[cssnms]

http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezfl...cfb884a66d.pdf

Miles to break even with the d...

The 328 - 960,000 miles

The 335 - 193,333

[nineofspades]

Meh, I own the 335i -- but their math seems pretty wrong to me.

Currently diesel and premium are the same cost here in SC @ 3.80. If i run the numbers it comes out to about 58k miles to break even.

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spre...=0&output=html

[John 070]

Not too many people over at c/d went to college. How is there even a break-even when compared to a 328? A 328 has 200 lbs. ft. on a 2011, a 335d has what 425? They write whatever gets people's attn on the web or through what few magazines they actually still sell. Here's yet another on the same saying to forget the payoff

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...al_wave_page_2

Then again they say just click D and forget about it. There are some 6-man 328 zsp drivers who have way more fun than moving a lever into D and forgetting about it.

[CAPSGOD]

This is an apples to oranges comparison.. all 3 engines deliver power very differently.. and diesel costs the same or less than premium gas where I live. (When was the last time gas was $2.00/gallon?)

BMW is not a value brand anyways.

[JSpira]

How long ago did this come out? Gas was $2.02?

It's possible the Eco Credit wasn't even available then.

[Coolieman1220]

SAINTOR, WHERE YOU AT? AY?

haha, you don't buy a 335d to save money....you drive it to enjoy. might it be cheaper to operate maybe but it's still an expensive car and if you can buy it, you don't buy it to save money

[Saintor]

The only intelligent reason to buy a diesel is to save money. Since it isn't cost effective, then it is clearly not an intelligent purchase.

Funny that despite aaaaaallll this torque, the 335d is doing 1/4 mile only 0.6s faster than a 328i (14.2 vs 14.8). Now if you never understood before that HP and not torque matters for acceleration, now would be a good time.

Anyway it is a vain issue since the 335d will be gone for good in a few months.

[John 070]

Seems like the price of diesel is more stable....today as I was filling up, it was 15 cents more than super. When gas spiked at 4.09, diesel was cheaper.

[QC335]

Why someone would opt for a diesel BMW 335 is beyond me. Who cares about breaking even? You are spending over $40,000 on a vehicle. You cannot rationalize a purchase like that to be economical in any fashion when there is reliable transportation for $20,000.

Plus they don't sound right and stink.

[AlexH]

Here's my math for 12k/yr. Gas and diesel are pretty much the same when average over a one year period. Let's say $4/gal.

1) 335i: 12k miles / 23 miles/gallon (my average) = 522 gallons.
522 gallons x $4 = $2088/yr.
2) 335d 12k miles / 30 miles/gallon (assumption) = 400 gallons.
400 gallons x $4 = $1600/yr

Gas saving $2088 - $1600 = $488/yr. for 335d
Base price difference (335d) $44725 - (335i) $40925 = $3800
- $900 tax credit
--------------
$2900 cost difference
Number of year to realize the cost difference and gas saving
$2900 / $488 = 5.94 years.

So it's up to you if you are going to keep the car longer than 6 years for the 335d to really save you any money in gas. Throw in the performance factor of 335i v. 335d I don't think the latter would hold up. Just my 2 c but I think the 335d fellows would have their reasons to choose it over the 335i. But if they said that the gas saving factor was their primary reason in choosing it, then they didn't do their math before the purchse.

[CAPSGOD]

Originally Posted by QC335

Why someone would opt for a diesel BMW 335 is beyond me. Who cares about breaking even? You are spending over $40,000 on a vehicle. You cannot rationalize a purchase like that to be economical in any fashion when there is reliable transportation for $20,000.

Plus they don't sound right and stink.

It could have to do with the power delivery. But that is probably beyond your comprehension.

[blacknbean]

diesel is way more than premium here. not sure why. maybe some CA only tax, but if it was cheaper id be all over a diesel SUV.

[PJPHughes]

I got the $4500 Eco credit on my 335d, and the $900 tax credit so it was less than a similarly equipped 335i. Also, when I bought it, diesel was $2.79, premium was around $3.09.

Clearly, the math for my car favors the 335d.

Even now, diesel is on par with premium around $4.29-$4.35 in LA (if you shop around...it can be 30 cents more at some stations), so I can't see how I lose out here at all. That C&D thing is so out of date, and it didn't take into account the discounts. So it's way off...

Regardless, I love my car. Best car I've ever owned. I'm addicted to the torque.

[ceb]

Everything else aside, the basic premise of "base price" is just plain wrong.

In order to get a fair comparison, one has to factor in options to bring the least optioned car up to the other two, adding things like xenon, auto etc, then add the value package stuff to the other two cars. Finally, subtract incentives to level the playing field. Then, you're at least comparing oranges to tangerines.

[ENINTY]

Originally Posted by AlexH

Here's my math for 12k/yr. Gas and diesel are pretty much the same when average over a one year period. Let's say $4/gal.

1) 335i: 12k miles / 23 miles/gallon (my average) = 522 gallons.
522 gallons x $4 = $2088/yr.
2) 335d 12k miles / 30 miles/gallon (assumption) = 400 gallons.
400 gallons x $4 = $1600/yr

Gas saving $2088 - $1600 = $488/yr. for 335d
Base price difference (335d) $44725 - (335i) $40925 = $3800
- $900 tax credit
--------------
$2900 cost difference
Number of year to realize the cost difference and gas saving
$2900 / $488 = 5.94 years.

So it's up to you if you are going to keep the car longer than 6 years for the 335d to really save you any money in gas. Throw in the performance factor of 335i v. 335d I don't think the latter would hold up. Just my 2 c but I think the 335d fellows would have their reasons to choose it over the 335i. But if they said that the gas saving factor was their primary reason in choosing it, then they didn't do their math before the purchse.

Add in the cost of the DEF (diesel exhaust fluid) and the pay back is even longer.

[Johnny D]

Im totally lost on this...how can a 328i that gets better gas mpg than the 335i and cost $10k less take 960k miles to be cheaper or equal the savings of the 335d?

EDIT: I get it now...I was reading it backwards.

[QC335]

This Rolex I just bought will outlast multiple Timex's. If I wear it for 34 years I will break even.

[John 070]

Originally Posted by PJPHughes

I got the $4500 Eco credit on my 335d,

Sounds like some official govt. program, but it's a rebate from BMW. Rebates are marketing tools to move vehicles (without they won't move), just like low financing, free trannies, sign and drive, etc.

Many who are able simply prefer to get what they want, rather than have marketing/incentives dictate it...

[CAPSGOD]

Originally Posted by QC335

This Rolex I just bought will outlast multiple Timex's. If I wear it for 34 years I will break even.

So the 335d is the Rolex and 328/335i is Timex

[Coolieman1220]

Originally Posted by Saintor

The only intelligent reason to buy a diesel is to save money. Since it isn't cost effective, then it is clearly not an intelligent purchase.

Funny that despite aaaaaallll this torque, the 335d is doing 1/4 mile only 0.6s faster than a 328i (14.2 vs 14.8). Now if you never understood before that HP and not torque matters for acceleration, now would be a good time.

Anyway it is a vain issue since the 335d will be gone for good in a few months.

Horsepower is a unit of work over time..similar to that of a watt. Torque is force. force over time is work. horsepower is torque. if there was no torque, there would be no horsepower. torque gets you moving horsepower keeps you moving. For you to say horsepower and not torque matters for acceleration you mon ami are very wrong. But what would you know? your little 323 goes nowhere anytime soon....just cause your fart can exhaust may add a few horses and you think it makes you faster right?

I'd be happy if the 335d is gone, value of mine will go up! Oh and you don't buy a diesel to save money, their power delivery and the way that you are always in the sweet spot when driving makes them amazing daily drivers.

Originally Posted by John 070

Seems like the price of diesel is more stable....today as I was filling up, it was 15 cents more than super. When gas spiked at 4.09, diesel was cheaper.

filled up yesterday, diesel was $3.70, premium was $4.09 regular was $3.60 and when premium spiked to $4.30, diesel was still $4.

Originally Posted by QC335

Why someone would opt for a diesel BMW 335 is beyond me. Who cares about breaking even? You are spending over $40,000 on a vehicle. You cannot rationalize a purchase like that to be economical in any fashion when there is reliable transportation for $20,000.

Plus they don't sound right and stink.

You are incredibly ignorant because guess what, between a bmw 335d and a bmw 335i, the d smells cleaner. you never ever get a smell of diesel out the exhaust. in a gas car, they smell before your cat is warmed up. as per sounding right, BMW diesels sound amazing, they roar quite nicely, go check one out. Also you can in no way compare a 20k car to a 40k car. find me a 20k car thats rwd luxurious, sporty and runs a quarter in 14 seconds that's rwd oh and that gets 36mpg.

Originally Posted by AlexH

Here's my math for 12k/yr. Gas and diesel are pretty much the same when average over a one year period. Let's say $4/gal.

1) 335i: 12k miles / 23 miles/gallon (my average) = 522 gallons.
522 gallons x $4 = $2088/yr.
2) 335d 12k miles / 30 miles/gallon (assumption) = 400 gallons.
400 gallons x $4 = $1600/yr

Gas saving $2088 - $1600 = $488/yr. for 335d
Base price difference (335d) $44725 - (335i) $40925 = $3800
- $900 tax credit
--------------
$2900 cost difference
Number of year to realize the cost difference and gas saving
$2900 / $488 = 5.94 years.

So it's up to you if you are going to keep the car longer than 6 years for the 335d to really save you any money in gas. Throw in the performance factor of 335i v. 335d I don't think the latter would hold up. Just my 2 c but I think the 335d fellows would have their reasons to choose it over the 335i. But if they said that the gas saving factor was their primary reason in choosing it, then they didn't do their math before the purchse.

I like going 500 miles on every tank of gas i put in. Keep in mind us diesel guys drive our cars. some of you i guys don't. If you put 5k miles on ur car a year than the i is for you, it makes sense because when you do drive it you want to open it up and gas is better for that but if you drive 15-20k miles a year the diesel makes sense especially for highway drives.

btw you forgot the $4500 eco credit that made a d cheaper than an i.

Originally Posted by ENINTY

Add in the cost of the DEF (diesel exhaust fluid) and the pay back is even longer.

covered under factory maintenance for the first 4 years and it's not very expensive at all. Try again....

[Saintor]

Horsepower is a unit of work over time..similar to that of a watt. Torque is force. force over time is work. horsepower is torque. if there was no torque, there would be no horsepower. torque gets you moving horsepower keeps you moving. For you to say horsepower and not torque matters for acceleration you mon ami are very wrong. But what would you know? your little 323 goes nowhere anytime soon....just cause your fart can exhaust may add a few horses and you think it makes you faster right?

Save your little lesson son, I am a registered P. Eng mechanical.

I love when frustrated and mean little dumb-asses try to make a point with my car.

Originally Posted by QC335

Why someone would opt for a diesel BMW 335 is beyond me. Who cares about breaking even? You are spending over $40,000 on a vehicle. You cannot rationalize a purchase like that to be economical in any fashion when there is reliable transportation for $20,000.

Plus they don't sound right and stink.

Right on.

[John 070]

Originally Posted by Saintor

Save your little lesson son, I am a registered P. Eng mechanical.

LOL we assume that just because the avg. age on the forum is <20, everybody hasn't finished HS yet.

I'll say it again, many out there have no clue on the significance of 5252 rpm. But they can copy/paste from wikipedia like there's no tomorrow.