[Baracus135i]

Pls Help???

Have been battling for the last 2 weeks trying to sort out erratic Meths flow on my PWM kit, and am at a total dead end now???

Shortly after start up, and while my 335 is still relatively cool, meths flow is perfectly steady at over 30 (logged upto 35-40) and indicator lights come on as they should. However after I doing a couple of hard WOT runs and temps start rising, meths flow dies suddenly on every odd run, and then after a couple more runs no flow at all??? Wierd thing is when I log meths flow its either on (above 30) or off (flatline), no sign of flow progressively deteriorating ? Which leads me its not an air leak or clog in the sytem. When checking tank levels there is plenty of fluid left, so definitely not an empty tank causing it LOL!. After leaving the car to cool for a couple of hours, all is perfectly fine again?

Haven't been able to get hold of Shiv the last few days, but Robert did mentioned the actual pump may have a thermal cut-off? I think the Procede kit uses a SurFlo pump, but cant find the model number to see what termal cut-off range it has from the SurFlo wensite? I've got the latest (1.3) Procede PWM pump

Currently I'm based in South Africa at 5700 ft, ambient temps have been around 77 -85F. However I don't see how this could be any different to running it in California during summertime?

This is what fault testing I’ve done so far:

- Have made sure the PWM relay is properly wired to the red positive power source in engine bay, positive to 30, ground to 86, Procede to 87 and wire from green connector to 85

- Triple checked all wiring connections between Procede and PWM harness and used electrical insulation tape to cover the 2 black wires male/ female pin connectors.

- I’ve got the latest Rev3 harness and am using the new female 9 pin adapter supplied later by Robert, so no loose connections there

-Removed Charge Pipe and DV’s again and checked all clamps are secure

- Checked all tubing and have used double tie straps to secure the T-piece connections near the wiper tank and also on the tubing leading to the boost switch

- Removed and tested one-way check valve under vacuum, no leaks. Secured tubing leading to the valve with double tie straps as well.

- Jumped boost switch to test methanol pump, removed nozzles and let them to spray into a bottle while grounding black male pin from the PWM harness so that the injector activated. Flow was strong and I measured approximately 1 litre per minute.

[Tzu]

I'd suggest getting the car hot enoguh to the point where the pump no longer functions. Pull over and jump the boost switch while checking continuity on the pump side. This will indicate either a dead switch or some sort of thermal lockout.

If those are eliminated, then the flow sensor and FAV are up next for testing.

[Joshboody]

Meth is boiling. Run the line from WW over the cowl. I also covered my line with rubber hose for some additional insulation.

[cn555ic]

I dunno but my Snow performance flow sensor use to do the same exact thing. Whenever the unit got hot it would not work until I shut the car off and let it cool down. I wOuld be surprised if the AM sensor is the culprit here as my AM flow sensor is having no such issues

[EastBayE90]

Have you tried touching the pump when it's not flowing. Is it hot? Mine is usually warm but not scorching hot. I've only seen it get really hot once but it was over 100 F out that day.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by Tzu

I'd suggest getting the car hot enoguh to the point where the pump no longer functions. Pull over and jump the boost switch while checking continuity on the pump side. This will indicate either a dead switch or some sort of thermal lockout.

If those are eliminated, then the flow sensor and FAV are up next for testing.

Originally Posted by Joshboody

Meth is boiling. Run the line from WW over the cowl. I also covered my line with rubber hose for some additional insulation.

I would start with these 2.

[Slops]

Hope you get it sorted out man! Keep us posted.

[Baracus135i]

Thought I'd update this thread as I'm still having no joy with my meths flow About to throw my meths kit out the window!!

Haven't been able to get hold of Shiv for almost 2 weeks now as he has been busy on the single turbo project, but this is what else I've tried in the interim:

Originally Posted by Joshboody

Meth is boiling. Run the line from WW over the cowl. I also covered my line with rubber hose for some additional insulation.

Thanks, re-routed my meths line over the cowl and insulated the tubing with foil, also then covered it in that ribbed electrical tubing (same stuff they usually use to insulate automotive electrical wiring).

Furthermore I did some reading and found out that the meths boils much lower at my altitude. At sea level, pure meths boils at 148F, and 50/50 water meths at 164F. Couldn't find the exact values for my specific altitude, but I'm sure at 5700ft the boiling points are quite a bit lower? This doesn't allow for much time that meths can sit static in unprotected lines, before the heat from the engine bay gets it boiling?

However that all said I dont think that after insulating the line my meths is boiling. Everthing was fine for a while, but after some hard WOT runs the flow stopped completely again Checked the lines and they still seemed fairly cool, and no bubbles were visible in the clear meths tubing??? Now I'm really confused?

So then removed the nozzels again, jumped the boost switch and grounded the black male pin wire from the FAV. Sprayed about 5 litres out without a hitch, then refilled the bottle twice and sprayed about another 10 litres without a problem??

Then thought the boost switch could be the issue. So I connected a syringe to the switch tubing and pushed down the plunger to emulate a boost on situation, switched worked perfectly every time and nozzels sprayed without interuption?

Only remaining thing to test is if the Procede is grounding the black wire from the FAV properly? So I intend running a wire with a switch from the inside of the cabin, teed into the black wire from the FAV /Procede, and grounding this manually while under WOT.

My only concern is that this could affect the Procede circuitary or electrical functioning is some way, any thoughts???

Any advice is welcome, as I'm really at a dead end now

[OpenFlash]

Baracus135i--- just PMd you.

[Baracus135i]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Baracus135i--- just PMd you.

Geeez Shiv, see u working late coz its morning here it SA which means it very late is the US ! Many thanks for the PM, will call u tomorrow (well later tonight for me)

[Joshboody]

Hopefully Shiv gets you pointed in the right direction. A couple notes…
I assume you are basing NO flow off the meth flow in the log, and NOT the dash lights? And when you say no flow it is dropping from around 30ish to 0?

Have you tested the pump once this happens as Tzu pointed out… jumping the leads to determine if thermal shut off? Have to do this immediately when there's no flow.

I am still stuck on meth boiling and I would test using 100% water. But you’d have to change some of your settings and tuning… basically detuning and dropping meth DC / injection flow. You don’t want water to fuel mix too high.

Anyway, let us know how it goes.

[scottro]

Originally Posted by Joshboody

Hopefully Shiv gets you pointed in the right direction. A couple notes…
I assume you are basing NO flow off the meth flow in the log, and NOT the dash lights? And when you say no flow it is dropping from around 30ish to 0?

Have you tested the pump once this happens as Tzu pointed out… jumping the leads to determine if thermal shut off? Have to do this immediately when there's no flow.

I am still stuck on meth boiling and I would test using 100% water. But you’d have to change some of your settings and tuning… basically detuning and dropping meth DC / injection flow. You don’t want water to fuel mix too high.

Anyway, let us know how it goes.

Boiling eh? I'm in AZ too and I just ordered a meth kit I'll have to take precaution as well as to where I route the lines.

I'm guessing with our 115F+ summers we need to be careful with this stuff. Have you considered even going to like a 70/30 mix (water:meth) just to try and keep things cooler out here and not make as much power? At ambient temps above 110F should we even be trying to push these cars hard??

[cn555ic]

This happened to me with my Snow Performance flow sensor. Every time it got hot it would stop working. Cool it down and it was working again. Check if IATS are dropping as usual. If so, its your flow sensor and it will be the first I heard of an aquamist unit going bad

[Baracus135i]

Any suggestions on how to properly insulate meths lines??

Am still having this ongoing problem with meths boiling in the line comming from the ww tank, its been several weeks now. Have tried just about everthing other than re-installing in the trunk, but can't seem to find a viable solution

As soon as engine bay starts heating up meths stops flowing, if I let the car stand for a while everthing flows perfectly again and turn signal lights illuminate.

As per my previous posts above, I've done numerous tests and everything points to meths boiling in the line causing vapour lock. This is because at my altitude of 5700ft, meths boils at a much lower tempreture and doesn't allow much time to sit in the long line comming from the wiper tank, absorbing the radiant heat from the engine bay. Now I know for sure this is the problem, as I recently tested running just distilled water and flow was perfect all the way when hot, as soon as I switched back to a 50/50 mix flow became intermittent again?

Now the question is how do I keepng the lines from heating?? Have already insulated the plastic meths line in thick black rubber fuel line tubing, (similar to the short piece shipped with PWM kit) and have also covered that with a aluminium foil/fibre glass heat sheild sheath, takes it little longer now, but I still keep getting vapour lock as soon as the engine bay temps get really hot (i.e when stuck in traffic)?? Is there any other material I can try thats better at insulating radiant heat?

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Switch to a trunk mounted tank and that should solve all your problems and is safer.

[themyst]

Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions

Switch to a trunk mounted tank and that should solve all your problems and is safer.

+100000 trunk mount, meth line under the car ensures the major functioning components are kept cool and minimizes the risk of a possible fire hazard from running high meth concentrations. It's only a matter of time.

[Baracus135i]

Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions

Switch to a trunk mounted tank and that should solve all your problems and is safer.

Yep, thats what I've been suspecting.. Also much easy to refill as u can see exactly how much fluid is left in the tank.

Any recommendations on what tank I can use?? Have been looking at the Coolingmist 1.5 gallon one, but not sure if the fittings will be compatible with the black tubing and if the PWM stainless steel screw on connectors will fit?

[themyst]

Originally Posted by Baracus135i

Yep, thats what I've been suspecting.. Also much easy to refill as u can see exactly how much fluid is left in the tank.

Any recommendations on what tank I can use?? Have been looking at the Coolingmist 1.5 gallon one, but not sure if the fittings will be compatible with the black tubing and if the PWM stainless steel screw on connectors will fit?

Do NOT get the coolingmist 1.5 gal tank.

[marv85]

Originally Posted by themyst

Do NOT get the coolingmist 1.5 gal tank.

what do you suggest?

[Longboarder]

Did you tighten your the white filter screws on the meth line? I had the same issues as you and that did it for me.

[themyst]

Originally Posted by marv85

what do you suggest?

Standard 1 gallon tank mounted above the pump so it's properly gravity fed. The coolingmist 1.5 gallon quick mount is terrible because it uses a pickup tube which is prone to getting air in the lines and requires that the tank be at least half full to have a shot of this not happening.

I've run a 1 gallon tank nearly bone dry with no flow issues, flow sensor verified.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by Baracus135i

Yep, thats what I've been suspecting.. Also much easy to refill as u can see exactly how much fluid is left in the tank.

Any recommendations on what tank I can use?? Have been looking at the Coolingmist 1.5 gallon one, but not sure if the fittings will be compatible with the black tubing and if the PWM stainless steel screw on connectors will fit?

I would not get that tank. I would use a 4 Quart Standard Gravity Fed Tank.

You just need to mount the pump below it.

Coolingmist or devils own, same thing.