[Le Chef]

I can't find anything that tells me what the real differences are between the normal 8-speed box and the "Sport" 8-speed box. i.e. the speed of gear changes is the same, gear ratio's are the same, shift patterns are the same. The only apparent difference seems to be the addition of paddle shifters - is that correct?

[silverforumsurf]

and you get dynamic driving control possibly I heard?...

[Le Chef]

So no actual difference between the "standard" 8-speed gearbox and the "sport" 8-speed gearbox, correct?

[Nahoa]

I,m not aware of a sport transmission. The 8-speed has a sport mode that modifies shift timing.

[Le Chef]

Both the brochure and the US website refer to two gearboxes: a "sport" version and an unnamed version presumably called "normal", but give no clues as to the differences (other than a heavy dose of BMW marketing and some flappy paddles) between them.

[Nahoa]

Hmmm, still not sure about that. I have a 35i with the Sport Package. Pretty sure the transmission is the same. It dies ave Sport and Manual modes as well as the paddles.

[mole7374]

Gents -

It is absolutely the same transmission, but it definnitely is setup differently...and non of that has anything to do with the dynamic handling package...DHP ONLY affects the suspension....nothing to do with the tranny. The differences are in the electronics and how its programmed...that's it...there are no internal differences, only how the computer is setup around the tranny

In the 35i with SAP it's called "sport automatic". The differences:

--paddle shifters
--top speed raised from 130 to 150
--shift points are different via electronically controlled setup in computer
--on the 35i ONLY....the sport auto tranny gives you the "sport/normal" toggle switch which gives you the ability to change between normal/sport/sport+ modes via idrive. This is called dynamic driving control. What this does is gives you the ability to change the throttle response, steering, and chassis stiffness NOTE: this is not a DHP thing so please don't debate...DHP is completely different and separate than DDC...this has been discussed all over the place. DHP is active dampening...sport/sport+ on 35i does 100% provide chassis/suspension mods just not active dampening. Anyone who disagrees should read the car's user manual...it's right in there.

[mspringer]

mole 7374

Could you elaborate on what those suspension/chassis changes are that occur on going to sport and sport+ in an SAP only equipped car, and how they're accomplished without active dampers.

Thanks.
Marty

[mole7374]

Originally Posted by mspringer

mole 7374

Could you elaborate on what those suspension/chassis changes are that occur on going to sport and sport+ in an SAP only equipped car, and how they're accomplished without active dampers.

Thanks.
Marty

Man this topic has been so documented that I honestly don't want to go and rehash everything in this thread...but please take a look and search for the other threads on DHP......DHP is proably the most misunderstood thing within the new X3 and DHP is NOT solely responsible for the chassis mods...DHP is for "active dampening"....and yes that results in chassis stiffening, but chassis stiffening and active dampening are two different things. What I am talking about is "dynamic driving control" and not "active dampening". Dynamic driving control is absolutely what is including with a 35i with SAP. Dynamic Driving Control absolutely changes the throttle,steering,chassis setup...other users have been reporting and one user even took a photo of his non-dhp 35i w/SAP that had the idrive screen showing chassis setup.

Have you read the owners manual yet? If not I've attached it and please read. Go to page 89 and you will get the breakdown from the horses mouth. Page 88 says "dynamic dampening control" and page 89 says "dynamic driving control".....two different things. If you are trying to match this back to options when building your x3 via the configurator: Page 88 (dampening control) is the DHP option, Page 89 (dynamic driving control) is referring to the 35i SAP sport tranny.

[mspringer]

I have read all of the threads, have test driven multiple X3s, both 28i &35i, with base, SAP only, SAP + DHP packages. I spent several hours with my CA, who is an ex-BMW mechanic and enthusiast trying to sort this out, including having conversations with BMW (it's been impossible to get straight story from them) and the official story is still clear as mud. I'm not trying to rehash the arguments from the other threads but simply don't understand how, without any active suspension components, going into sport mode on as SAP only car can change chassis stiffness. I agree the there is a chassis setting in I-drive on an SAP only car which is supposed to program the sport setting but felt no significant chassis difference when I tried sport mode, this is in contrast to a DHP equipped car where the difference was immediately noticeable.

I'll be at the annual NJ CCA meeting at BMWNA next month hope to get a 'official' explanation. I do have a 35i with SAP + DHP scheduled for early July delivery. Ordered it that way because I felt DHP, but not SAP only, made a real difference in chassis control.

[Le Chef]

So back to the gearbox then...Is the programing between the two boxes really different from just knocking the shifter over to sport? I drove a 28 and 35 yesterday and both had a sport setting, but neither model had SAP and no paddles. So what are the real programming differences between the "Sport" 8-speed gearbox and the "Normal" 8-speed gearbox?

[torzeck]

[QUOTE=mspringer;9656103]I have read all of the threads, have test driven multiple X3s, both 28i

[Razel]

Originally Posted by Le Chef

So back to the gearbox then...Is the programing between the two boxes really different from just knocking the shifter over to sport? I drove a 28 and 35 yesterday and both had a sport setting, but neither model had SAP and no paddles. So what are the real programming differences between the "Sport" 8-speed gearbox and the "Normal" 8-speed gearbox?

First, it's the same transmission. IOW, same part number. The programming on shift-points is what is different. In sport mode, the transmission shifts up at higher RPM's, for example. Downshift points are different as well. In normal mode, you get to 8th gear. Sport mode keeps you in 7th (don't know if it shifts up to 8th after peak RPM in 7th).
Again, the programming isn't different between boxes, it's the same box. Shift lever to the right, normal mode. Shift lever to the left, sport mode. Manual mode if you desire is when it's to the left (Sport) and you move the lever forward (downshift) or back (upshift). You will see "D", "S[1-7]", or "M[1-8]" on the dash depending on what mode you're in.

[Le Chef]

Thanks - it's just irritating that on the website and in the brochure BMW gives the impression that it's a different box.

[mole7374]

Originally Posted by mspringer

I have read all of the threads, have test driven multiple X3s, both 28i &35i, with base, SAP only, SAP + DHP packages. I spent several hours with my CA, who is an ex-BMW mechanic and enthusiast trying to sort this out, including having conversations with BMW (it's been impossible to get straight story from them) and the official story is still clear as mud. I'm not trying to rehash the arguments from the other threads but simply don't understand how, without any active suspension components, going into sport mode on as SAP only car can change chassis stiffness. I agree the there is a chassis setting in I-drive on an SAP only car which is supposed to program the sport setting but felt no significant chassis difference when I tried sport mode, this is in contrast to a DHP equipped car where the difference was immediately noticeable.

I'll be at the annual NJ CCA meeting at BMWNA next month hope to get a 'official' explanation. I do have a 35i with SAP + DHP scheduled for early July delivery. Ordered it that way because I felt DHP, but not SAP only, made a real difference in chassis control.

Listen I agree with you on the clear as mud part...BMW has really mucked up by not putting out a clear definition by default. This problem is an issue b/c people like you and I are affected in different ways...you orderd DHP specifically b/c the messaging was interpreted by you as "you only get chassis setup with DHP", where as I'm interpreting it as "DHP gives you the dampening factor added on to the rest".

I'm looking forward to what the NJ CCA meeting nets out...very interested. Honestly though I will disagree with the part where you say without active suspension the car can't go into a stiffer mode....this is really a discussion about the differences between chassis mod and active dampening. The purpose of active dampening is yes to provide stiffening (or softening) but also to "push" the wheels towards the ground depending on road and driving conditions.... THIS is the "active" part. If all BMW wanted to do was provide a stiffer setup etc, this could easily be done via a switch that just made the shocks less or more firm...this is NOT active in terms of the suspension...it's really just on or off... on meaning stiff and off meaning more comfort. Again the "ACTIVE" part comes into play in that it's actively changing things moment by moment as you are driving... it's symantecs by BMW at its best, only in this case it changes what people buy.

But I can tell you this....many people are reporting that the dynamic driving control buttons (the rocker switches) have resulted in the change in feel to the suspension/chassis setup....so what are we going to say that all of these people who have taken delivery and are driving their vehicles are wrong? Who are we to say that, and why then does the idrive include the chassis window (in non-dhp 35i models)? If it wasn't included BMW would have removed it in the software...and why then (to me this is the big one) does the owners manual that I attached previously also point to the fact that suspension mods are part of DDC? I mean come on man seriously...read it... to quote: Sport+ "Sporty driving with optimized chassis and suspension during limited driving stabilization" And again this is outside of the section on dynamic dampening. Don't take offense to this, but it seems to me that anyone who has bought DHP is arguing this point strongly b/c they don't want to believe that non-dhp cars also get this setup...but indeed they do...but what is going on is that nobody from BMW told people what DHP really did, which is the "active" part and now people are getting pissed for dropping 1400. To me the 1400 is still worth it for the active dampening part as it's a great feature...I just didn't want it. But when users are reporting the changes and the book says it, why still fight it? I pickup my X3 tomorrow so I'll let you know my impression.

User Want The Thrill has a good experience with someone who doesn't know anything about this...maybe he'll read this and post.

[mspringer]

No offense taken. I ordered the DHP because in testing I found it improved chassis response whereas the sport setting in the SAP only car didn't. As this thread is really about the transmission I don't want to sidetrack it any further. Will report back what I hear at the meeting with NA at the end of June.

Marty

[Nahoa]

Dude, you're totally wrong about what an active suspension is. An active suspension has some ability to change it's spring and/or damping coefficients -- period. That means a suspension that can "get stiffer" when a setting is changed is an active suspension. Active suspensions can do much more, but they do not necessarily. Not addressing the rest of your points, but you're starting off wrong on this bit.

[mole7374]

Originally Posted by Nahoa

Dude, you're totally wrong about what an active suspension is. An active suspension has some ability to change it's spring and/or damping coefficients -- period. That means a suspension that can "get stiffer" when a setting is changed is an active suspension. Active suspensions can do much more, but they do not necessarily. Not addressing the rest of your points, but you're starting off wrong on this bit.

Ok...I didn't want to get way in the weeds here b/c like mspringer wrote this is about the tranny and not the suspension....however...

I fully understand.....and I mean fully....what you wrote above...I was not at all saying that active suspension ONLY did the dampening thing....I was saying that what the DHP active suspension did was the dampening PLUS all the other stuff (ie springs etc) that we brought up....so yea I get it. Problem is that since this thread is about antoher topic I didn't want to get in the weeds on antoher non-related point....hence net result is I'm misunderstood... So not that I'm starting off wrong, but starting off incomplete b/c the topic was never meant for this thread anyway.

Its frustrating man b/c BMW is causing all of this effin discussion/debating over DHP and sport/sport+ etc and what the X3 can do. I'm picking my X up tomorrow and for sure I'll be trying this first a I have 35i with SAP.

So again for clarity sake: my interpretation of the 35i with SAP and dynamic driving is that you can choose the settings which affect throttle/steering/chassis however it is NOT dynamic (meaning it's binary...off or on with normal/sport etc) whereas with DHP it is that PLUS active meaning that the vehicle is changing the setup while driving per the setting you choose.
that better?

[mole7374]

Originally Posted by mspringer

No offense taken. I ordered the DHP because in testing I found it improved chassis response whereas the sport setting in the SAP only car didn't. As this thread is really about the transmission I don't want to sidetrack it any further. Will report back what I hear at the meeting with NA at the end of June.

Marty

Ok cool!! Personally I did like DHP....I test drove every version of the X extensively before buying (at least an hour or two behind the wheel of each on multiple visits/days) I have a friend at a dealership so I got to drive the b@lls out of these as well, and in all honestly, what I found is that if you know how to drive hard and can push this thing on some B roads, the DHP in sport+ is effin awesome....and I mean awesome...however you better have sport tires and the ability to push b/c the X will demand it. with DHP in sport it is a better version of the E83...sporty and comfort... and in normal mode it is setup for my wife...I didn't like normal mode with DHP at all...way to floaty. Sport in DHP was close to normal in non-dhp. Sport + in DHP is VEEEEEEEERY nie In non-dhp, I think the big advantage is the throttle and steering response.....I have to pay more attention to the chassis differences when I pick up my X b/c I have to admit..I spent more time driving the DHP X b/c I wanted to rule it in or out.

The ONLY reason I didn't but it was b/c I was right at 50K and just didn't want to go past it. Actually I was over 50K but my deal was under...I didn't want to push my deal over...I just had to stop somwhere b/c BMW makes it easy to keep adding options