[logik06g35]

I know I get shot for making this thread, on teh g35 forum these threads were constantly posted and definatly annoying...but im sorry lol, im about to buy the car and there are some things I really need to know.

But is the MT actually Faster then the auto, keep in mind im talking about a driver who KNOWS how to driver an MT. I'm sure if there is a difference is very small but im just curious.

Alot of the arguments on the g35 forum were because there is actually a torque diffrence between the auto and mt so people would say that performance is actually exactly the same.

I do also know that turbo cars love an auto thats another reason im asking.

But seriosly at the end of the day, an excellent driver, driving an MT vs an auto, who would really win?

I see people posting times of like 13.2-13.4 for the 335i with an auto, which would mean that if the mt is indeed the faster car that its doing better then those numbers, which to me is a little insane.

[teknochild]

all things equal (besides the tranny) hell yes the manual is faster

[2009BMW335]

Originally Posted by teknochild

all things equal (besides the tranny) hell yes the manual is faster

AT is faster. my proof? i have AT

[teknochild]

someone pm rixter

[2009BMW335]

Originally Posted by teknochild

someone pm rixter

huh?

[IMJUSS2NASTY]

The 335I is one fine machine. The automatic transmission is so refined that it would be faster than a manual. However, a experienced driver will always out do a automatic.

[FirstClass]

Originally Posted by IMJUSS2NASTY

The 335I is one fine machine. The automatic transmission is so refined that it would be faster than a manual. However, a experienced driver will always out do a automatic.

Originally Posted by teknochild

all things equal (besides the tranny) hell yes the manual is faster

Sorry guys, but I'm going to have to disagree based on what I've seen posted here. The manual is just as fast (not faster) as the auto in the 335i, but you have to launch perfectly and shift flawlessly and quickly every time and even then you bring the turbos down with every shift. (Not a huge deal with such small turbos though) So the manual can be as fast as the auto driven by a skilled driver but the auto is better since it flawlessly and effortlessly matches the best an MT with good driver can put up. No missed shifts or money shifts in an auto either. So the long and short of it is that unless you're a professional driver an auto is going to be the better performance choice.

[canucklion]

for average drivers, AT would probably be faster since it doesn't require a 'perfect launch' as you would with a MT

[ctgazer]

yea, i would have to agree...for the everyday driver, probably an auto is faster with more precise launches and shifts bear in mind this is from a standstill...

from a rolling start, they would be the same, since they are the same car obviously

[canucklion]

and I just have to mention

there are tonnes of AT vs MT threads over here too, not just over the g35 forum

[fueledbymetal]

Originally Posted by FirstClass

So the long and short of it is that unless you're a professional driver an auto is going to be the better performance choice.

There's more to performance than straight-line accelration. The absence of a torque converter and the ability to skip gears will always make the manual the "better performance choice".

[teknochild]

Originally Posted by FirstClass

Sorry guys, but I'm going to have to disagree based on what I've seen posted here. The manual is just as fast (not faster) as the auto in the 335i, but you have to launch perfectly and shift flawlessly and quickly every time and even then you bring the turbos down with every shift. (Not a huge deal with such small turbos though) So the manual can be as fast as the auto driven by a skilled driver but the auto is better since it flawlessly and effortlessly matches the best an MT with good driver can put up. No missed shifts or money shifts in an auto either. So the long and short of it is that unless you're a professional driver an auto is going to be the better performance choice.

first off i said all things equal, the auto in the 335 has much higher gear ratios than the manual

second speed isnt even the half of the reason why a manual is a performance option in the first place, your still wrong about the manual not being faster, but for just a second lets pretend your right

autos are called slush boxes for a reason, you hit the gas, it takes a second for the power to start being transfered, you let off the gas, it takes a second for deceleration, theres no way your going to be able to make the quick and subtle throttle adjustments required required at the edge of grip

next, you STILL dont have total control over the auto, floor it and its going to downshift on you, if your approaching a corner you plan on taking as fast as you can and you know that coming out your going to be in a higher gear, most people will shift before they enter the corner, cant do that with the auto because it will downshift the second you floor it, and if your barely holding on, bye bye you go

i assume since your debating the speed of the two that performance driving is important to you, in which case the manual is the ONLY choice

dont get me wrong there are manuals out there that dont suffer from these types of things and are way better than manuals, but unless it comes in a 250k$ ferrari, its not one of them

[RiXst3r]

Originally Posted by teknochild

someone pm rixter

sorry I'm late...

Both the MT and the AT will get similar times in the 1/4 mile and 0-60. and if you are not the best MT driver, then there is a good chance you could get smoked by an AT driver, since he is always going to be in the correct gear.

The AT tranny has 2% more driveline loss according to BMW, but of course, this is ussually made up for by the faster shifts, and the fact that boost is held between shifts.

As you start modding the car, the MT will become faster than the AT, because the 2% gap will get larger.

technically, yes, the MT is "faster", but in real life scenarios, they have come to be pretty much equal.

Originally Posted by teknochild

autos are called slush boxes for a reason, you hit the gas, it takes a second for the power to start being transfered, you let off the gas, it takes a second for deceleration, theres no way your going to be able to make the quick and subtle throttle adjustments required required at the edge of grip

next, you STILL dont have total control over the auto, floor it and its going to downshift on you, if your approaching a corner you plan on taking as fast as you can and you know that coming out your going to be in a higher gear, most people will shift before they enter the corner, cant do that with the auto because it will downshift the second you floor it, and if your barely holding on, bye bye you go

I would have to disagree abou the slush box statement... the 335i's torque converter is FULLY LOCKED a few milliseconds after takoff, this is one of the new features of the 2007 tranny. This means that throttle response is a lot closer to what you feel in a manual (only while in DS or M mode). This is why some people have complained that driving in DS mode can be "jerky" becuase you feel all the shifts, similar to SMG.

You CAN have full control over the auto, floor it, and it WILL NOT downshift, unless you are in D or DS, or if you hit the kickdown. Drive in M mode, and you have full control. The 335 AT tranny can also do DIRECT multiple shifts(shift from 5th to 3rd in 130ms!)

tecknochild... go test drive a 335 auto in M mode, and you will see what I mean...

my 2c... I am done in this thread, these points do not need argued, they have already been beaten to death.

If your doubting it just because you always have hated AT's, then here is a technical document describing how they accomplish the new feel of the 335 AT. Yes, it ACTUALLY HAS NEW TECHNOLOGY IN IT

pictures and diagrams straight from the horses mouth...
http://www.zf-mediacenter.de/sea_vie...7&pos=0&lang=e

[NaViT]

this is Rixst3r's favorite topic... it might keep going and going

[teknochild]

Originally Posted by RiXst3r

tecknochild... go test drive a 335 auto in M mode, and you will see what I mean...

i did test drive it, it does downshift, and it is still a slush box

[RiXst3r]

Originally Posted by teknochild

i did test drive it, it does downshift, and it is still a slush box

operator error, learn how to drive a step

It WILL NOT downshift in M mode, and it does not feel slushy in M mode

You dont even own a 335 yet, and your finding ways to kill time until it gets here by trying to bash the AT... get a life

Your comment is like me saying "I drove the MT, it shifted horribly, mis-shifed all the time, and was very slow"

Learning to drive the AT in M mode is way easier than the MT, but it still takes some getting used to. (#1 rule, stay out of the kickdown button)

[RiXst3r]

Originally Posted by NaViT

this is Rixst3r's favorite topic... it might keep going and going

I already said that technically the manual is faster...

This is tecknochilds favorite topic, he posted first...

[new2the3]

is that also true for the 06 330i step?

[RiXst3r]

Originally Posted by new2the3

is that also true for the 06 330i step?

no, it does not have the new tranny.

You do not have...

quick (125ms) shifts
direct double shifts
quick torque converter lock-up
rev-matching on downshifts
Less % loss to the wheels.
paddle shifters.
6% better gas mileage

This tranny is only on 335i's
READ: http://www.zf-mediacenter.de/sea_vie...7&pos=0&lang=e

[logik06g35]

well i did test drive the auto, and all i really got to do was play with "tiptronic" feature quickly, but like an idiot i really didnt pay attention to how the AT reacts, because i was so worried about the rest of the car. As far as M mode what exactly is this? From what it sounds like, in M mode you have to perform all the shifts by yourself?

My main gripe with autos, especially the ones that have the tiptronic kind of feature is everytime you try to shift with these junk trannys there is a sick delay which slows you down amazingly. Im guessing from what ive read so far that the new 6 speed in the beemer is quite different and reacts when you tell it to if you have it in the M mode.

But as far as straight line performance goes it seems like no matter how good the driver of the MT car is, the auto will probably be exactly the same.

Thanks for the replys
Rocco

[Grumpy514]

Rally driver = Outdo an auto

Everyday driver. The AT is going to be faster. Its sooooo smooooth while shifting.

[logik06g35]

LOL thank but i dont care about everyday driving I mean lets say i take this thing to english town and wanna run the 1/4 mile.

keep in mind im very good at driving an MT.