custom work to get the injectors into the manifold runners? Procede Injectors Fuel Rail Custom wire harness Fuel pump and hosing To be honest, anyone who is looking for a tune that provides future proofing, this is much more interesting than any of these other features being implemented. I remember when methanol wasn't popular. Now its everywhere. Lets make this the next solution Maybe I just have a spot in my heart for this from my DSM days. Last edited by klipseracer; 11-13-2010 at 12:57 AM..
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11-13-2010, 01:16 AM	#9
Jeff@TopGearSolutions 3441 Rep 79,211 Posts Drives: C6 Z06, 09 335i, 10 335xi Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: www.TopGearSolutions.com iTrader: (37)	I think with the limit of the fuel system for the 500WHP+ Market, this might be a better solution then using Methanol as a Band Aid for fuel...
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11-13-2010, 02:18 AM	#10
mwahlert Lieutenant Colonel 95 Rep 1,659 Posts Drives: 2009 335i Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: NC iTrader: (8)	i'm sure someone will produce a hpfp with increased volume delivery and larger injectors. this isn't the only DI turbo car on the market... there are upgraded HPFP's for the VWs and mazdaspeeds as well as injectors.
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11-13-2010, 05:59 PM	#15
bobbers114 Banned 0 Rep 51 Posts Drives: 335xi Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: fl iTrader: (0)	without another control box, no. but there are options out there, i believe AEm has one, maybe with that, but i would say no as currently configured
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11-13-2010, 06:15 PM	#16
Tiago@VRSF 2095 Rep 43,350 Posts Drives: F90 M5 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Doral, FL iTrader: (99) Garage List 2014 F30 328xi [0.00] 2015 F82 BMW M4 [0.00] 2013 Ducati 1199 Pa ... [0.00] 2008 BMW 335i [0.00]	The problem isn't just using additional injectors, you'd also need an additional fuel pump to supplement the second set of injectors. This is really only a band aid when people should actually be focusing on an upgraded mechanical FP or HPFP.
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11-15-2010, 04:46 AM	#20
Former_Boosted_IS Major General 307 Rep 5,175 Posts Drives: 4 Wheels Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Planet Earth! iTrader: (15)	Ignore anyone that hates Klips. They probably also don't realize the IS-F has an DI injection and an EFI fuel system to provide the needed additional fuel. Not only is it elegant, it is exactly what needs to happen to advance the N54.
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11-18-2010, 06:21 PM	#22
scalbert Major General 153 Rep 5,780 Posts Drives: '13 S4, '15 Q7 Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Woodstock, GA iTrader: (8)	Could it, yes. But it may require additional hardware unless they are batch fired and the current rating is enough for the output. That, or an additional box could be added. But at that point an external controller could be used and tuned for the additional injection.
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