[kamek]

Lately, I've developed an issue where I'm getting a shudder/vibration in my clutch when engaging 1st gear. I'm not getting a solid/crisp engagement anymore, but the rest of the gears engage fine. I'm catching 1st at slightly over 1k RPMs.

I have an 08 328xi with 34,XXX miles on it -- no real performance mods, and I don't drive the car hard. Could this be my clutch slipping? I'm not sure what "clutch slippage" feels like exactly, and I don't think the clutch could be going with that few miles on it.

Thanks for your help!

[T7R_Sky]

I have this too... I just assumed it was an uneven/worn flywheel or something. I just kind of ignore it. But if anyone has some real insight that would be great

[e90pilot]

Clutch slippage occurs when the clutch is worn to the point where it can't stay engaged. Basically, when you try to accelerate, the revs will go up but the car won't accelerate. What your experiencing is clutch chatter/judder. This happens when uneven deposit build-up on the flywheel causes to clutch disc to skip as it's engaging and is VERY common on all BMWs. If you live in a hilly area, it's even more common. It will come and go, but it will continue until you get both the flywheel and clutch replaced. It's not really a big deal. Try launching at 1200 rpm.

[kamek]

Originally Posted by e90pilot

Clutch slippage occurs when the clutch is worn to the point where it can't stay engaged. Basically, when you try to accelerate, the revs will go up but the car won't accelerate. What your experiencing is clutch chatter/judder. This happens when uneven deposit build-up on the flywheel causes to clutch disc to skip as it's engaging and is VERY common on all BMWs. If you live in a hilly area, it's even more common. It will come and go, but it will continue until you get both the flywheel and clutch replaced. It's not really a big deal. Try launching at 1200 rpm.

Thanks e90pilot.

I'll try engaging at a higher RPM. Is this something that the dealership can fix, or should I ignore it until it goes away?

[superduty]

Originally Posted by e90pilot

What your experiencing is clutch chatter/judder. This happens when uneven deposit build-up on the flywheel causes to clutch disc to skip as it's engaging and is VERY common on all BMWs.

Actually chatter is caused by hot spots on the flywheel surface that are harder than the surrounding material. Hot spots are caused by excessive slipping of the clutch usually during starting from a stop. As a result engagement of the clutch is not smooth because the hot spots "grab" the clutch disc as the clutch is engaged. Launching at a higher RPM hides the problem because the momentum of the flywheel over rides the grabbing of the friction material. The only way to eliminate chatter is to replace the clutch and flywheel (since the OE flywheel cannot be resurfaced). Driving the car hard does not necessarily result in the development of hot spots. Introducing excessive heat into the flywheel surface by slipping the clutch does it.

[kamek]

Originally Posted by superduty

Actually chatter is caused by hot spots on the flywheel surface that are harder than the surrounding material. Hot spots are caused by excessive slipping of the clutch usually during starting from a stop. As a result engagement of the clutch is not smooth because the hot spots "grab" the clutch disc as the clutch is engaged. Launching at a higher RPM hides the problem because the momentum of the flywheel over rides the grabbing of the friction material. The only way to eliminate chatter is to replace the clutch and flywheel (since the OE flywheel cannot be resurfaced). Driving the car hard does not necessarily result in the development of hot spots. Introducing excessive heat into the flywheel surface by slipping the clutch does it.

Are these "hot spots" temporary, or is this now a permanent problem for my clutch?

Does anyone know if warranty will cover this issue if it becomes excessive?

[e90pilot]

They are permanent. Those hot spots you're referring to are caused by deposits on the flywheel. As the clutch sweeps across the deposits, they heat up faster than the rest of the flywheel and are stickier as well. If you look at a flywheel that chatters, you'll see a lot of score marks on it. As flywheel warms up the temperature on whole surface will eventually become somewhat even, but of you ride the clutch a lot, like in stop and go traffic, it will get really bad.

[superduty]

e90 is correct. The flywheel must be ground to remove the spots or (in the case of our cars) replaced. The spots, however, are not "sticky". They are heat hardened areas and therefore do not wear as quickly as the surrounding metal. As a result, high spots form which is what causes the chatter. If you place a flywheel on a brake rotor surfacing machine, the cutting tip will slide over the hardened areas and will not cut these places. This is part of the reason resurfacing requires grinding. Plus enough material must be removed to make the flywheel surface homogeneous (all heat effected areas removed). The other reasons grinding is required are: 1) the outer edge of the flywheel wears more slowly than the inner because the closer you get to the crank centerline the faster the surface rotates and 2) grinding produces a non-directional finish. But as I said above, this is all academic for our BMWs.

[kamek]

Thanks for the info, guys. I guess all the NYC traffic I sit in has affected my clutch...

With all this said, does anyone know if BMW will cover it?

[jjw2331]

When was the last time you took your car in for service?
I have a 6mt 328i, and at 26,000 miles, I started to feel a severe shutter, especially during 1st gear starts. Almost as if the clutch had gone. But the clutch didn't slip in any gear and at different speeds (i.e. clutch test - 4th gear at 2,000rpm then flooring it) At 27,000 miles, my brake fluid light when on. Got it changed and somehow, the shutter is gone. I remember in my e46 the brake fluid and clutch hydraulics were sharing the same fluid. Get your car checked at the dealer. Your clutch may be fine. By the way I abuse my car.

[sredwine]

I had some clutch chatter only when pullling into my garage,which is at the top of a hill and requires a sharp right turn just before pulling into the doorway. Removing the CDV has almost completely cured it! I know it doesn't make much sense-I am fully in gear and clutch has been fully engaged for 2-4 seconds before the turn-the CDV may allow a mechanical oscillation to begin at the bottom of the hill-or it may just be causing abnormal heating due to extra slippage. My '07 328i has 60K miles.

[kamek]

Originally Posted by jjw2331

When was the last time you took your car in for service?
I have a 6mt 328i, and at 26,000 miles, I started to feel a severe shutter, especially during 1st gear starts. Almost as if the clutch had gone. But the clutch didn't slip in any gear and at different speeds (i.e. clutch test - 4th gear at 2,000rpm then flooring it) At 27,000 miles, my brake fluid light when on. Got it changed and somehow, the shutter is gone. I remember in my e46 the brake fluid and clutch hydraulics were sharing the same fluid. Get your car checked at the dealer. Your clutch may be fine. By the way I abuse my car.

My service isn't due for around 3k more miles. I guess I'll have to bring it up with the dealer!

Originally Posted by sredwine

I had some clutch chatter only when pullling into my garage,which is at the top of a hill and requires a sharp right turn just before pulling into the doorway. Removing the CDV has almost completely cured it! I know it doesn't make much sense-I am fully in gear and clutch has been fully engaged for 2-4 seconds before the turn-the CDV may allow a mechanical oscillation to begin at the bottom of the hill-or it may just be causing abnormal heating due to extra slippage. My '07 328i has 60K miles.

I've already removed my CDV. This problem is so annoying...

[itsbrokeagain]

the dual mass flywheel is what is doing the chattering. Its probably getting beat up from all the stop and go traffic.

If it gets really bad (i.e. loud clunking/jerking on decel/accel while in gear) then the rubber damper in the flywheel is shot. The dealer will probably replace it.

My 335 did it, your car does it, and my truck does it. Its normal. As mentioned before engage it around 1200 and it should be fine.

[gkroegman]

Mine does this as well, except I have an automatic with steptronic.
When I shift into reverse, it shudders but never slips or misbehaves otherwise.
As long as it isn't going to f*ck me when the vehicle reaches a higher mileage, I can live with it.

[avocet]

Changed my trans mounts to megan racing and the problem has gone away completely.

[Kenchinito]

is it mandatory to change the flywheel? or just the clutch is enough to fix this?

[doogee]

I just had to replace my flywheel with this same problem. Butter smooth again.

[tc535i]

shudder is usually a glazed flywheel not being able to grab the clutch solidly

[doogee]

Keep in mind Dual Mass Flywheels DO wear out. They aren't a solid chunk of metal. The springs inside wear and cause play.

[Phil325i]

Originally Posted by doogee

Keep in mind Dual Mass Flywheels DO wear out. They aren't a solid chunk of metal. The springs inside wear and cause play.

+1

OP this is your most likely cause. I know - it happened to me...

[drilla2212]

Man I'm having the same problem, I just did full suspension I don't really wanna do a clutch/flywheel. Maybe I'll order a lightweight and wait till it finally goes before tearing her apart.