BMW Says Navigation Error Caused by Parking in MALL Parking Lot

LarryK1000 · 08-20-2007, 11:01 AM

OK: This is totally crazy, but true:

I've had my 330i with iDrive for just over a year. Had the Version 25 update in June. I have had no problems with my iDrive at all. Nav is fine (as good as the BMW system can be -- not so good !) Perfect Bluetooth pairing with my Motorola, etc.

All of a sudden at the end of June, my Nav started losing the current position. It had me driving around streets I had never been on -- about 5 miles away from my actual position. If I drove the car for 3 miles or, it was find the correct position. But, the next morning, it would be wrong again.

I decided to make an appointment and have another upgrade to Version 26.

Well, I was off work for a few days before the appointment, the Nav started working fine. Really odd.

So, I called my service advisor. She said she was going to talk to the Tech. She came back on the phone and said, "He asked if you parked for long periods in a Mall Parking Structure."

In fact, June 18th, I just started working for Apple and park in the Mall Metal Parking Structure all day. The trouble with my Nav began when I started parking there.

Can you believe it? I guess the structure interfers with the Nav signal, even though the car is only on for a few minutes while I drive in and out of the parking structure each day.

Sure enough, when I went to Palm Springs this weekend, the system worked perfectly. Not ONE glitch.

So, now I'm back at work most of this week and I'll see if the same error comes back.

So, the moral of the story is, if you don't want to get lost.... don't park in Mall Parking Structures.

Larry in Los Angeles

P.S. Question: The Svc Advisor said the Tech told me to look at the iDrive Nav Screen and find the GLOBE and select it and it would have lines (like a Cell Phone Signal Strength meter) and it would show how many satellites I was receiving. Does anyone know where this GLOBE is? I can't find it. Maybe it's in a version AFTER 25. H E L P ! ! !

SoYank · 08-20-2007, 02:21 PM

Never heard of the globe. If you do find out about it, please let us all know.

A parking garage would interfere with the satellite signal; they're not the most powerful transmitters. But the car should have picked up its location within a few moments of exiting the structure unless you're driving around tall buildings which would lead to multipathing. That would also cut down on the number of satellites you could "see". Those on the horizon would be useless amongst buildings of much height. I think you need a minimum of three to get a location; four to get altitude.

japac1 · 08-21-2007, 11:21 AM

Wow, interesting...

rrandyy · 08-23-2007, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoYank

I think you need a minimum of three to get a location; four to get altitude.

I always wondered about this, so I took the opportunity to look it up and find the answer. As it turns out, you are correct:

"A GPS needs to receive signals from at least three satellites before it can calculate your position in two dimensions, and at least four satellites before it can calculate your position in three dimensions (ie including your height/altitude as well as your latitude and longitude)."

CnoteMD · 08-24-2007, 08:58 PM

I don't think the parking structure is entirely to blame and you should have your car serviced. My car is regularly parked in an indoor parking lot (10 story parking lot underneath 3 buildings ranging from 44-50 floors) and I have only had the navigation get confused once or twice. And even in those instances, it corrected itself within a matter of seconds once I was out in the open.

It seems that the satellites give the location, but while the signal is gone it uses some alternative method to estimate the location. For instance, my navigation doesn't get confused when I drive through any of the tunnels in NYC (and some of them have curves).

BK · 08-24-2007, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CnoteMD

It seems that the satellites give the location, but while the signal is gone it uses some alternative method to estimate the location. For instance, my navigation doesn't get confused when I drive through any of the tunnels in NYC (and some of them have curves).

Assuming the dead reckoning works the same as it does on other cars, when it loses the sats, it knows the position based on sensors in the rear wheels (which can tell if you are going forward or reverse and how fast), and an electronic compass built into the car.

FWIW, I park underground every day. The nav map moves and turns correctly when I am underground, so the dead reckoning works well and my nav has never been confused. Dead reckoning is pretty cool if you're used to "regular" portable nav units, which need to see the GPS sats to know where you are.

aasd · 08-26-2007, 12:44 AM

huh... so that's why... now that you mentioned this, I understand why the same story happened to me last week.. this is great to know... thanks for the post!

BeeEmDubU · 08-26-2007, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CnoteMD

I don't think the parking structure is entirely to blame and you should have your car serviced. My car is regularly parked in an indoor parking lot (10 story parking lot underneath 3 buildings ranging from 44-50 floors) and I have only had the navigation get confused once or twice. And even in those instances, it corrected itself within a matter of seconds once I was out in the open.

It seems that the satellites give the location, but while the signal is gone it uses some alternative method to estimate the location. For instance, my navigation doesn't get confused when I drive through any of the tunnels in NYC (and some of them have curves).

The navi on most OEM equipped cars is connected to a gyroscope/speed pulse to determine direction/distance that is traveled when there is a lack of satellite reception.

steverodu2 · 08-27-2007, 05:32 AM

Yes, sounds weird, but could be correct. If you're parked in a structure with a metal frame, it can throw off the GPS signal in one or more directions due to interference between the metal frame and the signal. Occassionally, happens in aircraft equipped with GPS, even though most of the time most aircraft don't start inside of a structure (except for military aircraft, where I've seen this happen a number of times).

08-20-2007, 11:01 AM	#1
LarryK1000 Larry from Los Angeles 14 Rep 296 Posts Drives: 2006 330i Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Los Angeles (SFV) iTrader: (0)	BMW Says Navigation Error Caused by Parking in MALL Parking Lot OK: This is totally crazy, but true: I've had my 330i with iDrive for just over a year. Had the Version 25 update in June. I have had no problems with my iDrive at all. Nav is fine (as good as the BMW system can be -- not so good !) Perfect Bluetooth pairing with my Motorola, etc. All of a sudden at the end of June, my Nav started losing the current position. It had me driving around streets I had never been on -- about 5 miles away from my actual position. If I drove the car for 3 miles or, it was find the correct position. But, the next morning, it would be wrong again. I decided to make an appointment and have another upgrade to Version 26. Well, I was off work for a few days before the appointment, the Nav started working fine. Really odd. So, I called my service advisor. She said she was going to talk to the Tech. She came back on the phone and said, "He asked if you parked for long periods in a Mall Parking Structure." In fact, June 18th, I just started working for Apple and park in the Mall Metal Parking Structure all day. The trouble with my Nav began when I started parking there. Can you believe it? I guess the structure interfers with the Nav signal, even though the car is only on for a few minutes while I drive in and out of the parking structure each day. Sure enough, when I went to Palm Springs this weekend, the system worked perfectly. Not ONE glitch. So, now I'm back at work most of this week and I'll see if the same error comes back. So, the moral of the story is, if you don't want to get lost.... don't park in Mall Parking Structures. Larry in Los Angeles P.S. Question: The Svc Advisor said the Tech told me to look at the iDrive Nav Screen and find the GLOBE and select it and it would have lines (like a Cell Phone Signal Strength meter) and it would show how many satellites I was receiving. Does anyone know where this GLOBE is? I can't find it. Maybe it's in a version AFTER 25. H E L P ! ! !
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08-20-2007, 02:21 PM	#2
SoYank Major General 571 Rep 7,519 Posts Drives: 2009 E90 335i MT Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Vinton, Virginia iTrader: (1) Garage List 2009 BMW E90 335i S ... [9.00]	Never heard of the globe. If you do find out about it, please let us all know. A parking garage would interfere with the satellite signal; they're not the most powerful transmitters. But the car should have picked up its location within a few moments of exiting the structure unless you're driving around tall buildings which would lead to multipathing. That would also cut down on the number of satellites you could "see". Those on the horizon would be useless amongst buildings of much height. I think you need a minimum of three to get a location; four to get altitude. __________________ **2009 E90 335i Montego Blue · Black Leather · Burl Walnut · 6MT · US Spec** SatNav • ZPP • ZCW • 6FL • TPMS • iDrive • PDC • HWS • Xenons • BMW Assist • Power Rear Sunshade • Logic 7 European Taillights • Rear Foglamp • OEM Alarm • PicoTray • DataToys XM-DVR • Multi-view Processor Quaife ATB LSD • Short Shift Knob • Hartge Anti-Roll Bars • AP Racing Front Brakes • 19" Style 269
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08-21-2007, 11:21 AM	#3
japac1 Major 21 Rep 1,100 Posts Drives: 2015 M4 Join Date: May 2007 Location: Keller, TX iTrader: (0) Garage List 2007 335xi [0.00]	Wow, interesting... __________________ [FONT="Garamond"]2007 E90 335 xi, Monaco Blue, Beige, Prem, Cold, Step, Navi, Sat, iPod
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08-24-2007, 08:58 PM	#5
CnoteMD Commander in Chief 37 Rep 1,034 Posts Drives: 2008 BMW 535i Join Date: May 2005 Location: Atlanta, GA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 M5 [0.00] 2006 330i [0.00]	I don't think the parking structure is entirely to blame and you should have your car serviced. My car is regularly parked in an indoor parking lot (10 story parking lot underneath 3 buildings ranging from 44-50 floors) and I have only had the navigation get confused once or twice. And even in those instances, it corrected itself within a matter of seconds once I was out in the open. It seems that the satellites give the location, but while the signal is gone it uses some alternative method to estimate the location. For instance, my navigation doesn't get confused when I drive through any of the tunnels in NYC (and some of them have curves). __________________ 2008 BMW 535i Space Gray, Black Leather, Dark Bamboo Trim\| Sport Automatic with Paddles \| Sport Package 2008 BMW M5 (gone, but not forgotten) Space Gray, Silverstone Merino Leather, Madeira Walnut Wood Trim \| 7speed SMG \| All options Mods: Corsa Exhaust \| RPI Ram Air Intake \| H&R Sport Springs \| Rogue Engineering 12mm spacers
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08-26-2007, 12:44 AM	#7
aasd Private First Class 13 Rep 115 Posts Drives: BMW 335i Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: CA iTrader: (0)	huh... so that's why... now that you mentioned this, I understand why the same story happened to me last week.. this is great to know... thanks for the post!
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08-27-2007, 05:32 AM	#9
steverodu2 Enlisted Member 6 Rep 36 Posts Drives: '07 BMW 335i Coupe -- Rott!! Join Date: May 2007 Location: KMC, Germany iTrader: (0)	Yes, sounds weird, but could be correct. If you're parked in a structure with a metal frame, it can throw off the GPS signal in one or more directions due to interference between the metal frame and the signal. Occassionally, happens in aircraft equipped with GPS, even though most of the time most aircraft don't start inside of a structure (except for military aircraft, where I've seen this happen a number of times).
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