Going to the track....

Dascamel · 07-25-2007, 05:33 PM

I just signed up for the BMW car club track day at Buttonwillow in Sept but I'm a little clueless about the tires.

I really don't want to destroy the run flats that come with the car, and am thinking of just switching out my tires so I can have some fun on the track a few times a year, and keep the run flats for normal driving.

1) What tires would you guys suggest for the track only? (option a)

2) What tires for both daily thrashing and track day?

3) If I didn't swap them out how brutal would it be on the stock tires?

I currently have the 18" stock sports package brdigestones on my 335i.

Thanks,

Johnny3 · 07-25-2007, 06:34 PM

you can go to the track with basically anything. I've been on a track with a minivan, but your tires should be performance oriented with a speed rating exceeding your top speeds.
Your tires will get ripped to shreds. You can put a few extra pounds of air in there to help them a little, but they get chewed up if you push it hard (and thats the point, right?). I've never been on a track with runflats. I don't think that they will perform as well as a non RFT, but I'm running on some right now and I think I could still tear it up pretty well. If you can afford to throw a set of track tires on there though, go for it.

Dascamel · 07-25-2007, 08:10 PM

The form has "racing tires", what exactly qualifies for those? Are we talking michelin pilot sports, or something like those?

I'm sure runflats should be fine, but kinda expensive tires to chew up fast on the track.

Dascamel · 07-26-2007, 01:42 AM

Hmmmmm, thinking of maybe of also getting some low cost but light rims to also go along with tires to make swapping an easier adventure. Any ideas on an 18" rim tire package would greatly be appreciated

montreal_bimmer · 07-26-2007, 08:29 AM

all depends what ur budget is for a second set of "track" tires.... best thing would be to go with track tires mounted on light-weight racing rims...

Dascamel · 07-26-2007, 04:35 PM

Would 1k be a decent budget for rims and tires? Seen some people go to a smaller rim at 17" and go for a larger tire to save on cost and weight? Is that a decent idea or is the cars suspension better designed for 18" rims with a similar tire size to stock?

Russellnyc · 07-26-2007, 04:43 PM

$1.5-2k unless you're going for used rims.

Revlis · 07-26-2007, 05:01 PM

Got just the thing for you...

Here's a set of lightweight Wheels, 18" X8.5" SSRs. Good price, and I am not moving on them very fast. But for track only kinda work they are ideal...

Mount up some Hoosiers, or just some High Performance street rubber and have fun!

Johnny3 · 07-26-2007, 05:07 PM

Getting a set of wheels for the track is a great idea. My dad used to take an M5 to the track (e39) and instead of chewing up his street tires like I always did, he bought a relatively inexpensive, but light set of wheels for the track that he could put some high performance tires on. They were 17's that would not have won any points for style on the m5, but when you put them on at the track with the badass rubber he had on them, it looked ready to rip it up.

ward · 07-26-2007, 07:15 PM

buttonwillow's FUN

the carosel, the esses, the turn cresting a hill....

I like that track alot!

Dascamel · 07-26-2007, 07:37 PM

Yeah, 1.5 to 2k does seem like a better range. Trying to keep the cost low for more future upgrades...
Good to hear about the track Ward, first time out. Can't wait

VMRWheels · 07-26-2007, 07:52 PM

Buttonwillow is not a track that is extremely hard on the tires. Especially since it sounds like this will be your first track experience, I highly doubt that you will get anywhere near the limits of your current stock setup. Just make sure you have your pressures set properly. At the track, focus more on being smooth rather than being fast. The smoother you are, the faster you will eventually go.

In regards to "Racing Tires", this is usually in regards to R-Compounds or dedicated slicks, neither of which you need to worry about at this stage. It's much better to learn vehicle dynamics on street tires as it is much easier to recognize the limits as they are approached. Certain R-Compound tires will just breakaway from you unexpectedly with very little to no warning.

Shameless plug:
Now if you really insist on having a separate track setup, our 18" VMR VB3 wheels would make an excellent option. Paired with a set of Kumho MX's, you'll have great street/track setup for < $1500

Dascamel · 07-26-2007, 08:06 PM

Thanks for the info VMR, taking a look.

sblument · 07-27-2007, 07:26 PM

I just bought a set of Kosei K1 17x8.5 wheels and Kumho's for the track from Tirerack for about $1200 shipped. Saves 40lbs vs. stock and after 1 or 2 replacements will be saving money over replacing RFTs. Also eliminated staggered setup.

S4to335 · 07-28-2007, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VMRWheels

In regards to "Racing Tires", this is usually in regards to R-Compounds or dedicated slicks, neither of which you need to worry about at this stage. It's much better to learn vehicle dynamics on street tires as it is much easier to recognize the limits as they are approached. Certain R-Compound tires will just breakaway from you unexpectedly with very little to no warning.

Good comment..I agree.

Dascamel · 07-28-2007, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sblument

I just bought a set of Kosei K1 17x8.5 wheels and Kumho's for the track from Tirerack for about $1200 shipped. Saves 40lbs vs. stock and after 1 or 2 replacements will be saving money over replacing RFTs. Also eliminated staggered setup.

Whats the benefit of a non-staggered setup, you can rotate your tires? Also, how do you like the handling of the car on 17" vs 18"? Any other issues pop up?

sblument · 07-29-2007, 11:14 AM

Most OEM setups on high performance cars are staggered because this setup is safer for the average driver. The increased grip provided by the wider rears produces understeer in most panic driving situations. A car that understeers is more stable. But for performance driving a more neutral setup allows for less understeer and more oversteer. With the non-staggered setup I can develop skill for driving at the limit in a variety of scenarios that the staggered setup makes more difficult to achive.

I'm just a novice here so this is my current understanding...

You can rotate your tires but it is not necessary (or at least, not frequently necessary) since our cars have 50% weight distribution. Front wheel drive cars wear the fronts down unevenly vs. the rears hence rotation.

No other issues that I can see as of yet but if any come up will post...

07-25-2007, 05:33 PM	#1
Dascamel Lieutenant Colonel 48 Rep 1,664 Posts Drives: 2008 e92 M3, 2010 e91 328i Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bakersfield, CA iTrader: (0)	Going to the track.... I just signed up for the BMW car club track day at Buttonwillow in Sept but I'm a little clueless about the tires. I really don't want to destroy the run flats that come with the car, and am thinking of just switching out my tires so I can have some fun on the track a few times a year, and keep the run flats for normal driving. 1) What tires would you guys suggest for the track only? (option a) 2) What tires for both daily thrashing and track day? 3) If I didn't swap them out how brutal would it be on the stock tires? I currently have the 18" stock sports package brdigestones on my 335i. Thanks, __________________ 2008 E92 M3 Jerez Black,DCT,Fox Red ext,Prem,Tech,19", ipod/usb, CF roof and trim 2010 E91 328i Space Gray,Black int, M sport, most options 2007 Montego Blue 335i (retired)
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07-25-2007, 06:34 PM	#2
Johnny3 Second Lieutenant 12 Rep 294 Posts Drives: Black Sapphire 335i Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Bellevue, WA;;;San Diego, CA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2007 335i [0.00]	you can go to the track with basically anything. I've been on a track with a minivan, but your tires should be performance oriented with a speed rating exceeding your top speeds. Your tires will get ripped to shreds. You can put a few extra pounds of air in there to help them a little, but they get chewed up if you push it hard (and thats the point, right?). I've never been on a track with runflats. I don't think that they will perform as well as a non RFT, but I'm running on some right now and I think I could still tear it up pretty well. If you can afford to throw a set of track tires on there though, go for it.
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07-25-2007, 08:10 PM	#3
Dascamel Lieutenant Colonel 48 Rep 1,664 Posts Drives: 2008 e92 M3, 2010 e91 328i Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bakersfield, CA iTrader: (0)	The form has "racing tires", what exactly qualifies for those? Are we talking michelin pilot sports, or something like those? I'm sure runflats should be fine, but kinda expensive tires to chew up fast on the track. __________________ 2008 E92 M3 Jerez Black,DCT,Fox Red ext,Prem,Tech,19", ipod/usb, CF roof and trim 2010 E91 328i Space Gray,Black int, M sport, most options 2007 Montego Blue 335i (retired)
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07-26-2007, 01:42 AM	#4
Dascamel Lieutenant Colonel 48 Rep 1,664 Posts Drives: 2008 e92 M3, 2010 e91 328i Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bakersfield, CA iTrader: (0)	Hmmmmm, thinking of maybe of also getting some low cost but light rims to also go along with tires to make swapping an easier adventure. Any ideas on an 18" rim tire package would greatly be appreciated __________________ 2008 E92 M3 Jerez Black,DCT,Fox Red ext,Prem,Tech,19", ipod/usb, CF roof and trim 2010 E91 328i Space Gray,Black int, M sport, most options 2007 Montego Blue 335i (retired)
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07-26-2007, 08:29 AM	#5
montreal_bimmer OEMconcept 174 Rep 5,593 Posts Drives: BMW Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Canada \| USA iTrader: (6) Garage List 2006 325i [10.00]	all depends what ur budget is for a second set of "track" tires.... best thing would be to go with track tires mounted on light-weight racing rims...
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07-26-2007, 04:35 PM	#6
Dascamel Lieutenant Colonel 48 Rep 1,664 Posts Drives: 2008 e92 M3, 2010 e91 328i Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bakersfield, CA iTrader: (0)	Would 1k be a decent budget for rims and tires? Seen some people go to a smaller rim at 17" and go for a larger tire to save on cost and weight? Is that a decent idea or is the cars suspension better designed for 18" rims with a similar tire size to stock? __________________ 2008 E92 M3 Jerez Black,DCT,Fox Red ext,Prem,Tech,19", ipod/usb, CF roof and trim 2010 E91 328i Space Gray,Black int, M sport, most options 2007 Montego Blue 335i (retired)
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07-26-2007, 04:43 PM	#7
Russellnyc Razor sharp handling 23 Rep 619 Posts Drives: 2007 e92 335i 6MT Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: NYC iTrader: (0)	$1.5-2k unless you're going for used rims. __________________ 1997 E36 328is Arctic Silver: 1997-2003 100k Mi. SOLD 2000 Audi TT Quattro Coupe Lake Silver: 2003-present 35k Mi. SOLD 2006 Lotus Elise Polar Blue/Red 2007 E92 335i Spacegrau/Coral/Al \| ZSP/ZPP/ZCW/CA/PDC/NAV Broken in
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07-26-2007, 05:01 PM	#8
Revlis Now With 33% MORE Sarcasm Free! 157 Rep 3,462 Posts Drives: M4 i3 X3 Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Phoenix AZ iTrader: (0)	Got just the thing for you... Here's a set of lightweight Wheels, 18" X8.5" SSRs. Good price, and I am not moving on them very fast. But for track only kinda work they are ideal... Mount up some Hoosiers, or just some High Performance street rubber and have fun! __________________ A BMW is Just a Car, it doesn't make you smart, handsome, clever, better, cool, or wealthy.
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07-26-2007, 05:07 PM	#9
Johnny3 Second Lieutenant 12 Rep 294 Posts Drives: Black Sapphire 335i Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Bellevue, WA;;;San Diego, CA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2007 335i [0.00]	Getting a set of wheels for the track is a great idea. My dad used to take an M5 to the track (e39) and instead of chewing up his street tires like I always did, he bought a relatively inexpensive, but light set of wheels for the track that he could put some high performance tires on. They were 17's that would not have won any points for style on the m5, but when you put them on at the track with the badass rubber he had on them, it looked ready to rip it up.
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07-26-2007, 07:15 PM	#10
ward Major General 155 Rep 6,158 Posts Drives: F Join Date: May 2005 Location: T iTrader: (0)	buttonwillow's FUN the carosel, the esses, the turn cresting a hill.... I like that track alot!
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07-26-2007, 07:37 PM	#11
Dascamel Lieutenant Colonel 48 Rep 1,664 Posts Drives: 2008 e92 M3, 2010 e91 328i Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bakersfield, CA iTrader: (0)	Yeah, 1.5 to 2k does seem like a better range. Trying to keep the cost low for more future upgrades... Good to hear about the track Ward, first time out. Can't wait __________________ 2008 E92 M3 Jerez Black,DCT,Fox Red ext,Prem,Tech,19", ipod/usb, CF roof and trim 2010 E91 328i Space Gray,Black int, M sport, most options 2007 Montego Blue 335i (retired)
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07-26-2007, 07:52 PM	#12
VMRWheels BimmerPost Supporting Vendor 2042 Rep 25,989 Posts Drives: BMW Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Anaheim, CA iTrader: (4) Garage List 2013 BMW M3 [10.00] 2015 BMW M4 [0.00] 2013 BMW F30 [0.00] 2014 BMW F22 [0.00] 2013 BMW F06 [0.00]	Buttonwillow is not a track that is extremely hard on the tires. Especially since it sounds like this will be your first track experience, I highly doubt that you will get anywhere near the limits of your current stock setup. Just make sure you have your pressures set properly. At the track, focus more on being smooth rather than being fast. The smoother you are, the faster you will eventually go. In regards to "Racing Tires", this is usually in regards to R-Compounds or dedicated slicks, neither of which you need to worry about at this stage. It's much better to learn vehicle dynamics on street tires as it is much easier to recognize the limits as they are approached. Certain R-Compound tires will just breakaway from you unexpectedly with very little to no warning. Shameless plug: Now if you really insist on having a separate track setup, our 18" VMR VB3 wheels would make an excellent option. Paired with a set of Kumho MX's, you'll have great street/track setup for < $1500 __________________ VMR\|Wheels \| 714.442.7916 \| sales@velocitymotoring.com \| www.velocitymotoring.com \| facebook \| flickr \| Instagram
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07-26-2007, 08:06 PM	#13
Dascamel Lieutenant Colonel 48 Rep 1,664 Posts Drives: 2008 e92 M3, 2010 e91 328i Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bakersfield, CA iTrader: (0)	Thanks for the info VMR, taking a look. __________________ 2008 E92 M3 Jerez Black,DCT,Fox Red ext,Prem,Tech,19", ipod/usb, CF roof and trim 2010 E91 328i Space Gray,Black int, M sport, most options 2007 Montego Blue 335i (retired)
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07-27-2007, 07:26 PM	#14
sblument Lieutenant 13 Rep 427 Posts Drives: 2006 330i Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Champaign, IL iTrader: (0) Garage List 2006 330i [0.00]	I just bought a set of Kosei K1 17x8.5 wheels and Kumho's for the track from Tirerack for about $1200 shipped. Saves 40lbs vs. stock and after 1 or 2 replacements will be saving money over replacing RFTs. Also eliminated staggered setup. __________________ 2006 330i, SP, PP, fold down rear seats, sparkling graphite, black leather, metallic trim.
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07-29-2007, 11:14 AM	#17
sblument Lieutenant 13 Rep 427 Posts Drives: 2006 330i Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Champaign, IL iTrader: (0) Garage List 2006 330i [0.00]	Most OEM setups on high performance cars are staggered because this setup is safer for the average driver. The increased grip provided by the wider rears produces understeer in most panic driving situations. A car that understeers is more stable. But for performance driving a more neutral setup allows for less understeer and more oversteer. With the non-staggered setup I can develop skill for driving at the limit in a variety of scenarios that the staggered setup makes more difficult to achive. I'm just a novice here so this is my current understanding... You can rotate your tires but it is not necessary (or at least, not frequently necessary) since our cars have 50% weight distribution. Front wheel drive cars wear the fronts down unevenly vs. the rears hence rotation. No other issues that I can see as of yet but if any come up will post... __________________ 2006 330i, SP, PP, fold down rear seats, sparkling graphite, black leather, metallic trim.
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