[owene90]

i'm keen to put bigger brakes on the car but i am only thinking of putting OEM callipers and discs on with the bigger carriers,

my question. is will a 130i calliper fit or e46 330 calliper and carrier fit?

i will be upgrading the brake discs with grooved ones .

again will the 130,e46 330 discs fit an e90 320d lci

many thanks in advanced

[Icekube]

ive purchased some calipers/discs from an E90 330D to upgrade mine front and rear.

they are 330mm front and 336mm rear, so a pretty decent upgrade over standard.


there are a number of 330d's breaking on ebay currently, shoot them a message and ask what they want for the calipers, i managed to get front and rear calipers and discs for 100£

[phil200tdi]

335 items are the normal upgrade path.

[stringy93]

I've fitted 335 front brakes into my 318d. Massive upgrade on the standard brakes!

[owene90]

Thanks guys I've been convinced to go and do this now . Ill need the 335 calliper carrier too won't I as the disc will be bigger . Will the brake set up from an e46 fit ?

[stringy93]

Yeah you'll need the carrier aswell, the 335 front discs are much bigger and thicker (348mm) compared to the standard 300mm.

[owene90]

just spoke to someone on Ebay and the guy was adamant that i would need the hub as well not sure about that one, have you ever needed this when going for the bigger brakes

[stringy93]

No I just changed the calipers and carriers, hubs were the same. If you check the part numbers on real OEM. The hub part numbers should be the same. My 335 setup actually came off a 2007 e93 335 and they went straight onto my 2009 e90 318d LCI

[Icekube]

remember if you are upgrading the fronts you should be getting the rear brakes from the same car to keep the bias the same!

what size rear brakes do 335's come with?

[owene90]

Originally Posted by stringy93

No I just changed the calipers and carriers, hubs were the same. If you check the part numbers on real OEM. The hub part numbers should be the same. My 335 setup actually came off a 2007 e93 335 and they went straight onto my 2009 e90 318d LCI

I thought he was talking a load of bull.
Cheers

[owene90]

Originally Posted by Icekube

remember if you are upgrading the fronts you should be getting the rear brakes from the same car to keep the bias the same!

what size rear brakes do 335's come with?

Is this really true , I was planning on buying the front one month and then buying the rears the months after to spread the cost out a bit .

I have found a break set up from an e46 , would that fit ?

Regards

[bigandy]

Yes you will be changing the bias of the brakes.

Also, if you fit a different caliper as someone suggested (such as the 335) then you will also increase the fluid consumption and therefore end up with a longer pedal travel. So basically you'll end up with a brake that feels worse.

To maintain the brake performance/balance/feel that BMW intended you would need to replace front and rear brakes, booster and master cylinder.

[dest]

I wouldn't bother with grooved discs, they don't make much difference apart from being noisier!

[kevin@bndynamix]

Originally Posted by stringy93

I've fitted 335 front brakes into my 318d. Massive upgrade on the standard brakes!

Why?? Do you race it or something??

[stringy93]

Originally Posted by bigandy

Yes you will be changing the bias of the brakes.

Also, if you fit a different caliper as someone suggested (such as the 335) then you will also increase the fluid consumption and therefore end up with a longer pedal travel. So basically you'll end up with a brake that feels worse.

To maintain the brake performance/balance/feel that BMW intended you would need to replace front and rear brakes, booster and master cylinder.

The brake master cyclinders are the same throughout the E90 range so im not sure why you would need to change this? Part number 34336785665

Originally Posted by kevin@bndynamix

Why?? Do you race it or something??

Why not?? Doesnt matter the size of your engine, theres nothing wrong with having better brakes

[bigandy]

Fair enough. Are the booster and pedal boxes the same through the range too? The reason I said that is because the feel is usually tuned to the individual brake set up.

It's a fair point though, why bother. If you just want better brakes why not just put some more aggressive pads in?

[owene90]

Originally Posted by stringy93

The brake master cyclinders are the same throughout the E90 range so im not sure why you would need to change this? Part number 34336785665

Why not?? Doesnt matter the size of your engine, theres nothing wrong with having better brakes

What about the people who fit big brake kits or the bmw performance callipers and disks to their bmws? I understand where your coming from when you say each car may be specifically tuned to a specific setup but what do you do if you were to fit a big brake kit like brembos or something similar ?

Remember I'm no expert and I don't claim to be the brightest spark in dark

But

My understanding is that when you depress the brake pedal it simply compresses the brake fluid in the brake line and in turn forces the piston ( s) in the callipers out against the pad to the disc

Or something similar

[bigandy]

If you fit a bigger calliper it will more than likely have a higher fluid consumption because it has larger/more pistons ie for a given movement of the pad you will need to press the pedal further.

Also, different calipers will have different levels of rollback. It's is the 'return' of the piston to its natural position when you release the pedal. This is dictated by the shape and material of the piston seals and shape/size of the chamfers machined in to the piston bores of the caliper.

Finally, if you have a larger braking effect (high friction pads, larger discs, bigger surface area pads etc) you are changing the amount of effort required at the pedal for a given deceleration.

All this doesn't necessarily mean you will have an unusable pedal if you change your calipers but it does mean that the brakes will no longer perform in the way BMW intended. The outright performance may be improved with big brakes (reduced stopping distances or less fade due to lower temperatures) but that doesn't automatically mean you will feel more confident with the braking performance of your car. For example, you could easily end up with a pedal that is twice as long, requires twice as much effort and lacks feedback/control (wooden).


You would not believe the effort that goes in to developing the 'feel' of brakes. Don't underestimate what a fine balance you are messing with. If you still want to upgrade them, do it properly. Fit a matched front and rear axle upgrade and make sure you use the right pedal box, master cylinder and servo etc. and if possible, re-flash your ABS ECU to match your new bakes as it won't be working at its optimum anymore.

Hope that helps.

[owene90]

Originally Posted by bigandy

If you fit a bigger calliper it will more than likely have a higher fluid consumption because it has larger/more pistons ie for a given movement of the pad you will need to press the pedal further.

Also, different calipers will have different levels of rollback. It's is the 'return' of the piston to its natural position when you release the pedal. This is dictated by the shape and material of the piston seals and shape/size of the chamfers machined in to the piston bores of the caliper.

Finally, if you have a larger braking effect (high friction pads, larger discs, bigger surface area pads etc) you are changing the amount of effort required at the pedal for a given deceleration.

All this doesn't necessarily mean you will have an unusable pedal if you change your calipers but it does mean that the brakes will no longer perform in the way BMW intended. The outright performance may be improved with big brakes (reduced stopping distances or less fade due to lower temperatures) but that doesn't automatically mean you will feel more confident with the braking performance of your car. For example, you could easily end up with a pedal that is twice as long, requires twice as much effort and lacks feedback/control (wooden).


You would not believe the effort that goes in to developing the 'feel' of brakes. Don't underestimate what a fine balance you are messing with. If you still want to upgrade them, do it properly. Fit a matched front and rear axle upgrade and make sure you use the right pedal box, master cylinder and servo etc. and if possible, re-flash your ABS ECU to match your new bakes as it won't be working at its optimum anymore.

Hope that helps.

Hi thanks for clearing that up on paper what your saying makes a lot of sense. Like I was saying in my previous post what do people do when they go for aftermarket brakes i.e brembo brakes? Would they not have the same potential issues ?

Back in the day when I was a wee lad I had a mk3 fiesta popular plus (only 4 gears) and I played around with that

Put a 5 speed manual 1.1 gearbox
Put a 1.3 engine in
Put xr2i running gear on including the xr2i brakes

I didn’t see much of a difference with that but then I suppose it’s a completely different kettle of fish lol

[Icekube]

when upgrading to 4 or 6 or 8 pot calipers, you need to ensure that the piston area remains the same or very close to the OE setup, if they are larger than stock, you will be having to move more fluid to push the piston, and this directly relates to how much you press the pedal.

off the shelf upgrade kits (like BMW Performance or a Brembo GT kit) will have been designed to match as closely as possible the stock caliper piston size to ensure everything works as it was intended from the factory.