471WHP/469WTQ

dzenno · 10-02-2011, 02:02 PM

Hit the dyno yesterday with my current COBB/JB4 setup. Lucky me my meth wouldn't turn on as it looks like my boost line going to the meth controller is f*ed somewhere and isn't sending enough boost to it to activate it automatically. I ended up running on pump gas for most of the runs and then near the end it dawned on me that I could've just manually activated meth using voltage to the controller input instead of boost for the runs but by then my time on the dyno was almost done

I was on pump 94 gas for the runs shown below. Initially dyno graphs looked quite sketchy with significant oscillation in power down low below 4.5k rpm due to boost oscillating. After some adjustments to JB4's map6 and user adjustable settings I seemed to have found a way to stabilize boost enough for a decent power curve but, being anal, I'll have to work on it some more as its not as good as I think it can be.

In the end I managed to try 3 different setups:

1) 2 custom "stock" maps from COBB running stock boost, stock timing and one is 11AFR and the other 12AFR with the JB4 map6 on top for boost. JB4's fuel settings all set to zero (i.e. JB4's closed loop wideband biasing disabled).

2) Current COBB Stage 2+ OTS map. I ran it on its own as well as JB4 map6 on top. This map gave me some greif on the dyno as it obviously doesn't have the misfire detection turned off which is required on my car. In its original form it runs strong on my car but stacking a JB4 on top 2-3 times caused the car to misfire up top. But I was curious what I could do with it on the dyno so I ran it.

After all was said and done, results are below. Spraying 100% meth didn't help AT ALL which surprised me, if anything it reduced power as its already running rich enough. I added race gas at the end thinking I could squeeze out a bit more but nothing changed again as I wasn't changing boost as it was already maxed for this stacked setup.

Now the most boost I could squeeze out on this setup is 20psi midrange tapering to 16.5-17psi at 6k rpm down to 16psi at redline. It'll be interesting to see how upping boost higher changes numbers especially up top. A lot of people say, just hold 20psi to redline as you're on RB turbos. Sure, I'll try it, but IMO if the cylinder head won't allow them to flow that much air into the cylinders it won't do much. We're still gated by the port sizes on the head no matter what and just arbitrarily raising boost by Xpsi won't necessarily mean more power near redline. Remains to be seen of course...

My IATs were in the 95-110F range as meth wasn't working in the beginning when the dynos below were taken. With meth flowing IATs went down to about 80F. Ambient temp in the dyno room was around 70F and, shockingly enough, as I was making changes I didn't realize someone turned the damn fan off, damn it! lol

Anyways, just to show work in progress, as it really was a totally shitty day on the dyno...this stacked tune is more aggressive than I'd like for pump gas but what I really like is Stage2+ on its own with RB turbos and pump gas putting down 450whp, NO METH. On the street here in Canada in winter with sub zero ambient temps, even without meth, on the Stage 2+ OTS map I wouldn't be surprised if this is really 470-480whp just on pump gas.

Numbers are shown UNCORRECTED, STD was correcting it higher. If anyone is interested in STD numbers I can post those as well.

In the end, ton of room to play with, more tinkering required to squeeze out more with more boost once I get my meth flow back and get the ability to up boost either by changing to a 12ohm jb4 board from the current 15ohm OR get yet another stockish calibration from the good guys at COBB, or maybe both...

more to follow...i think this is really pretty good for a lower than stock timing curve...the tune runs up to 8 deg less timing down low and 2 deg less than stock up top (stage 2+ OTS that is)...

P.S. For those that recall my dynos back in March with procede in the car it did 496whp UNCORRECTED at 19psi@6krpm on race gas and meth, 480 something STD on stock timing, 13AFR midrange and 12.5-12.8 up top as rev2 couldn't run any richer and we were worried about fuel system limitations..Ambient temps in the room were 68F..

import36 · 10-02-2011, 02:13 PM

nice dzenno!

Brey335i · 10-02-2011, 02:21 PM

Nice runs. So if I'm understanding you right, you use the JB4 to control boost and meth flow right?

dzenno · 10-02-2011, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by import36

nice dzenno!

thanks bud

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brey335i

Nice runs. So if I'm understanding you right, you use the JB4 to control boost and meth flow right?

JB4 is used to progressively add boost on top of the COBB base flash map (whatever is flashed on the car) only when there is meth flowing. I'm doing this to have a race tune setup of some sort in the interim as at the moment COBB doesn't have a way to do progressive meth setups. Its not as easy as I initially thought mostly because I don't have all the power in my hands to change things at will internally in the flash or the piggy side as much as I'd like so all major changes depend heavily on the good will of both COBB and Terry to help out and they've been more than helpful...

Brey335i · 10-02-2011, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dzenno

JB4 is used to progressively add boost on top of the COBB base flash map (whatever is flashed on the car) only when there is meth flowing. I'm doing this to have a race tune setup of some sort in the interim as at the moment COBB doesn't have a way to do progressive meth setups. Its not as easy as I initially thought mostly because I don't have all the power in my hands to change things at will internally in the flash or the piggy side as much as I'd like so all major changes depend heavily on the good will of both COBB and Terry to help out and they've been more than helpful...

Hopefully there will be a more integrated solution soon for this, but it's good of both Cobb and Terry to set aside rivalry and profit to help their customers and make progress.

If Rob is successfully using meth, I would love to see how he does it. I can't imagine he's taking the chance that the meth kit will flow perfectly without any kinds of failsafes.

Skydive · 10-02-2011, 02:39 PM

Good stuff... I am considering a similar experiment with the Procede and PWM atop a Cobb flash, but frankly with my otherwise stock setup, the newest beta methanol maps that Shiv put together are working beautifully. (Timing and all). If, at some point I do add a couple of bolt ons, I think I might revisit this issue as needed. t The Procede user tuning interface should allow me to dial in a "co-tune" pretty well, if I can get the resolution.

-Michael

tscdennab · 10-02-2011, 02:56 PM

I wonder if you could get to 500whp if you add a Procede on top of those

Sorry, I couldn't help it

ErvGotti · 10-02-2011, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dzenno

Now the most boost I could squeeze out on this setup is 20psi midrange tapering to 16.5-17psi at 6k rpm down to 16psi at redline. It'll be interesting to see how upping boost higher changes numbers especially up top. A lot of people say, just hold 20psi to redline as you're on RB turbos. Sure, I'll try it, but IMO if the cylinder head won't allow them to flow that much air into the cylinders it won't do much. We're still gated by the port sizes on the head no matter what and just arbitrarily raising boost by Xpsi won't necessarily mean more power near redline. Remains to be seen of course...

Since your pretty much fully modded have you considered the upgraded heads from VAC Motorsports?

dzenno · 10-02-2011, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tscdennab

I wonder if you could get to 500whp if you add a Procede on top of those

Sorry, I couldn't help it

LOL

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErvGotti

Since your pretty much fully modded have you considered the upgraded heads from VAC Motorsports?

Considered of course, but won't guinea pig that one though.. I'm happy with these numbers already to tell you the truth...now I just need a bit more boost and meth and I'm buttoning it up for a while

bulldog_yyc · 10-02-2011, 03:37 PM

good runs - was finally happy to see the meth flowing after we were stumped for hours but sadly it didn't add much to the numbers. Still a good show though!

Irishace · 10-02-2011, 03:58 PM

Nice runs bro, looking forward to your continued progress. Dump the flow sensor and grab an fsb if you are still going to run the hybrid setup using jb4 for meth progression.

dzenno · 10-02-2011, 04:07 PM

And here's why my meth stopped working...boost line going from DVs to the meth controller melted in the back as it touched a hot part of the engine...crappy boost line, new line won't run back there...never really liked this type of line that coolingmist used to provide with their kits

Malaka1 · 10-02-2011, 04:10 PM

I keep seeing all of these crazy numbers on just pump and meth, wtf?! I have the same mods RB turbos and all and I only made 415rwhp and 412wtq on pump and meth @16.5psi...

Anyways nice numbers dzenno!

dzenno · 10-02-2011, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turkish335

good runs - was finally happy to see the meth flowing after we were stumped for hours but sadly it didn't add much to the numbers. Still a good show though!

It was fun, wish it worked out better with meth but there's always next time

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irishace

Nice runs bro, looking forward to your continued progress. Dump the flow sensor and grab an fsb if you are still going to run the hybrid setup using jb4 for meth progression.

I ditched the coolingmist sensor and I'm running the new aquamist one...a lot better and more reliable and 100% meth safe..I don't really like the fsb because as far as i understand it sits on the pumps power wire...the pump can pulse even with the line fully clogged up as it has a fluid bypass inside so it'd give a false flow reading to the jb4 when the line is really not pushing fluid all the way to the injectors...I could be totally wrong but I prefer to use an actual sensor that "sees" the flow happening..

dzenno · 10-02-2011, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malaka1

I keep seeing all of these crazy numbers on just pump and meth, wtf?! I have the same mods RB turbos and all and I only made 415rwhp and 412wtq on pump and meth @16.5psi...

Anyways nice numbers dzenno!

Something doesn't sound right...you're on the jb4, did you send your logs/dynos to Terry? Plugs/coils/injectors?

ErvGotti · 10-02-2011, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dzenno

Considered of course, but won't guinea pig that one though.. I'm happy with these numbers already to tell you the truth...now I just need a bit more boost and meth and I'm buttoning it up for a while

Lol well considering that those heads are pretty much useless without upgraded turbo's and all that you've done to your car with all the testing, dyno's, and logs and stuff who else would be the perfect guinea.

Brey335i · 10-02-2011, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErvGotti

Lol well considering that those heads are pretty much useless without upgraded turbo's and all that you've done to your car with all the testing, dyno's, and logs and stuff who else would be the perfect guinea.

Let him Guinea this current stuff first. Knowing Dzenno, he'll be desperate to find something else to push the boundaries with after he gets this sorted out. Just give him time

dzenno · 10-02-2011, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brey335i

Let him Guinea this current stuff first. Knowing Dzenno, he'll be desperate to find something else to push the boundaries with after he gets this sorted out. Just give him time

Lol you might be onto something there

Ilma · 10-02-2011, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brey335i

Let him Guinea this current stuff first. Knowing Dzenno, he'll be desperate to find something else to push the boundaries with after he gets this sorted out. Just give him time

[IMG]

[/IMG]

Malaka1 · 10-02-2011, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dzenno

Something doesn't sound right...you're on the jb4, did you send your logs/dynos to Terry? Plugs/coils/injectors?

Ya everything looked good, I guess the hot temps were deemed the cause of the low numbers.. We shall see soon enough as it gets cooler.

dzenno · 10-02-2011, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ilma

[IMG]

[/IMG]

LOL hahhahahhah nice! I do see the end clearly for a few things on this platform that's for sure lol

Mr_PharmD · 10-03-2011, 12:56 AM

so the JB4 was able to get the a/f ratio below 12 up top? I thought the procede and JB4 were similar?

10-02-2011, 02:02 PM	#1
dzenno Banned 273 Rep 5,876 Posts Drives: Join Date: Feb 2006 iTrader: (1)	471WHP/469WTQ - COBB/JB4 on Pump 94 Gas Hit the dyno yesterday with my current COBB/JB4 setup. Lucky me my meth wouldn't turn on as it looks like my boost line going to the meth controller is fed somewhere and isn't sending enough boost to it to activate it automatically. I ended up running on pump gas for most of the runs and then near the end it dawned on me that I could've just manually activated meth using voltage to the controller input instead of boost for the runs but by then my time on the dyno was almost done I was on pump 94 gas for the runs shown below. Initially dyno graphs looked quite sketchy with significant oscillation in power down low below 4.5k rpm due to boost oscillating. After some adjustments to JB4's map6 and user adjustable settings I seemed to have found a way to stabilize boost enough for a decent power curve but, being anal, I'll have to work on it some more as its not as good as I think it can be. In the end I managed to try 3 different setups: 1) 2 custom "stock" maps from COBB running stock boost, stock timing and one is 11AFR and the other 12AFR with the JB4 map6 on top for boost. JB4's fuel settings all set to zero (i.e. JB4's closed loop wideband biasing disabled). 2) Current COBB Stage 2+ OTS map. I ran it on its own as well as JB4 map6 on top. This map gave me some greif on the dyno as it obviously doesn't have the misfire detection turned off which is required on my car. In its original form it runs strong on my car but stacking a JB4 on top 2-3 times caused the car to misfire up top. But I was curious what I could do with it on the dyno so I ran it. After all was said and done, results are below. Spraying 100% meth didn't help AT ALL which surprised me, if anything it reduced power as its already running rich enough. I added race gas at the end thinking I could squeeze out a bit more but nothing changed again as I wasn't changing boost as it was already maxed for this stacked setup. Now the most boost I could squeeze out on this setup is 20psi midrange tapering to 16.5-17psi at 6k rpm down to 16psi at redline. It'll be interesting to see how upping boost higher changes numbers especially up top. A lot of people say, just hold 20psi to redline as you're on RB turbos. Sure, I'll try it, but IMO if the cylinder head won't allow them to flow that much air into the cylinders it won't do much. We're still gated by the port sizes on the head no matter what and just arbitrarily raising boost by Xpsi won't necessarily mean more power near redline. Remains to be seen of course... My IATs were in the 95-110F range as meth wasn't working in the beginning when the dynos below were taken. With meth flowing IATs went down to about 80F. Ambient temp in the dyno room was around 70F and, shockingly enough, as I was making changes I didn't realize someone turned the damn fan off, damn it! lol Anyways, just to show work in progress, as it really was a totally shitty day on the dyno...this stacked tune is more aggressive than I'd like for pump gas but what I really like is Stage2+ on its own with RB turbos and pump gas putting down 450whp, NO METH. On the street here in Canada in winter with sub zero ambient temps, even without meth, on the Stage 2+ OTS map I wouldn't be surprised if this is really 470-480whp just on pump gas. Numbers are shown UNCORRECTED, STD was correcting it higher. If anyone is interested in STD numbers I can post those as well. In the end, ton of room to play with, more tinkering required to squeeze out more with more boost once I get my meth flow back and get the ability to up boost either by changing to a 12ohm jb4 board from the current 15ohm OR get yet another stockish calibration from the good guys at COBB, or maybe both... more to follow...i think this is really pretty good for a lower than stock timing curve...the tune runs up to 8 deg less timing down low and 2 deg less than stock up top (stage 2+ OTS that is)... P.S. For those that recall my dynos back in March with procede in the car it did 496whp UNCORRECTED at 19psi@6krpm on race gas and meth, 480 something STD on stock timing, 13AFR midrange and 12.5-12.8 up top as rev2 couldn't run any richer and we were worried about fuel system limitations..Ambient temps in the room were 68F.. Attached Images Last edited by dzenno; 10-02-2011 at 02:08 PM..*
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10-02-2011, 02:13 PM	#2
import36 Burrito bowl connoisseur 124 Rep 3,501 Posts Drives: 2015 Nissan GTR Black Edition Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Seven Cities iTrader: (1)	nice dzenno!
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10-02-2011, 02:21 PM	#3
Brey335i Banned 112 Rep 4,771 Posts Drives: e46 ///M3 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Austin, TX iTrader: (11)	Nice runs. So if I'm understanding you right, you use the JB4 to control boost and meth flow right?
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10-02-2011, 02:39 PM	#6
Skydive First Lieutenant 5 Rep 300 Posts Drives: '07 E90 335i Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Los Angeles, CA iTrader: (0)	Good stuff... I am considering a similar experiment with the Procede and PWM atop a Cobb flash, but frankly with my otherwise stock setup, the newest beta methanol maps that Shiv put together are working beautifully. (Timing and all). If, at some point I do add a couple of bolt ons, I think I might revisit this issue as needed. t The Procede user tuning interface should allow me to dial in a "co-tune" pretty well, if I can get the resolution. -Michael __________________ DD: 2007 BMW 335i Sedan Weekends: 2004 Porsche 911 C4S
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10-02-2011, 02:56 PM	#7
tscdennab Banned 151 Rep 1,809 Posts Drives: BMW 335i Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Europe iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 BMW [6.24]	I wonder if you could get to 500whp if you add a Procede on top of those Sorry, I couldn't help it
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10-02-2011, 03:37 PM	#10
bulldog_yyc Major General 130 Rep 5,040 Posts Drives: GT3RS Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: probably work iTrader: (28)	good runs - was finally happy to see the meth flowing after we were stumped for hours but sadly it didn't add much to the numbers. Still a good show though!
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10-02-2011, 03:58 PM	#11
Irishace ElevenPointFive 326 Rep 2,450 Posts Drives: E90 335 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Toronto iTrader: (1)	Nice runs bro, looking forward to your continued progress. Dump the flow sensor and grab an fsb if you are still going to run the hybrid setup using jb4 for meth progression. __________________ 2008 E90 335xi - N54 Daily Driver MHD Stage 2+ ~ CPE DPs ~ BMS Intake ~ AMS FMIC
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10-02-2011, 04:07 PM	#12
dzenno Banned 273 Rep 5,876 Posts Drives: Join Date: Feb 2006 iTrader: (1)	And here's why my meth stopped working...boost line going from DVs to the meth controller melted in the back as it touched a hot part of the engine...crappy boost line, new line won't run back there...never really liked this type of line that coolingmist used to provide with their kits
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10-02-2011, 04:10 PM	#13
Malaka1 General 104 Rep 919 Posts Drives: F30 335i 6MT Black Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Clearwater, FL iTrader: (6)	I keep seeing all of these crazy numbers on just pump and meth, wtf?! I have the same mods RB turbos and all and I only made 415rwhp and 412wtq on pump and meth @16.5psi... Anyways nice numbers dzenno!
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10-03-2011, 12:56 AM	#22
Mr_PharmD Major 44 Rep 1,030 Posts Drives: 335i coupe Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Fresno iTrader: (19)	so the JB4 was able to get the a/f ratio below 12 up top? I thought the procede and JB4 were similar?
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