[parapaul]

Driving home late the other night, I thought I'd take advantage of the empty and wet roads to *ahem* explore the limits of the car's handling... I pressed the DTC button, thinking that since it was the first time I'd tried this going the whole hog and disabling DSC completely was probably a silly idea...

Well, I found a nice big roundabout, with perfect entry and exit opportunities, nice smooth tarmac, nice wide lanes just in case... Auto box into manual, and accelerated onto the roundabout. Steered to the right and squeezed the throttle just a little harder than necessary, and the back end started to break away beautifully

For about a second I was loving it - completely under control, exactly where I had planned to be, and just starting to give it a bit of opposite lock, when (I presume) the DSC decided that I had had enough fun, and

BLAM!, it was as if I'd hit a lamppost side on, the reaction was so violent

I had to hang on to the wheel as the back of the car whipped around behind me to my right, then back to the left, and again, and again, until I was back on course. I was shaking as I turned all the driver aids back on and drove home very steadily...

I think I perhaps need to find somewhere to explore it a bit more - was I expecting too much without disabling the DSC completely?

[DavS1]

I thinkso yes...I would have turned it fully off and had another go!

[chesney72]

Originally Posted by DavS1

I thinkso yes...I would have turned it fully off and had another go!

+1

Just one press is enough if you want to be able to nail it everwhere and have a little fun nut if its full scale sideways you need it fully off or it just interferes too much.

Big wide wet roundabouts are great fun though

[Vaheed1]

Get yourself on a big empty car park

[TikoV]

It's scary I know...Reminds me of the time when I just bought my M3 in 2005. After driving like Miss Daisy for a couple of thousand miles to get accustomed to it, I thought I'd fully disable traction control. BIG BIG mistake.

[toxicnerve]

Doesn't sound right to me.

DSC activations shouldn't cause such a violent reaction and IME they don't.

The rear should have broken away, as you say, then when the system decided enough was enough it should have just taken away power and applied a little braking to the slipping wheel(s).

I don't see why it should have caused the snaking you experienced. When I've had DSC/DTC activations I've found the car just pulls itself back into line and then hands controls back over.

All bets are off if your entry and subsequent application of throttle was overly aggressive/violent to begin with though.

[briers]

It does sound a little odd, when I've done this and the back end comes out it subtly pulls back in again. With dsc fully off the difference is dramatic it lets go so easily. Maybe the combination of the wet road and too much power made it panic. Only takes a tiny squirt to get the back out.

[dxb335d]

I ain't a fan of DSC and T/C.

Last summer I had my car it was completely off every journey.

However, you will need to be on the ball.

Get some practise for sure first dude.

[parapaul]

I will - just need to find sensible opportunities until I get a feel for what the car's going to do.

Originally Posted by toxicnerve

All bets are off if your entry and subsequent application of throttle was overly aggressive/violent to begin with though.

I don't think it was - the back end stepped out nice and steadily, and once I started to slide I deliberately kept the throttle constant. More practice needed

Edit: How strange would it look if you saw an estate car drifting around a roundabout?

[LexS]

Find a big empty area, turn off all the toys and throw it in properly to find the cars limits and work from there

Nothing worse than thinking the car will react one way and it acts completely different when you've got curbs and lamp posts jumping out at you.

[parapaul]

Originally Posted by LexS

Find a big empty area, turn off all the toys and throw it in properly to find the cars limits and work from there

Nothing worse than thinking the car will react one way and it acts completely different when you've got curbs and lamp posts jumping out at you.

Therein lies the problem... After work today would be ideal, except all the roads are bone dry again

Fingers crossed for more rain before I finish!

[LexS]

Its safer in the dry as when you let off it all stops rather than sliding out into solid things. The tyres won't share the same opinion mind...

[ibanezking]

never had my 335d do that

Whack it into a corner............ DSC kicks in and steadies things and off you go

Never had a cars version of a "tankslapper"!

[zltm089]

Originally Posted by parapaul

Driving home late the other night, I thought I'd take advantage of the empty and wet roads to *ahem* explore the limits of the car's handling... I pressed the DTC button, thinking that since it was the first time I'd tried this going the whole hog and disabling DSC completely was probably a silly idea...

Well, I found a nice big roundabout, with perfect entry and exit opportunities, nice smooth tarmac, nice wide lanes just in case... Auto box into manual, and accelerated onto the roundabout. Steered to the right and squeezed the throttle just a little harder than necessary, and the back end started to break away beautifully

For about a second I was loving it - completely under control, exactly where I had planned to be, and just starting to give it a bit of opposite lock, when (I presume) the DSC decided that I had had enough fun, and

BLAM!, it was as if I'd hit a lamppost side on, the reaction was so violent

I had to hang on to the wheel as the back of the car whipped around behind me to my right, then back to the left, and again, and again, until I was back on course. I was shaking as I turned all the driver aids back on and drove home very steadily...

I think I perhaps need to find somewhere to explore it a bit more - was I expecting too much without disabling the DSC completely?

PLUS ONE ...happened to me about 6-7 times since I got the car....


and the last time I only had DTC off.....but it was wet.....the rear was fcukin vicious and lost control for like half a second.....and I applied the throttle gently!....but I was in DS mode....I believe it would be a little bit easier if it was a proper manual gearbox with normal tyres...

[The_Bear_Yid]

This may not be the case on your car, or you already may know but:

Did you press the DTC button or hold it for 3 seconds?

As on mine, that does different things. Pressing it activates DTC for poor weather conditions and holding it de-activates DSC (iirc).

Edit:

I realise that is probably stating the obvious lol.

[toxicnerve]

Originally Posted by The_Bear_Yid

This may not be the case on your car, or you already may know but:

Did you press the DTC button or hold it for 3 seconds?

As on mine, that does different things. Pressing it activates DSC for poor weather conditions and holding it de-activates DTC (iirc).

Edit:

I realise that is probably stating the obvious lol.

Other way round.

A short press activates DTC (DSC restricted) - the car will now allow a small amount of slip & slide before it takes action to correct.

A press and hold (can't remember if it's 3 or 10 seconds) deactivates DSC completely - you're own your own now. The car will not intervene regardless of how severe the slide is.

[The_Bear_Yid]

That's the one. I knew I should've looked in my Handbook.

It's 3 seconds, I got that right lol.

[ibanezking]

Originally Posted by toxicnerve

Other way round.

A short press activates DTC (DSC restricted) - the car will now allow a small amount of slip & slide before it takes action to correct.

A press and hold (can't remember if it's 3 or 10 seconds) deactivates DSC completely - you're own your own now. The car will not intervene regardless of how severe the slide is.

thats right

and the default position - whenever the ignition turns on - is for it to be FULLY ON............... so for a new driver just getting in the car - its in its safest state!

[m1bjr]

DSC whilst smart, cannot control the steering wheel.

And I wouldn't play about in the wet, the grip levels can change dramtically in inches on wet roads.

Far safer in the dry, and the recovery is far snappier as is braking ability if you get out of shape.

Do you see pro drifters running in the wet?



Steve

[chrismanchr]

everyone said the old e30 325i was tail happy and verging on dangerous ,I had one and loved it ,i used to slide it everywhere ,but when i bought a 330i e46 they said they'd tamed the tail happy nature ,but if you turned off the dsc it was very tail happy and not as controlable as the old e30 ,now ive got a e92 325i ,which some of you my critise as being abit slow ,well it feels faster and smoother than my old e46 ,218bhp but lighter ,verses 221bhp but one thing that impress's me is the handling ,dsc off the dramatic oversteer quailty of the e30 and e46 seem to be gone ,with just a touch of a slide now and again when pushing hard

[toxicnerve]

I really want to experiment a bit with DSC fully off but the public highway is just not the place to do it (imo).

There's way too much street furniture and banging a kerb could do some serious damage to a wheel/suspension components.

Not to mention other road users!

Where are all the 10,000sq/m open areas of fresh tarmac?

[leetennis]

I don't profess to be any better at drifting than anyone else and I'm sure someone will be able to explain the theory better.
I think the "tank slapper" is induced by over correction after over correction. As someone mentioned earlier dtc/dsc has no influence over your steering angle so until the car is at what the software deems manageable speed you can have all sort of shapes. I guess it possible that the dtc found you a slighty higher level of grip by slowing down certain wheel speed correcting lateral movement and producing more linear motion however this didnt match the wheel angle chucking you back into another slide.
As mj1br suggested unpredictable levels of grip and changing levels of grip will require a different steering angle vs wheel speed vs lateral vs linear direction to maintain your slide. If you want to maintain a slide and dtc wants you back to linear you start squabbling and over correcting one another.
Watch this clip, great example of car control and ease coming out of a slide but equally you can see how he can get a tank slapper going if he/she didn't match the two axels up at the right time.

I may not be spot on here but it's what I can grasp what happened from my level of understanding