Potential buyers - list your 'dealbreaker' items

[RandyB]

As we get closer to the final production car, there are still some important unknown details. Out of the information we have so far, and the rumors and speculation of the rest, what are the items and details that concern everyone the most? What is the one thing or list of things that could send you off in another direction?

I'm pretty picky when it comes to details, and I have several items on my list that concern me greatly. I will try to list them below starting with the most important and working down to the least important, although any one of them could be enough to send me away. Make no mistake, for the money there really is no other car that interests me more than the M3 does at this point, not even close. So with that in mind, I am hopeful that my concerns will all be for naught and I will have my M3 in good time.

1.) Sunroof - I don't want one. I realize many people do, but I think I should be able to buy a car without a hole in the roof. BMW has made this item standard equipment on most 3-series cars already. Fine, but allow a no-cost sunroof delete option for the purists like myself. I would be willing to pay extra to not have one if there was no other way. If I can't get one without a sunroof, I WILL pass. Period.

2.) Transmission/DSC - I'm one of those people who still likes a true manual transmission with a clutch. We already know that BMW will offer both a 6-speed manual and a 7-speed SMG transmission. What we don't know is if BMW will make the mistake of neutering the manual transmission cars (a la M5), and not allow for fully disabling the DSC. I'm hopeful that since the M3 is smaller and lighter than the M5, the same alleged driveline concerns will not be present and this will not happen again. If it does, I'm out.

3.) Color - I want to order one in a traditionally non-M color, Electric Red. This was possible with the E46 M3 (I even saw one for sale in ER) so hopefully it is still a possibility. The stipulation back then was that it could be any color that was currently present somewhere in the BMW line-up, but of course there would be an additional charge. I would still consider getting one in Imola Red, but only after I have tried in vain to get ER.

(Note) I didn't list I-drive or Active Steering here because it is not likely that either will be standard equipment, and Active Steering my not even be an option. I don't want either, and either would be dealbreakers.

Those three items are the most important to me. I have a few more concerns, but these are not as important and probably would not deter me from serious consideration.

1.) Exterior - I don't like the CG enhanced images from Autoweek with the license plate on the rear bumper. I think that would be a mistake. If they decide to do it that way, I will have to see what it looks like and make a decision. Hopefully, either way, it will be done nicely and will be acceptable. Everything else so far is a 'go'. If a CF roof is available or standard, make body color paint at least an option on the thing. That might be the one possible exterior dealbreaker for me.

2.) Wheels - I never was a fan of the partially polished 19" wheels on the E46 M3. I will be getting mine with the optional 19s if they are just silver painted. They can offer a polished wheel option if they want, just also make plain silver available.

That's about it for now - I can't think of anything else. Am I being unreasonable here? This is a car I want badly, but can also live without if one or more of my top three items doesn't work out to my liking. I will just lament that it was not meant to be if I get shut down on these things. But I am hopeful that things will fall perfectly into place, and I will have my first M car.

It will either be or for me.

[ILC32]

Outright dealbreakers for me (in no particular order):

Power to weight uncompetitive with RS4/911S.

Accelleration slower to 60 and .25 mile than RS4.

Price comparable to RS4 or higher.

Nurburgring time not better than RS4.

(Obviously I think the RS4 has established a new benchmark for this class of car.)

I am assuming the M3 will come with an SMG/DSG option and a LSD. If those items were not available, that would be a dealbreaker as well.

Things that may drive me to seriously consider other options but are not true dealbreakers in that I might get the car anyway:

No available CF roof.

No available EDC.

No available HUD.

Appearance too similar to 335 with sport or M package.

Performance not superior to chip tuned 335.

Basically this category for me dictates whether the M3 is "special" enough to warrant the premium over the 335.

[paulyd]

MSRP above $58ish

[devo]

My minimum requirements:

1) 426 BHP.
2) Less than 3500 lbs. (I will allow about 5% overage, on a good day.)
3) 0-60 under 4.4 sec. (It really should be 4.2) I am being generous by either standard!
4) 0-100 under 10.7 sec. (" " " 10.5)
5) LSD
6) Crossed drilled, ventilated, brake rotors, fore and aft.
7) Very aggressive traditional M treatments; large fender flares, sills and bumper fascia treatments.
8) Priced "well optioned" in the mid $60s (By well optioned, I mean 19" wheels, metallic paint, Prem. Pack., etc... it doesn't have to crazy options.)
9) The availabilty of a traditional manual gearbox.

Otherwise, I am going the 2008 997S route.

[jtown]

Originally Posted by chitown08

MSRP above $58ish

Don't hold your breath cause it might be very close. If it's $58.5k that's a deal breaker?

[Hans Delbruck]

I am always considering other cars , but the 2 things that will put me over the top are if BOTH:

The Out the door price is OVER $70K AND it has a 0-60 time OVER 4.5 seconds, or a rolling 5-60 time of 5.0 seconds or more.

The lower the price and faster the car is, the easier it makes my decision.

[BrianJA]

Originally Posted by jtown

Don't hold your breath cause it might be very close. If it's $58.5k that's a deal breaker?

He said "ish"

[swamp2]

I don't have any specific deal breakers. That being said I have not commited 100% to the car either. Power to weight, 0-60 and Nurburgring times are at the top of my list. Also I am considering a metric of performance to price ratio.

For those of you who MUST have ANY of the following:
HUD, CF roof, no sunroof, individual color, EDC

I think you better look elsewhere, it's that simple. I'd love to have HUD, EDC, CF (CF +sunroof, even as contradictory as that is) but I strongly suspect ALL of these will not be available. Reasons:
-HUD,EDC,CF - encroaching too much on M5/M6/CSL features
-Sunroof - probably just like all 3 series included as default (BTW I can't believe this is really a deal breaker!)

ICL32: Power to weight of 997S is quite a bit better than RS4, (see this post). I'm sure E92 M3 will trump P:W of RS4 and will probably be close to 997S, either a bit shy or perhaps a bit better.

[paulyd]

Originally Posted by BrianJA

He said "ish"

thanks for the support...

The higher the price goes, the more I will have to consider buying used which i'd rather not do for fear of abuse. At some point, spending >$60k on a car is just hard for me to swallow. Especially when you've just entered the workforce...

At 23 yrs old, investing $60k would yield $326,192.42 at a retirement age of 55. (Assuming 8% avg return for 22 yrs)

......but I want that sh*t now!

[jtown]

Originally Posted by chitown08

thanks for the support...

The higher the price goes, the more I will have to consider buying used which i'd rather not do for fear of abuse. At some point, spending >$60k on a car is just hard for me to swallow. Especially when you've just entered the workforce...

At 23 yrs old, investing $60k would yield $326,192.42 at a retirement age of 55. (Assuming 8% avg return for 22 yrs)

......but I want that sh*t now!

Oh oops. LOL. My bad.

Work hard ... play hard. Right?

[Last E92 M3]

Originally Posted by chitown08

thanks for the support...

The higher the price goes, the more I will have to consider buying used which i'd rather not do for fear of abuse. At some point, spending >$60k on a car is just hard for me to swallow. Especially when you've just entered the workforce...

At 23 yrs old, investing $60k would yield $326,192.42 at a retirement age of 55. (Assuming 8% avg return for 22 yrs)

......but I want that sh*t now!

seems a lot but i dont think i can wait lol...

[paulyd]

haha, make that $704,224.98!!!

turns out there are 32 years between the ages of 23 and 55 yrs old. (not 22 oops)

Glad I caught that before I got flamed...

and you guys thought $326,192 was alot...

[RandyB]

Originally Posted by swamp2

-Sunroof - probably just like all 3 series included as default (BTW I can't believe this is really a deal breaker!)

Believe it - it is fact. I can sooner live with a car that doesn't lap a certain track I wll never visit in under eight minutes, however. But it would be nice if it was under eight minutes.

I don't like sunroofs because they add extra weight at the highest point on the car, cut into headroom on the interior, and will require attention sooner or later. I'm a purist and just prefer simplicity and fewer moving parts whenever possible. I don't like the way they look either - they interupt the flow of the top panel.

It is also the principle of having something forced upon me that I feel should be optional. I think they will come through on this one and make it an option, or at least have a delete option if it is standard. If not, BMW will save me a lot of money.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by RandyB

Believe it - it is fact. I can sooner live with a car that doesn't lap a certain track I wll never visit in under eight minutes, however. But it would be nice if it was under eight minutes.

I don't like sunroofs because they add extra weight at the highest point on the car, cut into headroom on the interior, and will require attention sooner or later. I'm a purist and just prefer simplicity and fewer moving parts whenever possible. I don't like the way they look either - they interupt the flow of the top panel.

It is also the principle of having something forced upon me that I feel should be optional. I think they will come through on this one and make it an option, or at least have a delete option if it is standard. If not, BMW will save me a lot of money.

Of course, to each their own, and of course we are all entitled to spend our $ exactly as we see fit. That being said...

I myself have not yet visited the ring but probably will at some point. Of course the point is that this track in particular pushes the speed, braking and handling of any car to its limits. The time is obvisouly not for me but for me to have a wonderful capable car in which I will enjoy all of that capability on many different street and track locations.

Sure weight is bad and weight high is even worse. However there are so many places to save weight that to get so focused on the sunroof just seems a bit over the top. If you get it (again irrelavant since you won't buy with it) and are concerned about reliability just dont use it (note sunroof in my 1995 E36 M3 with 200k miles = no sunroof maintenance, problems, etc.). This begs the question as well. Will you refuse to buy a car with power windows or mirrors? Those WILL be forced on you as well!

Simplicity: Isn't it also a bit over the top as well to desire simplicity in a car as modern and complex as an E92 M3? The sunroof is hardly 1/1000th as complex as the motor!

Not trying to argue, I just sincerely hope you will enjoy this car despite it coming only with a sunroof. Like I said I wouldn't hold my breath.

[southlight]

Originally Posted by swamp2

I don't have any specific deal breakers. That being said I have not commited 100% to the car either. Power to weight, 0-60 and Nurburgring times are at the top of my list. Also I am considering a metric of performance to price ratio.

For those of you who MUST have ANY of the following:
HUD, CF roof, no sunroof, individual color, EDC

I think you better look elsewhere, it's that simple. I'd love to have HUD, EDC, CF (CF +sunroof, even as contradictory as that is) but I strongly suspect ALL of these will not be available. Reasons:
-HUD,EDC,CF - encroaching too much on M5/M6/CSL features
-Sunroof - probably just like all 3 series included as default (BTW I can't believe this is really a deal breaker!)

ICL32: Power to weight of 997S is quite a bit better than RS4, (see this post). I'm sure E92 M3 will trump P:W of RS4 and will probably be close to 997S, either a bit shy or perhaps a bit better.

Maybe some folks over at germancarzone have succesfully irritated you. But you shouldn't abandon hope, particularly referring CF roof and EDC. I still believe both is coming...
And your power/weight ratios do give a better P/W for the M3 than for 997S...

Best regards, south

[devo]

Originally Posted by swamp2

I don't have any specific deal breakers. That being said I have not commited 100% to the car either. Power to weight, 0-60 and Nurburgring times are at the top of my list. Also I am considering a metric of performance to price ratio.

For those of you who MUST have ANY of the following:
HUD, CF roof, no sunroof, individual color, EDC

I think you better look elsewhere, it's that simple. I'd love to have HUD, EDC, CF (CF +sunroof, even as contradictory as that is) but I strongly suspect ALL of these will not be available. Reasons:
-HUD,EDC,CF - encroaching too much on M5/M6/CSL features
-Sunroof - probably just like all 3 series included as default (BTW I can't believe this is really a deal breaker!)

ICL32: Power to weight of 997S is quite a bit better than RS4, (see this post). I'm sure E92 M3 will trump P:W of RS4 and will probably be close to 997S, either a bit shy or perhaps a bit better.

Just keep in mind that Porsche is rumored to give the 2008 MY 997S another 20 HP +/- and DI. It won't change the game much but will certainly keep the 997S very competitive. Price and weight will be the determining factors.

[Smoltz]

Originally Posted by m3racer

i just hope that the m3 will will have a the raw sports interior of the Aussie RS4 , im talking about those bucket recaros and that awesome wheel, but its gunna be like a 335i boring interior i just know it

Ill get one anyway, oh and btw i just had the new software from DTM loaded on my Rs4 its now 440bhp/329 Kw/450nm does that change anything?

Did you have before/after dynos done? I'd be curious to look at them if you have them. Please PM sine this is OT.

-Adam

[carnuts3]

Originally Posted by BrianJA

He said "ish"

I think the "ish" will be closer to $60 for the MSRP before options.

[jtown]

Originally Posted by m3racer

i just hope that the m3 will will have a the raw sports interior of the Aussie RS4 , im talking about those bucket recaros and that awesome wheel, but its gunna be like a 335i boring interior i just know it

Ill get one anyway, oh and btw i just had the new software from DTM loaded on my Rs4 its now 440bhp/329 Kw/450nm does that change anything?

Some people think the RS4 interior is crap ... well at least the US version. I think it marks the entire difference between Audi and BMW ... to each their own.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by southlight

Maybe some folks over at germancarzone have succesfully irritated you. But you shouldn't abandon hope, particularly referring CF roof and EDC. I still believe both is coming...
And your power/weight ratios do give a better P/W for the M3 than for 997S...

Best regards, south

Absolutely not. No one over there has irritated me at all. Not sure why you might think so. My thoughts about what the car may and may not come with are a synthesis of history, hunch, marketing, cost and rumor. Like I said I hope I am wrong about all of these EDC, CF, HUD. Only time will tell. Cheers.

[southlight]

Originally Posted by swamp2

Absolutely not. No one over there has irritated me at all. Not sure why you might think so. My thoughts about what the car may and may not come with are a synthesis of history, hunch, marketing, cost and rumor. Like I said I hope I am wrong about all of these EDC, CF, HUD. Only time will tell. Cheers.

No offense intended! We had the HUD question over there and I thought your estimation is also based on some "inside" information from there...
Let's hope for the moment... Cheers

[RandyB]

Everybody wants it under 3500 lbs, but they also want every gizmo known to modern man included. Can't have it both ways!

If they get the exhaust note just right, they don't even have to put a radio in mine!