[CMC950]

Which one would you buy and why?

(I've got up to £27K to spend on a nearly new one (which will be an M Sport with Leather).

Thanks in advance for your opinons.

[stressdoc]

I like the 320d for its astonishing efficiency, and the 335d & 335 for their awesome power. 330d would be my next choice, especially if you want the steptronic. M-sport is key. Can't go wrong with any of them, the 325 is lighter, the diesels can be chipped, ... Tough choice. Tourings rock.

[aspiring335]

Perhaps it's my old age, but I'd be tempted to go with the 320d. Fantastic economy, decent pace and much more character than any other 4-cyl diesel. The 325d is probably the least appealing. It's not a big jump to the 330d and the fuel economy penalty is tiny, so why bother?

I'd love a few days playing with the monster torque of the 335d but I think it's overkill and the real-world fuel economy is not very diesel-like...

PS: I love tourings...

[dagjohnsen]

Originally Posted by stressdoc

I like the 320d for its astonishing efficiency, and the 335d & 335 for their awesome power. 330d would be my next choice, especially if you want the steptronic. M-sport is key. Can't go wrong with any of them, the 325 is lighter, the diesels can be chipped, ... Tough choice. Tourings rock.

The 325d can be remapped by Hartge to excactly the same performance as the 330d. 271 HP and 592 NM

as a UK buyer i'd go for the new 272 bhp 330i. cheaper than the 330d, as fast on the sprint as the 335d and nearly the same mpg as all the 6 cylinder diesels....

If I wanted a 4 cylinder it would be the 320d. downsides other than engine note and performance are no dsc+ and no active cruise option.

with internet discount you could get a manual 330i SE tourer with leather brand new for around 28k!

[dagjohnsen]

Originally Posted by eaglesrest

as a UK buyer i'd go for the new 272 bhp 330i. cheaper than the 330d, as fast on the sprint as the 335d and nearly the same mpg as all the 6 cylinder diesels....

If I wanted a 4 cylinder it would be the 320d. downsides other than engine note and performance are no dsc+ and no active cruise option.

with internet discount you could get a manual 330i SE tourer with leather brand new for around 28k!

330i does lack low end torque. Whats the price of a 325d compared to a 330i in the UK? In Norway it is a 23.000 euro difference

Originally Posted by dagjohnsen

330i does lack low end torque. Whats the price of a 325d compared to a 330i in the UK? In Norway it is a 23.000 euro difference

On deal it's about £700 GBP more for the 330i if your buying Xenons and metallic, but it is 1.3 seconds faster on the 0-62 mph (auto), and no low end turbo lag.

Horses for courses. I prefer the smooth silky revs of a petrol across the range as opposed to the torquey lumpy single turbo diesel. Plus the new 330i should sound sweet. On the other hand, the diesel should depreciate less and it can always be chipped.

[dagjohnsen]

Originally Posted by eaglesrest

On deal it's about £700 GBP more for the 330i if your buying Xenons and metallic, but it is 1.3 seconds faster on the 0-62 mph (auto), and no low end turbo lag.

Horses for courses. I prefer the smooth silky revs of a petrol across the range as opposed to the torquey lumpy single turbo diesel. Plus the new 330i should sound sweet. On the other hand, the diesel should depreciate less and it can always be chipped.

There is no doubt that the petrol engines are totally superior when it comes to smoothness and sweet sound! (espesially if you buy a sport exhaust!)
But I really find the lack of low end torque very irritating, having had 3 of those engines the last 7 years. Its not a problem when I drive the Nurburgring, you will find yourself past 4500 rpm 99% of the time, but in everyday driving the petrol engines glorious revrange between 4500 and 7000 rpm are not that accessable. Its been bugging me for years, dreaming of a turbo now and then :-)
The six cylinder diesels deliver a broad and accessable revrange that pulls hard from below 1500 rpm up to at least 4500 rpm, and thats where you will find yourself in everyday driving. So it feels strong all the time, not only when you whip the car like a racingdriver. And I would disagree that these 6 cylinder diesels are torquey or lumpy, they pull hard to 5000 rpm, without the ketchup effect of smaller diesels.
The 4 pot diesels have a flaw imho because they only seem to work very well between 2000-4000 rpm, so a quite narrow band of revs, and especially the lack of efficiency below 2000 rpm are very annoying. Waiting for my new car I have rented a E91 318d 122 hp and a Volvo V50 109 hp diesel. Actually the Volvo engine is the best one:mad:

[CMC950]

Cheers for the replies so far.

I agree that the 325d is the least appealing. Might as well get the 330d, whereas with the petrols, there are considerations between the 325i and the 330i - i.e. a noticeable difference in performance and economy but a difference in second hand price!

I am only after a nearly new car, so can't get the 272bhp 330i - What is the 2006 330i engine like - I think its 254bhp?

[dagjohnsen]

Originally Posted by CMC950

Cheers for the replies so far.

I agree that the 325d is the least appealing. Might as well get the 330d, whereas with the petrols, there are considerations between the 325i and the 330i - i.e. a noticeable difference in performance and economy but a difference in second hand price!

I am only after a nearly new car, so can't get the 272bhp 330i - What is the 2006 330i engine like - I think its 254bhp?

Its strange how you can say the 325d is the least appealing, considering the fact its cheaper than the 330d and has excactly the same engine!

And with the Hartge chip, you will get 271 HP.........

Of course, if your not into chiptuning, the 330d is the best choice I guess.

But choosing a 330i and not going for the real deal called 335i with one of the greatest engines ever beats me.

[CMC950]

Originally Posted by dagjohnsen

Its strange how you can say the 325d is the least appealing, considering the fact its cheaper than the 330d and has excactly the same engine!

And with the Hartge chip, you will get 271 HP.........

Of course, if your not into chiptuning, the 330d is the best choice I guess.

But choosing a 330i and not going for the real deal called 335i with one of the greatest engines ever beats me.

I can't afford the 335i numb nuts! My question wasn't which is the best car money no object, I could answer that for myself, thanks!

But interested as to why you seem to prefer the 330d to the 330i.

[CMC950]

Originally Posted by dagjohnsen

There is no doubt that the petrol engines are totally superior when it comes to smoothness and sweet sound! (espesially if you buy a sport exhaust!)
But I really find the lack of low end torque very irritating, having had 3 of those engines the last 7 years. Its not a problem when I drive the Nurburgring, you will find yourself past 4500 rpm 99% of the time, but in everyday driving the petrol engines glorious revrange between 4500 and 7000 rpm are not that accessable. Its been bugging me for years, dreaming of a turbo now and then :-)
The six cylinder diesels deliver a broad and accessable revrange that pulls hard from below 1500 rpm up to at least 4500 rpm, and thats where you will find yourself in everyday driving. So it feels strong all the time, not only when you whip the car like a racingdriver. And I would disagree that these 6 cylinder diesels are torquey or lumpy, they pull hard to 5000 rpm, without the ketchup effect of smaller diesels.
The 4 pot diesels have a flaw imho because they only seem to work very well between 2000-4000 rpm, so a quite narrow band of revs, and especially the lack of efficiency below 2000 rpm are very annoying. Waiting for my new car I have rented a E91 318d 122 hp and a Volvo V50 109 hp diesel. Actually the Volvo engine is the best one:mad:

Don't really understand how all this unavailable grunt talk isn't solved by changing gear, isn't that what the gearbox is for?

[dagjohnsen]

Originally Posted by CMC950

Don't really understand how all this unavailable grunt talk isn't solved by changing gear, isn't that what the gearbox is for?

Well, if you drive like its trackday constantly its not a problem.
And using first gear all the time is really not nice.

For me its natural to keep the car in second gear through a sharp turn driving 30 km per hour instead of having to use 1st gear (which can seem quite extreme and also stressfull for everyday driving) you have a "problem" because when you exit the turn it will take a while before the engine gets into the sweet range where it accellerates hard. And if the speed limit is 60-70 km per hour, you will actually never get that rush

This happens a lot in daily driving and it has been pissing me off for years since I have had BMW straight sixes the last 7 years and the result have been speeding up to 100 km per hour in places where I really shouldnt have, just to get the rush
With a pertol or diesel turbo engine or a nice V8 like the new M3, you will get that rush accellerating from 30-70.
And with the 4 pot diesels you do have a problem keeping the car in 2.nd gear because reality is that you often go as low as 1000-1200 rpm in many turns, and these engines are really sad below 1800 rpms, so a good idea for these engines is automatic gearbox, even if I hate it.

Or just drive like its trackday all day long:rocks:

Originally Posted by dagjohnsen

But choosing a 330i and not going for the real deal called 335i with one of the greatest engines ever beats me.

Try an extra £2000 purchase cost, much higher emissions and 8-9mpg worse off on the combined cycle. It's a lot more expensive for 0.5 sec on the 0-62.

For me the new 330i is more efficient, but I wouldn't criticise anyone who wanted the 335i! It's a cracking car just not for me.

CMC, I think your budget might just about stretch to a new 330i SE, 325i Sport or 325d SE. I would get the new 330i if you can afford it, but failing that I'd go for a used 330d.

Try www.drivethedeal.com, you might be surprised what you can afford brand new. Compare the AUC nearly new with the new model prices and if it's close I'd go for a new one. Once the new EfficientDynamics models start filtering into the used market it will most likely have a negative impact on the older models depreciation. Good luck

[Nohedes]

Originally Posted by eaglesrest

On deal it's about £700 GBP more for the 330i if your buying Xenons and metallic, but it is 1.3 seconds faster on the 0-62 mph (auto), and no low end turbo lag.

Horses for courses. I prefer the smooth silky revs of a petrol across the range as opposed to the torquey lumpy single turbo diesel. Plus the new 330i should sound sweet. On the other hand, the diesel should depreciate less and it can always be chipped.

I test drove an E93 330i the other day and the engine didn't sound as good as the E90 330i engine (pre-2008MY). I was really suprised at the amount of difference -the engine note is still ok, but nowhere near as good at the top end.

All just imo of course.

[Insider]

Here is a good review from Car and Driver on the 330d http://www.caranddriver.com/roadtest...-bmw-330d.html They state power delivery is no where as smooth as the gas version. They also mention power falls off precipitously above 4000 rpm.

[stressdoc]

E90Fleet has a 325i, and that seemed like such a great car, being lighter than the 330. My priorities used to favor lighter weight over more power. But having lived with a 335 for a year now, well, let's just say I see the world differently now.

[voltron1011]

In day-to-day driving (especially with a touring model) I'd go for the diesel easily. I agree with DagJohnson in that you really have to rev the petrol motor high just to get some acceleration, and then people next to you think you are racing them. Whereas, a diesel scoots effortlessly along.

Nah. Petrol everyday.. diesel is lumpy, has turbo lag on start and doesn't rev across the range. Plus they're noisy. 335d excepted-that's an amazing motor!

I've had 3 3.0d bmw's in the past 4 years and while they are good engines, i was shocked at how much more fun the 325i and 330i were. Pulling onto the motorway was effortless with the auto box, put a beam on my face. I'd almost decided to get a 330d but after driving the old 330i its a no brainer to go for the new one.

There's also a perception that you should stick a diesel in a tourer. Why? its a saloon witha different internal config. Similar size and weight. Maybe some will tow, maybe occasional carry heavy loads but in reality its a bit of luggage or the dogs for most owners

[dagjohnsen]

Originally Posted by eaglesrest

Nah. Petrol everyday.. diesel is lumpy, has turbo lag on start and doesn't rev across the range. Plus they're noisy. 335d excepted-that's an amazing motor!

I've had 3 3.0d bmw's in the past 4 years and while they are good engines, i was shocked at how much more fun the 325i and 330i were. Pulling onto the motorway was effortless with the auto box, put a beam on my face. I'd almost decided to get a 330d but after driving the old 330i its a no brainer to go for the new one.

There's also a perception that you should stick a diesel in a tourer. Why? its a saloon witha different internal config. Similar size and weight. Maybe some will tow, maybe occasional carry heavy loads but in reality its a bit of luggage or the dogs for most owners

If you think the 325i engine is fun then we have a quite different idea of fun

I have tested the new one and owned a E46 325 i with SMG, the gearbox was fun but that engine is so outdated when it comes to power below 4500 rpm, it really makes me wonder whenever I drive it, how people can be satisfied by it. My wifes car (that I use for trackdays a lot), a Golf GT with 1.4 litre 4-pot petrol and both supercharger and turbo (measured stock to 190 hp) is a good exsample how I like the power delivered, strong from 1200 revs and all the way up to above 7000 revs, never a boring moment
I raced it last week in Norway and the new Jaguar XK (V8 300 HP) had trouble keeping up!
The 280 hp V6 in the Nissan Z350 that I recently tested at the at the Nurburgring is also impressive with good low end torque, even if the car has some issues...I wonder if the V6 engines have a stronger bottom end than the straigt sixes, the Audis seems better in this regard.
My collegue at work has a new E92 325d 197 hp and that engine pulls very good from really low revs (1200) all the way up to 4800, feels VERY strong and runs VERY smooth and NO noise, I am surprised that someone can say its lumpy and suffers from turbo lag, it really doesnt
He will chiptune it in a couple of weeks, I will come back with a report.

Originally Posted by dagjohnsen

If you think the 325i engine is fun then we have a quite different idea of fun

I have tested the new one and owned a E46 325 i with SMG, the gearbox was fun but that engine is so outdated when it comes to power below 4500 rpm, it really makes me wonder whenever I drive it, how people can be satisfied by it. My wifes car (that I use for trackdays a lot), a Golf GT with 1.4 litre 4-pot petrol and both supercharger and turbo (measured stock to 190 hp) is a good exsample how I like the power delivered, strong from 1200 revs and all the way up to above 7000 revs, never a boring moment
I raced it last week in Norway and the new Jaguar XK (V8 300 HP) had trouble keeping up!
The 280 hp V6 in the Nissan Z350 that I recently tested at the at the Nurburgring is also impressive with good low end torque, even if the car has some issues...I wonder if the V6 engines have a stronger bottom end than the straigt sixes, the Audis seems better in this regard.
My collegue at work has a new E92 325d 197 hp and that engine pulls very good from really low revs (1200) all the way up to 4800, feels VERY strong and runs VERY smooth and NO noise, I am surprised that someone can say its lumpy and suffers from turbo lag, it really doesnt
He will chiptune it in a couple of weeks, I will come back with a report.

You tried the 325d with an auto box? There is definite pause when you boot it down from stationary, and it feels like its winding up. Mid-range i.e. motorway driving it's different again - put your foot down instant surge, no problems. However in the UK we have very different driving conditions to the US and some other parts of Europe. Lots of stop/starts for roundabouts, traffic lights and motorway traffic - it's getting pretty crowded on roads over here!

In those conditions and with an auto box it's petrol for me now that the economy differences have been taken out of the equation. Much more responsive in MY every day driving

Driving a diesel now knowing I'm not making any real financial savings on fuel, knowing it's cost me more to buy the same performance per £GBP, knowing I can hear that clatter first thing every morning, well I'd be kicking myself wondering why?

My colleague has an E91 325d M Sport - loves it, but he admits it's noisy and lacks real grunt. maybe he should get it chipped.

Lets agree to differ. Fun is perceived so not even worth debating. Figures wise though, the new petrols beat the diesels for efficiency. MPG/Performance/Emissions/Invoice :rocks:

Apologies to the OP for turning this thread into a diesel vs petrol debate. Hopefully it's still useful info and opinions

[Khellros]

Originally Posted by eaglesrest

Figures wise though, the new petrols beat the diesels for efficiency. MPG/Performance/Emissions/Invoice :rocks:

How can you say this?

MY08 330d combined cycle 6.1l / 100km
MY08 330i combined cycle 7.2l / 100km

The difference is even bigger in city driving (which you say you do a lot).
And this is not even taking into account the fact that diesel fuel is cheaper than petrol.