[coopersim]

If I've left my car for a couple of days then come to start it and put it in to Drive, it seems very sluggish moving off for the first time, and takes a considerable amount of revs more than usual to get it moving, the brakes aren't binding and I don't use the handbrake when parked so I know it's not that stuck on.

I'm a bit worried as it seems like a transmission issue, and the car is coming to the end of its warranty - any ideas?

[coopersim]

Must just be my car then judging by the lack of response. I guess most people don't leave their cars in the garage for that long.

Might be a trip to BMW for this and several other little niggles prior to the March expiry of my warranty.

Cheers anyway

[ehayes]

I have the same problem (mine is E91 325d Auto, 2007). First drive of the day the car seems "stuck" and needs 2000rpm+ to get it moving at all - as if the brakes have seized. However, even after I've got it out of the garage a similar problem persists. It is most noticeable when pulling away from a standstill in traffic (taking it easy). When the traffic starts moving I rev the engine gently and the car barely moves. Have to get it up to around 2000rpm before the car really gets going. It is fairly subtle, but it is definitely not right. I find that either I have to rev the car more than I really think it should need in order to keep up with other traffic (to the point where pedestrians occasionally give me that "what are you revving about" look), or alternatively I keep the revs at a sensible (quiet) level and the car very slowly rolls off (but with a noticeable gap between me and the cars in front, and frustrated drivers behind!). Makes driving in traffic a little uncomfortable.

My last car was a 2001 330d Auto (E46). To a great extent I consider this to be the predecessor to the E91 325d - very similar spec - but that car had masses more pull at low revs from a standing start. Much more drivable in traffic...

With the E91 it seems that the auto box just doesn't transfer to torque to the wheels until you rev it. The low end torque is lost (though oddly it's there once you are going - if you accelerate upwards from around 30-40mph without flooring it, you get quite good pull without working the engine too hard.

Just took the E91 to BMW main dealer (under used car Warranty). They say they can't fault it... I'm wondering if it is just a particularly annoying feature of this model. Won't be keeping it long if it is!

Anyone else had similar?

[coopersim]

I find your write up very interesting, especially as we have the same engine!

Mine currently is only a problem when the car is stone cold and has been left for 24 hours, I'm hoping it doesn't get any worse, now being out of warranty it could turn in to a big job

[ehayes]

Am just about to go back to BMW and go for a test drive with an engineer to try to convince him that I'm not bonkers! I've had the car only about 5 weeks and have been generally quite surprised about how 'fly by wire' it seems. A really lack of connection between my actions and how the car responds. At any speed I notice very subtle changes in the way it pulls even when I haven't moved the accelerator at all - as if the car itself is decided exactly how fast I want to go (though only by only 1-2mph - very subtle). Have searched a lot of other forums and can't find anyone else with the same sluggish pulling away problem. I was assuming it was transmission related (may be something basic like lack of fluid in the auto box? though can't claim any technically knowledge here), but I'm wondering if I have an ECU gremlin.... I've got 10.5 months of warranty to run so at least I have some time to sort it - just need to convince BMW that it really is a problem!

[coopersim]

I'd say that sounds like it's an engine management issue, maybe running in "limp mode". Yours certainly sounds worse than mine!

[ehayes]

BMW mechanic confirmed they checked ECU etc and all OK. He gave me personal opinion that the 325d just isn't tuned this way - says I shouldn't expect a lot of low end torque at this speed... I am not impressed. They have agreed to do a software upgrade just in case that helps, but otherwise I'm going to have to get used to it, or upgrade to a 330d/335d... Amazing!

Am I the only person who finds the 325d lacking torque in this way? I appreciate that it is tuned less than the 330/335 for improved economy but am amazed that they had to compromise so much at the bottom end...


:-(

[coopersim]

My 325d Auto is amazing! I love it, apart from this odd problem it's the best car I've ever owned.

[I6Touring]

coopersim, my simplistic and unsubstantiated theory is that a torque converter is less efficient when the transmission fluid is very cold due to that fluid flowing more slowly, so less of it gets centrifugally dispersed to the outer part of the converter to push it round for a given engine speed.

My previous, non-BM, auto was significantly less direct when cold, but I find the 325i more consistent.

[BanziBarn]

My auto is a bit slushy when cold, I'd always assumed it was just the fluid temp.

It sorts it's self out quite quickly though.

[chris_s1]

A couple of times my 325d auto has got 'stuck' on the drive, just like the brakes were rusted stuck, even though the handbrake wasn't applied. Had to give it a really good poke to make it move at all. But once it moved no problem.

I've felt that the car uses a bit more revs when very cold, almost like the clutch is slipping a little (if it were a manual of course), always but it down to fluid temp. Never lasts more than about 30 seconds though.

I've never thought it was lacking in low down torque, in fact quite the opposite. You should drive another one to see if yours is different. Mechanics will say anything to get you to stop complaining!

[BGM]

no i love my 325d, runs just purdy :P

[c-hri-s]

See this thread:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=517167

Perhaps a more common problem than we first thought?

Mine is now out of warranty (by a month), but it's been doing it for ages. I've got an extended warranty, would love someone to get to the bottom of this so that I can get it fixed if required.

[scottc]

Mine is the same, when the car is cold it feels like the clutch is slipping but once warm it's fine. Think it must be something that 325's do..

[ehayes]

Mine does exactly the same after parked for a day or two - sticks as if the brakes are seized, but is OK after a good blip of revs to get it moving.

I can live with that as it's only a brief issue. However I've still got the ongoing problem will pulling away in low revs - feeling like the car needs more revs than it should - I have to work harder than I feel I should just to keep up with traffic. This problem is worse when cold, but is always there even when fully warmed up. Is notable that my wife agrees with me whenever she drives it (and she's not normally very fussy about these things).

The dealer has now done a software upgrade to the latest version and confidently told me "it is now much better". I even quizzed him "Are you sure". He replied "Absolutely - the upgrade has completed sorted it out, it's much better". Not sure what he expects from a car, but when I got in it I was shocked. It was as if it was set on a harsh sport mode - preferring to stay on lower gears at high revs rather than shift up (it is an Auto). Really uncomfortable and really hard work to drive smoothly in traffic - really aggressive. On calling BMW again, he could only say "bring it back and we'll have another look". I suggested that it might be something to do with the car 'learning' my driving style. I'm wondering if the software upgrade has defaulted to a very aggressive set of parameters and if I drive it for a while it may settle (he jumped at this... predictably...). I'm told by friends to expect it to take about 40 miles to settle to my driving style properly - can anyone confirm roughly how long I should expect? Have done about 30 miles so far and it is mellowing somewhat, but still not 100%, and the original problem is still there.

I'm looking for another 325d to try as a comparison (as suggested by chris_s1 - thanks) also, but to be honest, I can't believe anyone would want to drive one which runs like mine - if they are all the same I can't believe BMW would sell many.

What really hurts is that I bought this car after only the briefest test drive on the basis that my previous 330d (2001, E46) was lovely, and this car (on paper) is very similar (bhp/torque) so I assumed it would be similar + I trusted BMW's reputation. Hmm...

Am at the point where I think I'm either going to pay a specialist to remap it to try to get low end torque, or just trade it in and consider an Audi...... Don't like the remap idea (it still has 10 months used car warranty to run so would really have to wait that out first), and I'm also concerned about engine damage. So if BMW can't sort it I'm going hunting (might try a newer 330d first, but really not impressed with service from by dealer so not my first choice).

[chris_s1]

Whereabouts in the UK are you? Its a big ask for someone else to let you drive their car but I'm sure someone will at least let you in for a passenger ride for comparison.

There must be a fault somewhere. Whilst I know the clutch slip feeling people are talking about, for me it never lasts more than the distance it takes me to get out of my estate, which is about 600 yards. And even then, it feels like the car is automatically giving it more beans to compensate for the effect, it don't have to work the accelerator harder. And if I give it more gas, it flies along like normal.

I had a 325i auto as a courtesy car for a few days a while back - that was exactly the same behaviour from cold as mine.

That said - get it remapped anyway - its a much better car afterwards.

[ehayes]

chris_s1 - thanks. I'm in Colchester.

Nearest BMW dealer with one is 60 miles away.

Bit of a long-shot, but if anyone happens to live in or near Colchester and would be willing to let me sit as a passenger for 10 minutes I would be delighted, as it would certainly help me get to the bottom of this.

Thinking more about a remap - does anyone know if remaps can affect the way the auto clutch works? I've had differing views both ways. Two remap companies I spoke to said "No", so I'm inclined to agree with them, but another garage I've used (and trust) told me that the Ecu actually does control some elements of the auto clutch as well so in principle a remap could change the way the clutch operates as well... I'm thinking this way as to me it doesn't feel like the engine itself lacks torque, as at higher speeds and gears I get plenty of torque at low revs (around 1000-1300) - it's just in 1st/2nd gear from pull away or very slowly it's lacking. It's as if the auto clutch isn't engaging properly

[BGM]

my 325d did this on saturday when i came to move it after a day of nothingness...

it's rare for me to not use the car each day, fucking annoying to be honest!!

[MEGA]

Sounds like the EGR thermostat possibly? So car isn't realising it's up to temp and therefore holding power back.

MAF sensor on the way out could cause it but not intermittantly. It'd always be like that if it was the maf.

Plethora of issues to be fair. Best bet taking it to Birds in West London rather than back to the bmw monkies another 20 times. I understand you've got the extended warranty but probably still cheaper in the long run after the 20 return trips to BMW heh.

[coopersim]

Sorry to drag this one up, and thanks for those who've contributed already. My car is now three months out of warranty and the issue is getting worse. Luckily, as I've raised it with the dealer before the warranty expired, they've agreed to look at it under the terms of the warranty.

Here is a note I've written for the technician, can anyone see similarities with their issue here?


Procedure to follow to replicate lack of drive pickup from cold


1. Car must be left for minimum of 24 hours AND overnight for this to work
2. Car must be on level surface
3. Hand brake is not left on, car is in Park at this time
4. Start engine, engage reverse and attempt to move off immediately
5. Increase revs to 2k and note hesitation in moving - this will last for around 5 seconds. During this time the car will move very little. The effect feels like oil from the transmission has drained in to a sump(?) This is not a problem when the car is left only overnight or for a short period.

6. Repeat test after leaving car for around an hour and note difference.

7. Ambient air temperature / weather conditions have no effect on this.

Please make sure the same technician completes both tests to ensure the difference is noted.

[I6Touring]

Originally Posted by coopersim

4. Start engine, engage reverse and attempt to move off immediately

Only in reverse? I ask as 'cos I've not experienced this issue, but only ever pull away in D after leaving the car for any length of time.

[coopersim]

I've only ever tried this in reverse - hence me telling them to try in reverse. The reason is I always pull up in forwards, then have to reverse out. I will try in forwards next though to see if it's any different!