I'm in shock.

srh335xi · 08-09-2012, 11:36 PM

First let me say thanks to everyone for all the valuable info I've absorbed over the last couple of years.
This is my predicament, I just traded in my e90 330i for an e90 335xi with all the goodies including sport package with style 162 18" wheels, when I completed the sale we agreed that it needed new rubber on the rear, the car was equipped with Michelin Pilot sport runflats so I assumed that's what would be going on. When I picked up the car the rear tires had been replaced but with Bridgestone all season runflats, I don't believe this is acceptable but the dealer seems to think there is nothing wrong with this situation. First of all it looks like hell but more importantly I believe this to be a safety issue. the dealer doesn't agree, he says there are no issues with running different types of tires as long as they are the right size. I'm shocked. Let me say this is not a BMW dealer but a dealer of American cars.
Long story short he doesn't seem to want to rectify this situation. Does anyone know if there is some sort of posting somewhere that I can show him to convince him how ridiculous this is. I've looked all over various online sources but can't find anything that looks serious enough to persuade him.

Legion5 · 08-10-2012, 02:41 AM

Different front and rear tires will upset the front and rear balance of the car, especially in the rain. Meaning your front may completely let go but your rear will stay planted. That is a recipe for being killed in a car. Don't take my word for it though I discussed this with my father who is currently a professional race car driver for F1 testing and who placed a podium finish at Le Mans and his team manager and him said those exact words.

If this really bothers you then you can present this same info to him and say you plan to take your car to the track every weekend that it rains and drive it hard and that they will be liable for potentially millions if you get into an accident, not when.

electro-house · 08-10-2012, 02:54 AM

This is a major issue, Michelin RFT are legit, Bridgestone RFT not so much. The Michelins also cost a lot more.

They are giving you something of lesser value, and an inferior product. Your concern is justified. Any dealer should know better, they just want to maximize their profit. If this post can build up, printing it out and presenting it might do the trick. Rather ridiculous regardless, what a headache.

J02 335i · 08-10-2012, 04:17 AM

I'm a licensed technician with an MTO safety approved shop in Ontario and unfortunately the safety laws in Ontario do not specify that tire branding on a vehicle has to be the same on a vehicle. As long as the tread is within spec and there are no visible cracks or defects in or on the tire it will pass safety.

Op I understand your pain though this is just a shady dealer trying to make an extra few bucks. Good luck.

DSB335d · 08-10-2012, 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legion5

Different front and rear tires will upset the front and rear balance of the car, especially in the rain. Meaning your front may completely let go but your rear will stay planted. That is a recipe for being killed in a car. Don't take my word for it though I discussed this with my father who is currently a professional race car driver for F1 testing and who placed a podium finish at Le Mans and his team manager and him said those exact words.

If this really bothers you then you can present this same info to him and say you plan to take your car to the track every weekend that it rains and drive it hard and that they will be liable for potentially millions if you get into an accident, not when.

You are liable for yourself and whatever You damage at a racetrack. No insurance company will cover you at a racetrack and If the car has any type of warranty they could deny warranty work if they can prove the vehicle has been abused at a racetrack.

Like the others have stated they wanted to get rid of the car so they put the cheapest rft's they could find to put on it.
It's a street car not a race car, mixing tires isn't desirable but I highly doubt it will cause any problem.
They are RFT's it's going to ride like crap and have not so great traction anyway. You'd be better off trying to get the dealership to install some decent non RFT tires.

MattMD · 08-10-2012, 06:21 AM

Just drive it to a tire shop and get performance tires. The dealer is shady, but you don't want either RFT anyways.

Bimmerlover76 · 08-10-2012, 06:39 AM

The dealer is simply saying money and he has every right to do so. That said, I agree with your concerns, but I think it's a hard-sell to convince him otherwise. I would just bite the bullet and refuse the rear tires and buy the replacements that match the front.

Kolyan2k · 08-10-2012, 06:42 AM

as a customer and sort of part dealership owner, i can understand that it can upset you, but there is nothing shady in what they do. its not bmw dealer and you bought a used car.

jerks come to dealership, drop the price to minimum on the car, and then ask you to put "new" tires on it, we always put used tires and we dont care if they match front/rear as long as side to side match. If you dont lowball and ask for NEW tires, then you get NEW tires..... obviously the cheapest I can get. Its not making "extra buck", its called paying the bills and complying with the law

srh335xi · 08-10-2012, 07:20 AM

This was the second car I bought from them and my wife is in the market for a new one, I also have them do all my service work on both of our vehicles, perhaps the threat of losing future business might persuade them.

monza2t · 08-10-2012, 07:43 AM

Like Kolyan said, people go to the dealer and get them down to the lowest price, then on top of that want new tires. Of course they are going to put the cheapest on. If you had paid more of a premium price for the car, then they would be more willing to put on the tires you want. but if their profit was already driven down to the $500-$1000 range with the Bridgestones, they arnt going to sacrifice an extra couple hundred bucks for the tires.

A BMW dealer might not put the Bridestones on, but you would also be paying alot more for the car.

Is it really un-safe? meh, maybe - maybe not. I dont like to do that, but I dont worry about it in my sleep if I have two brands on my car.

anerbe · 08-10-2012, 07:54 AM

If it's not a BMW dealer, they don't care what's on the car. They have no "standard" to match tires front/rear.

I would decline the Bridgestone tires and get the money back for them for the tires. Take it to a tire dealer, and get the matching tires put on. If the dealer won't issue credit, make sure you get a receipt from them for the purchase of the tires from an authorized tire dealer and try to return the tires this way - often times there are satisfaction guarantees on tire sales.

marshall834 · 08-10-2012, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSB335d

You are liable for yourself and whatever You damage at a racetrack. No insurance company will cover you at a racetrack and If the car has any type of warranty they could deny warranty work if they can prove the vehicle has been abused at a racetrack.

Like the others have stated they wanted to get rid of the car so they put the cheapest rft's they could find to put on it.
It's a street car not a race car, mixing tires isn't desirable but I highly doubt it will cause any problem.
They are RFT's it's going to ride like crap and have not so great traction anyway. You'd be better off trying to get the dealership to install some decent non RFT tires.

+1

I also doubt it will cause any problems. Back when I drove... not so nice cars... I typically had two different brands and even had three different brands at one point. From a safety stand point (as long as the tread and size are the same) there isn't going to be an issue.

Shady? Hell yeah. That would piss me off too. Good luck with it!

srh335xi · 08-10-2012, 07:56 AM

I would say that the car was priced as much as comparable unit at BMW, it still has factory warranty and I didn't haggle much on the car. If it were just a matter of different brands front and back it wouldn't be that bad but with performance on the front and all season on the back the handling is horrendous at highway speeds.

abcommercial · 08-10-2012, 07:57 AM

As a layperson, I am skeptical whether having different brands front/rear will noticeably or measurably - adversely - affect performance. I imagine there must be tire brands/models out there that deliberately put a different tread pattern for fronts than for rears, or drivers who buy slightly different pairs of tires for front and back (like larger rears). Maybe if you are pushing the envelope at 200+ mph on a track in an F1 you start to experience some differences, but it would be hard to convince me it makes much difference at 70mph in a passenger car.

Here are the options I would consider:

1. Offer to pay the actual price difference between the two brands for him to swap out the two tires. If they are indeed good-condition used (not new) tires he put on, the price difference cannot be that much, can it?

2. Do what another poster said - get some non-RFTs (agree, they handle and ride MUCH nicer). Then sell your RFTs on eBay. You can get longer-lasting, better-performing non-RFTS for less money than RFTs.

3. If you choose to stick with RFTs, sell the ones you don't like and buy a new pair.

vince217 · 08-10-2012, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legion5

Different front and rear tires will upset the front and rear balance of the car, especially in the rain. Meaning your front may completely let go but your rear will stay planted. That is a recipe for being killed in a car. Don't take my word for it though I discussed this with my father who is currently a professional race car driver for F1 testing and who placed a podium finish at Le Mans and his team manager and him said those exact words.

If this really bothers you then you can present this same info to him and say you plan to take your car to the track every weekend that it rains and drive it hard and that they will be liable for potentially millions if you get into an accident, not when.

Off Topic: wow who's your father???

On Topic: No way would i accept different fronts and rears, especially different brands!

ChasVS · 08-10-2012, 08:03 AM

You know what they say about ASS U ME ...

Bummer you didn't get a specific brand agreement before the installation. I would have expected them to put on OEM tires, so the Bridgestone would seem what to expect. Not some replacement set that the previous owner had installed.

jcarv20s · 08-10-2012, 08:08 AM

Did you notice the rear tires were crap before you paid for the car? Otherwise that's on you. I bought my 335xi from a non bmw dealership and one of the tires had some tears and bubbles and just looked beat to sh*t basically. I asked to have the tire replaced with the same type as the rest etc. etc. Long story short I checked to make sure they did what I wanted when I came back with my deposit and signed anything. Sucks man but your SOL. RFT's suck though. Gets other tires and sell the RFT's to guys trading/returning leases. You'll make out close to even if you play your cards right.

DASHOCKER · 08-10-2012, 08:34 AM

tirerack.com question and answer.

DUI Elite · 08-10-2012, 08:49 AM

technically, its fine to run different tires, as long as each axle has the same type of tire, but if you CLEARLY opted for the quality brand Michelin has, and they gave you Bridgestone - THAT is your problem. Not that they're trying to run different types of tires.

They willfully ignored your request.

ChipB · 08-10-2012, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSB335d

You are liable for yourself and whatever You damage at a racetrack. No insurance company will cover you at a racetrack and If the car has any type of warranty they could deny warranty work if they can prove the vehicle has been abused at a racetrack.

A bit off topic, but this is not necessarily true. Although many insurance companies do indeed exclude coverage at a race track, some (including mine) do not have this exclusion. They do exclude damage incurred while racing or performing in a timed event, but HPDEs are not races and are not timed. It's always best to ask yuor insurance agent if you're covered or not. If you're not covered then you can buy HPDE insurance to cover damage to the car during the event.

The warranty issue is subject to some debate. It really depends on what requires fixing and whether high speed and excessive hard braking could have contributed to it.

Michael Schott · 08-10-2012, 09:22 AM

The bigger issue is whether the Michelins are summer tires or not. There are various models of the Pilot Sport from what I can tell and some are summer rubber and some are all season. I would not mix summer rubber with all season. But if all 4 are all season, there is not an issue.

srh335xi · 08-10-2012, 09:29 AM

Michelins are summer tires.

08-09-2012, 11:36 PM	#1
srh335xi Private First Class 5 Rep 129 Posts Drives: e93 M3 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: GTA iTrader: (0)	I'm in shock. First let me say thanks to everyone for all the valuable info I've absorbed over the last couple of years. This is my predicament, I just traded in my e90 330i for an e90 335xi with all the goodies including sport package with style 162 18" wheels, when I completed the sale we agreed that it needed new rubber on the rear, the car was equipped with Michelin Pilot sport runflats so I assumed that's what would be going on. When I picked up the car the rear tires had been replaced but with Bridgestone all season runflats, I don't believe this is acceptable but the dealer seems to think there is nothing wrong with this situation. First of all it looks like hell but more importantly I believe this to be a safety issue. the dealer doesn't agree, he says there are no issues with running different types of tires as long as they are the right size. I'm shocked. Let me say this is not a BMW dealer but a dealer of American cars. Long story short he doesn't seem to want to rectify this situation. Does anyone know if there is some sort of posting somewhere that I can show him to convince him how ridiculous this is. I've looked all over various online sources but can't find anything that looks serious enough to persuade him.
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08-10-2012, 02:41 AM	#2
Legion5 Major 175 Rep 1,379 Posts Drives: e92 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: USA iTrader: (12)	Different front and rear tires will upset the front and rear balance of the car, especially in the rain. Meaning your front may completely let go but your rear will stay planted. That is a recipe for being killed in a car. Don't take my word for it though I discussed this with my father who is currently a professional race car driver for F1 testing and who placed a podium finish at Le Mans and his team manager and him said those exact words. If this really bothers you then you can present this same info to him and say you plan to take your car to the track every weekend that it rains and drive it hard and that they will be liable for potentially millions if you get into an accident, not when. __________________ Clean cars are happy cars! CANON PHOTOGRAPHER
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08-10-2012, 02:54 AM	#3
electro-house Lieutenant 24 Rep 533 Posts Drives: 2008 335i coupe Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Phoenix iTrader: (0)	This is a major issue, Michelin RFT are legit, Bridgestone RFT not so much. The Michelins also cost a lot more. They are giving you something of lesser value, and an inferior product. Your concern is justified. Any dealer should know better, they just want to maximize their profit. If this post can build up, printing it out and presenting it might do the trick. Rather ridiculous regardless, what a headache. Last edited by electro-house; 08-10-2012 at 03:01 AM..
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08-10-2012, 04:17 AM	#4
J02 335i Lieutenant Colonel 39 Rep 1,558 Posts Drives: F80 M3 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Ontario iTrader: (1)	I'm a licensed technician with an MTO safety approved shop in Ontario and unfortunately the safety laws in Ontario do not specify that tire branding on a vehicle has to be the same on a vehicle. As long as the tread is within spec and there are no visible cracks or defects in or on the tire it will pass safety. Op I understand your pain though this is just a shady dealer trying to make an extra few bucks. Good luck. __________________ Sport pack, JB3, Dci, factory oil cooler, 18" M3 reps, Michelin PSS, painted trim, black grills, smoked side markers, LED plate lights, H&R coils, Borla catback
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08-10-2012, 06:21 AM	#6
MattMD E9X > Everything 60 Rep 742 Posts Drives: '22 Corvette Z51 Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Maryland iTrader: (0)	Just drive it to a tire shop and get performance tires. The dealer is shady, but you don't want either RFT anyways.
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08-10-2012, 06:39 AM	#7
Bimmerlover76 Lieutenant 25 Rep 598 Posts Drives: 2009 335i Coupe Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Kalamazoo, MI iTrader: (0)	The dealer is simply saying money and he has every right to do so. That said, I agree with your concerns, but I think it's a hard-sell to convince him otherwise. I would just bite the bullet and refuse the rear tires and buy the replacements that match the front.
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08-10-2012, 06:42 AM	#8
Kolyan2k Major General 928 Rep 5,538 Posts Drives: 2006 S2000 Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Boston iTrader: (1)	as a customer and sort of part dealership owner, i can understand that it can upset you, but there is nothing shady in what they do. its not bmw dealer and you bought a used car. jerks come to dealership, drop the price to minimum on the car, and then ask you to put "new" tires on it, we always put used tires and we dont care if they match front/rear as long as side to side match. If you dont lowball and ask for NEW tires, then you get NEW tires..... obviously the cheapest I can get. Its not making "extra buck", its called paying the bills and complying with the law Last edited by Kolyan2k; 08-10-2012 at 06:49 AM..
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08-10-2012, 07:20 AM	#9
srh335xi Private First Class 5 Rep 129 Posts Drives: e93 M3 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: GTA iTrader: (0)	This was the second car I bought from them and my wife is in the market for a new one, I also have them do all my service work on both of our vehicles, perhaps the threat of losing future business might persuade them.
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08-10-2012, 07:43 AM	#10
monza2t Private First Class 3 Rep 160 Posts Drives: E90 328i, R52 Mini, F25 X3 x35 Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Kansas City iTrader: (0)	Like Kolyan said, people go to the dealer and get them down to the lowest price, then on top of that want new tires. Of course they are going to put the cheapest on. If you had paid more of a premium price for the car, then they would be more willing to put on the tires you want. but if their profit was already driven down to the $500-$1000 range with the Bridgestones, they arnt going to sacrifice an extra couple hundred bucks for the tires. A BMW dealer might not put the Bridestones on, but you would also be paying alot more for the car. Is it really un-safe? meh, maybe - maybe not. I dont like to do that, but I dont worry about it in my sleep if I have two brands on my car. __________________ _____________________________________________ E90 328i Sport & Prem // R52 MINI S JCW // X3 x35i 62 Mini Cooper 997 // 62 Vespa // Laphroaig 30-yr
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08-10-2012, 07:54 AM	#11
anerbe Lieutenant Colonel 121 Rep 1,568 Posts Drives: Red E90M 6MT Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: BH, MI iTrader: (2)	If it's not a BMW dealer, they don't care what's on the car. They have no "standard" to match tires front/rear. I would decline the Bridgestone tires and get the money back for them for the tires. Take it to a tire dealer, and get the matching tires put on. If the dealer won't issue credit, make sure you get a receipt from them for the purchase of the tires from an authorized tire dealer and try to return the tires this way - often times there are satisfaction guarantees on tire sales.
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08-10-2012, 07:56 AM	#13
srh335xi Private First Class 5 Rep 129 Posts Drives: e93 M3 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: GTA iTrader: (0)	I would say that the car was priced as much as comparable unit at BMW, it still has factory warranty and I didn't haggle much on the car. If it were just a matter of different brands front and back it wouldn't be that bad but with performance on the front and all season on the back the handling is horrendous at highway speeds.
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08-10-2012, 07:57 AM	#14
abcommercial Second Lieutenant 27 Rep 237 Posts Drives: TBD Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Texas iTrader: (0)	As a layperson, I am skeptical whether having different brands front/rear will noticeably or measurably - adversely - affect performance. I imagine there must be tire brands/models out there that deliberately put a different tread pattern for fronts than for rears, or drivers who buy slightly different pairs of tires for front and back (like larger rears). Maybe if you are pushing the envelope at 200+ mph on a track in an F1 you start to experience some differences, but it would be hard to convince me it makes much difference at 70mph in a passenger car. Here are the options I would consider: 1. Offer to pay the actual price difference between the two brands for him to swap out the two tires. If they are indeed good-condition used (not new) tires he put on, the price difference cannot be that much, can it? 2. Do what another poster said - get some non-RFTs (agree, they handle and ride MUCH nicer). Then sell your RFTs on eBay. You can get longer-lasting, better-performing non-RFTS for less money than RFTs. 3. If you choose to stick with RFTs, sell the ones you don't like and buy a new pair.
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08-10-2012, 08:03 AM	#16
ChasVS Colonel 40 Rep 2,431 Posts Drives: 2012 MB ML350 Bluetec Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Central FL iTrader: (10)	You know what they say about ASS U ME ... Bummer you didn't get a specific brand agreement before the installation. I would have expected them to put on OEM tires, so the Bridgestone would seem what to expect. Not some replacement set that the previous owner had installed. __________________ My speeding isn't the problem. It's the Slow Folks ahead of me that cause accidents!
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08-10-2012, 08:08 AM	#17
jcarv20s Second Lieutenant 19 Rep 210 Posts Drives: 2014 435i Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Danbury, CT iTrader: (0)	Did you notice the rear tires were crap before you paid for the car? Otherwise that's on you. I bought my 335xi from a non bmw dealership and one of the tires had some tears and bubbles and just looked beat to sh*t basically. I asked to have the tire replaced with the same type as the rest etc. etc. Long story short I checked to make sure they did what I wanted when I came back with my deposit and signed anything. Sucks man but your SOL. RFT's suck though. Gets other tires and sell the RFT's to guys trading/returning leases. You'll make out close to even if you play your cards right.
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08-10-2012, 08:34 AM	#18
DASHOCKER The power of V! 99 Rep 1,971 Posts Drives: 2007 335i coupe steptronic Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: NYC iTrader: (0) Garage List 1998 Lexus Gs400 [0.00] 2010 ebony & ivory [0.00] 2006 BMW X3 [0.00] 2009 pics [0.00] 2009 e92 335 xdrive [0.00]	tirerack.com question and answer. __________________ 2007 335 coupe Alpine white, steptronic, sportpack, etc. (gone) 2006 X3 3.0 steptronic Titanium Silver, 2009 E92 335xdrive, next.... Caddy CTS_V! 13 Lincoln MKZ? hmmm.
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08-10-2012, 08:49 AM	#19
DUI Elite ///M at Heart 90 Rep 1,954 Posts Drives: 06 SGM E90, 15 BSM E84 Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Chicago, IL iTrader: (4)	technically, its fine to run different tires, as long as each axle has the same type of tire, but if you CLEARLY opted for the quality brand Michelin has, and they gave you Bridgestone - THAT is your problem. Not that they're trying to run different types of tires. They willfully ignored your request.
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08-10-2012, 09:22 AM	#21
Michael Schott Colonel 343 Rep 2,118 Posts Drives: 2017 VW GTI Sport Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Farmington Hills, MI iTrader: (0)	The bigger issue is whether the Michelins are summer tires or not. There are various models of the Pilot Sport from what I can tell and some are summer rubber and some are all season. I would not mix summer rubber with all season. But if all 4 are all season, there is not an issue.
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08-10-2012, 09:29 AM	#22
srh335xi Private First Class 5 Rep 129 Posts Drives: e93 M3 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: GTA iTrader: (0)	Michelins are summer tires.
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